Pentax Digital Spotmeter - Modified vs non Modified?

[timberline12k]

I am looking to purchase a used Pentax Digital spotmeter.

What is the difference between a modified (Zone IV?)or non-modified Pentax Digital Spotmeter?

Is one worth more?

Prices seem to range from $225 to $350 depending on condition.

[Ron Marshall]

See this thread:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=43064&highlight=zone+modified

I use a non-modified. Consistency in your entire workflow is the key. Do your own testing to find your personal film speed and normal developing time. This should be done whether the meter is modified or not.

[Gem Singer]

A previously owned Zone VI modified Pentax digital spot meter is usually priced higher. It sold for a higher price when it was new.

Whether it is worth more is up to the person that is using it. Both versions measure exposure equally well. However, the Zone VI modified meters are able to read light directly through a filter without being effected by the color of the filter.

I really like my Pentax Zone VI digital meter. It has never let me down.

I also have a Pentax V meter that has been modified by Zone VI. I bought it as back- up meter. Haven't needed to use it yet. I'm about to put it up for sale on this forum.

Interested? Contact me.

[Kirk Gittings]

Do a search. This topic has been debated many times at lenght.

[Brian Ellis]

It will probably show up in one of the other threads but Paul Butzi, who used to be active here, did some tests that are described in his web site. I think his conclusion was that the modifications didn't do anything but you can google on his name, find his site, and see for yourself. I used a modified version for many years. It always seemed to do a good job but maybe an unmodified one would have worked as well, I have no way of knowing.

[Eric Woodbury]

Sure it does something. It allows you to meter through your filters at strong colors and get the proper exposure. Much more accurate than published filter factors as long as the film type and meter filter pack are closely matched. Most films are a good match to the Z6 or other modified meters. If using extended red sensitive films, then false reading will result. Same true for UV, IR, and other 'weird' films.

This is not to say you can't get the right exposure with unmodified meter or by guessing. It just simplifies the problem.

Alan Ross has info on his website, too.

[Brian Ellis]

Sure it does something. It allows you to meter through your filters at strong colors and get the proper exposure. Much more accurate than published filter factors as long as the film type and meter filter pack are closely matched. Most films are a good match to the Z6 or other modified meters. If using extended red sensitive films, then false reading will result. Same true for UV, IR, and other 'weird' films.

This is not to say you can't get the right exposure with unmodified meter or by guessing. It just simplifies the problem.

Alan Ross has info on his website, too.

That's what Fred Picker claimed. I believe opinions differ as to validity of his claims.

[Joseph O'Neil]

I use two of the Pentax Analog spot meters, but I have run accross analog meters that people claim were Zone VI modified. I know some people swear by them, but my experience with them has been a big, hairy "meh." :)

I think the "standard" Pentax spot meter, analog or digital will serve you just fine

joe

[timberline12k]

I use two of the Pentax Analog spot meters, but I have run accross analog meters that people claim were Zone VI modified. I know some people swear by them, but my experience with them has been a big, hairy "meh." :)

I think the "standard" Pentax spot meter, analog or digital will serve you just fine

joe

Joe,

Thanks for the reality check!

I am just starting in LF and most of the Pentax Digital Spotmeters are priced higher than I think I should spend. I am guesing using an analog spot meter will be easier and better than using my D700 to find the correct exposure. The analog Pentax Spotmeter V appears to be more in my price range, but there are different models.

Some with 9 volt batteries, some with ASASHI in the name, some modified, etc.

What should I look for in an analog Pentax Spotmeter V, and what are the differences?

[Gem Singer]

David,

While you are at it, check out the Minolta M and F spot meters. They are digital meters, use a single "A" battery, and previously owned ones usually sell for less than the Pentax digital meters. The "F" model reads flash as well as ambient light.

The original Pentax meters were called Asahi. They are older meters and take a combination of batteries. I believe that one battery operates the meter and the other operates an internal light that illuminates the readout dial in dim light.

Pentax up-graded their Pentax V meters over the years and made changes in the type of battery they used. I recently purchased new batteries for my Pentax V. It takes 3 silver oxide batteries. Found them at Radio Shack. Total cost, more than $20.

[timberline12k]

David,

While you are at it, check out the Minolta M and F spot meters. They are digital meters, use a single "A" battery, and previously owned ones usually sell for less than the Pentax digital meters. The "F" model reads flash as well as ambient light.

The original Pentax meters were called Asahi. They are older meters and take a combination of batteries. I believe that one battery operates the meter and the other operates an internal light that illuminates the readout dial in dim light.

Pentax up-graded their Pentax V meters over the years and made changes in the type of battery they used. I recently purchased new batteries for my Pentax V. It takes 3 silver oxide batteries. Found them at Radio Shack. Total cost, more than $20.

