What film, lab, vendors do you recommend for a beginner?

[timberline12k]

I am just starting in LF and will have my Chamonix 4x5, 210 lens, 90 lens, and lensboards by the weekend.

The next step is to order a film holder, film, loupe, and cable release. I would like to get by with my digital camera for exposure needs rather that spend the money on a spotmeter. I probably need to also ask what loupe and cable release is popular. What other basics did I miss?

I don't necessarily need the lowest price, but I would rather not pay a 10% premium for accessories, film, etc. Service and knowledge is important to me.

What film would you recommend for outside garden shots? If I primarily want the photos on a CD, are there better films for this output? I would like to go the Fuji quickload route because of the simplicity, and I plan to take a small number of photos each month.

What film vendors and labs do you recommend? The ones I am aware of are Badger Graphics, B&H, Adorama, and Photomark. I spoke to Rod at Photomark when I was searching for used cameras and he seemed very knowledgeable.

It would help a lot if I could just observe someone using a LF camera, but there don't seem to be many LF users around Kansas City.

[dsphotog]

Welcome to the LF family!!
Add a focus cloth to your shopping list.
Do you intend to shoot B&W or color?

David Silva
Modesto,Ca

[timberline12k]

Color for now.

Can I just use a small light blanket?

I can also get by without instant prints unless it is a good learning tool.

[venchka]

Arista.EDU Ultra 200 from Freestyle Photo.

Like the late Jim Varney said, "Hot, fast and cheap." It is also a very good film.

A 50 sheet box of Arista.EDU Ultra 200 and a handful of holders and Bob's your uncle! 3 used trays for free up to $5/ea. max. and $15-$20 worth of chemicals and you're in business.

BTW, unless you have money to burn, slow down. Patience will reward your wallet.

[timberline12k]

Arista.EDU Ultra 200 from Freestyle Photo.

Like the late Jim Varney said, "Hot, fast and cheap." It is also a very good film.

A 50 sheet box of Arista.EDU Ultra 200 and a handful of holders and Bob's your uncle! 3 used trays for free up to $5 max. and $15-$20 worth of chemicals and you're in business.

BTW, unless you have money to burn, slow down. Patience will reward your wallet.

You already lost me.

What is hot fast and cheap?

Who is Bob?

I thought if you get a quickload you don't have to mess with loading, cutting etc.

I have no darkroom or desire to develop my own film. The quantity will be so low that I should not have a high burn rate.

[Gene McCluney]

You already lost me.

What is hot fast and cheap?

Who is Bob?

I thought if you get a quickload you don't have to mess with loading, cutting etc.

I have no darkroom or desire to develop my own film. The quantity will be so low that I should not have a high burn rate.

Hot, fast and cheap...he means the film is Good, easy to get and inexpensive. It is black and white film.

Bobs your uncle: Means "As Easy As Pie" or "Quick and Easy"

A quickload holder only works with Fuji films available in quickload format, so you have a limited choice, but all of them are good. Quickload films are considerably more expensive than standard sheet films of the same emulsion.

Standard 4x5 sheet film offers you the most choice, there is no cutting, it comes cut to the correct size for loading in standard 4x5 cut-film holders. Yes, you would have to load and unload the holders in a dark room (or changing bag) but you save a considerable amount of money. I'm sure others can recommend good places to send your film for development. Most people who do black and white process their own film. It isn't hard. Color film is often sent out.

[Doug Dolde]

I found Photocraft to be a great lab with reasonable E6 prices.

http://www.photocraftlab.com

[venchka]

Thanks Gene.

Back on topic.

Which would you rather do: Screw up $0.50/sheet film or $10/sheet film? Starting out you will screw up. Granted, QuickLoads might reduce the number of screw ups, but they eliminate screw ups. Start slow. Start cheap. When the screw ups have been reduced to a manageable number, then by all means use the QuickLoads.

Did you read any of the articles on the Large Format home page? Did you read any books on large format photography?

[Ron Marshall]

Since you want to do color, it will run you about $4 a sheet, developing included ($5 if you use Quickloads).

The current color neg films have good exposure latitude, fine grain and scan well.

Fuji Pro 160 or Kodak Portra 160.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/396037-REG/Fujifilm_15474751_Pro_160S_4x5_Professional.html

http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=605

[timberline12k]

Hot, fast and cheap...he means the film is Good, easy to get and inexpensive. It is black and white film.

Bobs your uncle: Means "As Easy As Pie" or "Quick and Easy"

A quickload holder only works with Fuji films available in quickload format, so you have a limited choice, but all of them are good. Quickload films are considerably more expensive than standard sheet films of the same emulsion.

Standard 4x5 sheet film offers you the most choice, there is no cutting, it comes cut to the correct size for loading in standard 4x5 cut-film holders. Yes, you would have to load and unload the holders in a dark room (or changing bag) but you save a considerable amount of money. I'm sure others can recommend good places to send your film for development. Most people who do black and white process their own film. It isn't hard. Color film is often sent out.

That helps.

Can most beginners handle standard 4X5 cut film holders?

I am more interested in simplicity and don't mind adding $1 per photo if it is quickload specific.

I thought Bob was a guy at one of the labs that gave you 3 free used trays if you buy a box of film.:o

I have not developed black and white since I was in a photography class in high school in the late 70's.

[Ron Marshall]

That helps.

Can most beginners handle standard 4X5 cut film holders?


I have not developed black and white since I was in a photography class in high school in the late 70's.

b/w film is very easy to develop. Can be done in trays in a darkroom, or in a daylight tank.

Film holders are easy to load. Lots available used at good prices. If you only use Readyloads you limit you choice of film.

[Oren Grad]

Can most beginners handle standard 4X5 cut film holders?

Loading 4x5 holders is not hard at all. When you're getting started, the thing to do is to sacrifice one sheet of film and practice loading in the light, where you can see what you're doing, how the film fits in the holder, how the darkslide goes in and out, how the flap works, etc. Once you're comfortable with the feel of the process, you turn out the lights and keep practicing until doing it entirely by feel becomes comfortable. With any reasonable amount of manual dexterity, you should get the hang of it very quickly.

[Gene McCluney]

That helps.

Can most beginners handle standard 4X5 cut film holders?

I am more interested in simplicity and don't mind adding $1 per photo if it is quickload specific.

I thought Bob was a guy at one of the labs that gave you 3 free used trays if you buy a box of film.:o

I have not developed black and white since I was in a photography class in high school in the late 70's.

Most people can easily manage standard 4x5 cut film holders. It is not hard to load them. In fact somewhere on the web there is a video tutorial on this. Perhaps someone can provide a link. The film is notched on one corner, so you can easily in the dark identify which side is the emulsion side.

In the beginning you will make mistakes, errors, etc. You need to shoot a bunch of film to get "good" at a given format. Buying inexpensive black and white film and shooting a bunch of it, and developing it yourself (if you have even a small area to do this) is greatly rewarding and will benefit your skill in shooting in the long run. Black and white 4x5 scans really well on consumer film scanners, such as the flatbed Epson scanners that do film.

As far as using another camera as a light meter. It can work fine. I use my Leica M6 as a light meter for my Large Format work, but I also shoot a slide of every shot I do on large format, so I have the camera along for that reason also. Digital cameras may not give you an exposure reading that can directly relate to your large format work, and of course you have to consider "bellows factor" if you are doing close-up work. The closer you focus, the more "compensation" you have to give your exposure, exposing longer and longer for the same exposure on the film as you get closer and closer to the subject.

[timberline12k]

Most people can easily manage standard 4x5 cut film holders. It is not hard to load them. In fact somewhere on the web there is a video tutorial on this. Perhaps someone can provide a link.

In the beginning you will make mistakes, errors, etc. You need to shoot a bunch of film to get "good" at a given format. Buying inexpensive black and white film and shooting a bunch of it, and developing it yourself (if you have even a small area to do this) is greatly rewarding and will benefit your skill in shooting in the long run. Black and white 4x5 scans really well on consumer film scanners.

Ok, you guys convinced me. I will give standard 4X5 cut film a try. I may also use B&W. The local camera store can develop the B&W http://www.crickcamera.com/blackwhiteprocessing.html at $1.75 each.

Which film, What source, What lab, Should I just buy used loaders? Do they all fit a Chamonix?

[Ron Marshall]

You will make mistakes that will waste film; foget to close the aperture, forget to replace the darkslide, forget to set the f-stop etc.

b/w will cost about $1 per sheet developed (if you develop yourself) versus $4 for color. Also you may get to like b/w so much that you rarely will shoot color.

[Ron Marshall]

Ok, you guys convinced me. I will give standard 4X5 cut film a try. I may also use B&W. The local camera store can probably develop the B&W. http://www.crickcamera.com/blackwhiteprocessing.html

Which film, What source, What lab, Should I just buy used loaders? Do they all fit a Chamonix?

Ilford FP4+ is forgiving of exposure and processing errors, and has a pleasant tonal scale.