Gem,

Would you choose an analog Pentax Spotmeter V over a digital Minolta F Spotmeter if they were priced the same?

David

[Gem Singer]

David,

If the two meters were equal in their price, age and condition I would choose the Pentax V. However, that's my personal choice.

I purchased a Minolta Spot Meter F about ten years ago. Happened to find a previously owned one that was practically brand new, at a very good price. A few years later, I traded the Minolta for a Pentax Zone VI modified digital meter and have never regretted my decision.

I mainly shoot outdoors in sunlight. Almost always use a filter to darken the sky.

If I was planning on using electronic flash in the future, I would choose the Minolta F. If I felt that $20 worth of batteries was more than I wanted to spend, I would choose the Minolta over the Pentax V. Also, the Minolta is more compact and has a few extra calculating features that the Pentax does not have.

The choice is entirely yours.

[Doremus Scudder]

I own two Pentax digital spotmeters, one modified and one not. They read within one third to one half stop of each other, even when reading through filters. For many of us, this is way close enough. I would not hesitate to buy a good, used non-modified meter if the price difference was great. The unmodified meter I bought was for a back-up, but I use it exclusively in Europe now, since I leave the modified one in the states when I come here. I find my exposures to be just as accurate, but I do rate my film one-third stop slower with the unmodified meter. This adjustment was based on an average of the difference in readings between the two meters in many different situations (I was already calibrated to the modified meter).

As far as reading through filters goes, I find that the individual responses of films to strong filters, especially red and dark green, is more of a concern than the error in the meter reading. Tri-X, for example increases in contrast and takes more exposure with a #25 red filter; T-Max has a different response. I find reading through filters to be intuitive and helpful for visualizing the effects of the filter, but I have tested the films I use and come up with a set of "fudge factors" for the strongest filters. For example, when using the #25 filter with Tri-X, I add a 2/3-stop exposure and develop one N number less (e.g., if the scene meters N, I develop at N-1). This is largely a characteristic of the film, but, since I read through the meter, the meter response is included as well.

If you have just one meter, then simply test everything and calibrate it to how your meter works. As long as the meter is consistent and linear, it will be a reliable tool.

Hope this helps some,

Doremus Scudder

[Brian Ellis]

Gem,

Would you choose an analog Pentax Spotmeter V over a digital Minolta F Spotmeter if they were priced the same?

David

I think it depends on what you want in a meter. My first hand-held meter was a Minolta Spotmeter F. I sold it to buy the Pentax digital (modified). If all you want is a spot meter the Pentax is IMHO the better choice just because that's all it does so it's very simple and easy to use. For spot metering and zone system work I don't think it can be beat, especially with the zone sticker on it. The Minolta will meter in ways other than just spot metering. I didn't care about those other modes, I only wanted a spot meter, and they just seemed to make use of the meter more complicated, which is why I sold it and bought the Pentax. But if you're interested in using a meter in modes other than spot metering I think it would be the better choice since the Pentax does nothing but spot metering.

[neil poulsen]

Because of the effect of different colors on most one-degree spot meter sensors, those colors show up on prints as tones that might be different from that predicted by the meter. I think the main idea behind the Zone VI modifications is to have better correlation between the readings and the tones on prints.

Of course, it's an added benefit if one can better predict the effects of filters on final prints.

[timberline12k]

I would appreciate a little education here. What does it mean when the Zone VI models work with filters?

Does that mean you attach a filter to the spotmeter or somehow calculate the filter effect? I don't plan to use filters to start with (heck I haven't even taken my first photo on a 4X5), but that doesn't mean I won't in the future.

I am waiting for a shutter release, film and lens wrench. Then I should be ready to try my first photos on LF.

[Frank Petronio]

Yeah if you are using a red filter for darkening the sky you can put the filter in front of the meter and it will be more accurate than just using the published filter factor. The Z6 mod is supposed to make all the colors and dark to light values "linear" but who really knows? In practice the difference isn't very much and often to your benefit (ie underexposing the sky to make it dark and dramatic).

The Pentax digital model is more robust and compact than the analog, which makes it worth the extra cost. You may swap cameras around but you will probably hold on to the meter since it is the best on the market and they aren't making them anymore, so splurge here and be cheap elsewhere.

But I wouldn't even bother w the Zone VI mod, especially since you haven't been using the Zone System to begin with (I suspect) and even if you did, you'd have to have things buttoned down and tight to within a 1/3 of a stop, which very few people are and if so, they're tweaked to be so anal about it anyway.

You can just use any old camera's meter, or a digital, to figure the exposure on your first shots, don't let no having your official Pentax spot meter slow you down. Good luck.

[neil poulsen]

Alan Ross did this interesting experiment using Tri-X film. (Some say that the filter pack in the modified meters was based on Tri-X.) He photographed and took meter readings of a gray card through different colored black and white filters (orange, red, yellow, green, etc.) and took one frame without a filter and of course metered the gray card with no filter. He then developed the film and identically printed each frame.

He did this twice, once with a modified meter and once with a standard Pentax meter and compared the results side-by-side. The different "prints" of the gray card all looked about the same using the modified meter. They varied quite a lot using an unmodified meter. Zone VI included the results of this study in their catalog. (I probably still have the catalog.) The obvious conclusion one would draw from this small study is that the modified meter does a much better job taking into consideration how the different colors will affect Tri-X film.

[Gem Singer]

David,

To answer your question--

After you determine which filter you are going to use, merely hold it in front of the meter lens and take a light reading.

Then attach the filter to your taking lens and shoot the picture.

No need to attach the filter to the meter. No need to figure filter factors.

[Kevin Crisp]

I have had two of the modified ones and now have one modified digital and one non-modified digital. With one exception, both meters give me negatives without surprises. I have found that when metering through a deep red filter, the modified one will underexpose by quite a bit, so I use the official filter factor instead. I have not tried reading through the filter with the unmodified one.

Has this subject not been beat past death?

[timberline12k]

I placed a WTB on nikonians.org and found a photographer who did not shoot LF anymore. He sold me an Asahi Pentax Digital Spotmeter including case, cap, strap, and manual for $300 including shipping and tracking. The seller bought it used in 2003 and the manual was printed in 1984. Serial number starts with 1274XX. He said it is in EX+ condition and UPS should deliver it late next week.

I thought the price was fair and did not think I needed the Zone VI modified version since they seem to be sellling for at least $75 more. I know the Asahi models are a little older, but this one sounded like it was in good shape. The KEH prices were about $50 more for Pentax Spotmeters in EX condition.

[Gem Singer]

David,

$300 for an Asahi meter?

KEH has eight later model Pentax spot meters, both analog and digital, listed in their website for well under $300.

I have purchased two Pentax Zone VI digital spotmeters from Midwest Photo Exchange.

They had cases and wrist straps and were in Ex+ condition. Neither of them sold for more than $250.

I'll bet the seller of the meter you bought is laughing all the way to the bank.

[timberline12k]

I watched a used Zone VI Pentax spotmeter on ebay sell for $415 this past week. 4 others sold for over $350 on ebay some of which were Asahi. Not all of them had the case, cap or manual. Most of the lower priced KEH spotmeters are BGN. The analogs are all under this range. New Pentax Spotmeters are offered on eBay for over $600, but I don't think anyone is buying them.

My price included shipping and tracking which is normally not included on eBay or KEH. The seller has offered to return the spotmeter if I am not happy for any reason. I will wait and see what shape it is in. My best estimate is that I am within $50 of market. I could not find any at Midwest Exchange.

[Gem Singer]

David,

Asahi Optical is the name of the original company. They began to call their cameras and meters "Pentax" in recent history.

The Asahi spot meter is an analog meter, not a digital meter. Pentax digital meters are more expensive. Zone Vi modified Pentax digital spot meters demand an even higher price.

I purchased my first Pentax spotmeter (not Zone VI modified) in 1985. It was an analog meter that was made before the Pentax V. By 1985, the Asahi meters had already been discontinued.

Your Asahi meter is at least twenty-five years old. Make certain that batteries are still available for it.

[Aahx]

The Pentax digital model is more robust and compact than the analog, which makes it worth the extra cost. You may swap cameras around but you will probably hold on to the meter since it is the best on the market and they aren't making them anymore, so splurge here and be cheap elsewhere.




Are you sure they are no longer making them? I picked up a new Pentax digital from Calumet last week for $500.00, with warranty. Though it did have a note in the box that pentax imaging has been bought by Hoya. I have not seen an official announcement that they are no longer manufacturering them. That would be shame if they are.

[timberline12k]

I bought an Asahi Pentax Digital Spotmeter. I saw several Pentax Digital Spotmeters on eBay, some with the Asahi name and some without. I assumed the ones with Asahi were earlier digital models.

Here is a manual for sale on eBay. It is for an Asahi Pentax Digital Spotmeter

http://cgi.ebay.com/Asahi-Pentax-Digital-Spotmeter-Instruction-Manual_W0QQitemZ220403917926QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item220403917926&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

[Gem Singer]

David,

Sorry. I thought that you had purchased an old analog Asahi meter.

Some still refer to Pentax as Asahi Pentax.

Looks like you purchased a later model Pentax digital spot meter.