I would learn to develop yourself; you only need two chemicals, developer and fix. It costs about 10 cents per sheet if you do it yourself, $2 for a lab per sheet.

All modern plastic holders will fit the Chamonix.

[Gene McCluney]

Ok, you guys convinced me. I will give standard 4X5 cut film a try. I may also use B&W. The local camera store can probably develop the B&W.

Which film, What source, What lab, Should I just buy used loaders? Do they all fit a Chamonix?


I added to my previous post, so you might re-read it.

Freestyle in California, B&H in New York, Badger Graphics, Midwest Camera Exchange all are good sources of film. Freestyle has some particularly good buys on their private-label films.

Used film holders are generally OK, I have lots and do not have any problems with them. New holders are quite expensive. All 4x5 cut film holders will fit a Chamonix.

[Eric Leppanen]

Here's is Paul Butzi's primer on loading film holders. It's easy!

http://www.butzi.net/articles/filmload.htm

[venchka]

Beginners can handle sheet film holders. However, that is one place where screwups happen in the beginning. The screw up rate declines with practice.

Don't forget the $140 Fuji QuickLoad holder. That buys a ton of used sheet film holders and film.

Don't misunderstand. QuickLoads are fantastic. They are especially good in the field where dust and reloading holders area problem. They do cost a lot extra. I lucked out and got two boxes (Fuji Velvia and Kodak Tmax 100) recently for a good price. I'll use them on trips this summer.

We don't know where you are, but craigslist can be a good source of cheap to free film developing stuff.

[venchka]

A lot of good information here. Also, lots of links to follow for more good information.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/

A great source for all things large format.

http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list&c=178

Badger still has a supply of Kodak Readyloads for a little less than Fuji. A Polaroid 545 holder is a great, CHEAP way to use either the Kodak or Fuji products.

One more piece of the puzzle, B&W film prices:
Arista 4x5 sheet film - $52/100
Fuji 4x5 Acros QuickLoads - $65/20

Makes you wonder, hey?

[timberline12k]

I ordered a box of B&W film, 2 4X5 film holders, cable release and small focus aid.

I drive by a camera shop everyday that can develop B&W and put it on a CD. How do you transport the exposed film, if you still have unexposed film in the box?

[Oren Grad]

How do you transport the exposed film, if you still have unexposed film in the box?

You save your boxes so you can put it in a different box. When you've just bought your first box of film, you ask whether someone who's been at it for a while can spare you an empty box so you can get started. :)

[timberline12k]

You save your boxes so you can put it in a different box. When you've just bought your first box of film, you ask whether someone who's been at it for a while can spare you an empty box so you can get started. :)

If no one around here is into LF, can I just double box it enough to keep the light out?

What do people do when they ship color film out?

[Bill_1856]

Since you're not going to develop your own film, Quickloads sound llike a really good idea to me. MUCH easier to use and then mail off to the lab. Yes, they're more expensive, but unless you're shooting a huge amount of film it isn't that much out of your budget.

[mrladewig]

You've asked about color. If you haven't scanned color negative before, its not as easy as slide film because you can't see what its "supposed" to look like before you scan and labs usually do a crummy job scanning it for you. Its also not processed at many labs in 4X5 size. However it can provide excellent results and I find it very useful. For nature subjects, I like both the Fuji Pro160S and its predecessor NPS and the new Portra 400NC.

Color slide film or E-6 is usually easier to scan when starting out because you can see what the scan is supposed to look like. There is a wide range of films to choose from. Some have very saturated colors but very limited dynamic range and high contrast. Others have moderately saturated colors with a more forgiving range. I would recommend the later when starting out and I think Fuji Provia and Kodak E100G are excellent starting points.

I use two labs and develop B&W at home. If I need to have C-41 processed in my order, I use Reed Photo Imaging in Denver. They're more expensive but do a good job on both C-41 and E-6 (and B&W). If I only have E-6, I use Photocraft in Boulder. They are $1 per sheet cheaper on E-6 and B&W processing than Reed, but every bit as good. They just can't do 4X5 C-41 processing.

[mrladewig]

If no one around here is into LF, can I just double box it enough to keep the light out?

What do people do when they ship color film out?

The box that your film comes in has three parts. Which will stack like shown below. You load and unload the boxes in complete darkness (a film changing tent).
_____________________
| ______________ |
| | | | | |
---------------------

After I've loaded my film, I put a rubber band around the "box" and place it in another box or folder to ship. Label the box clearly with your name and the type of processing the film inside requires. For a while you might ask for the lab to return your boxes until you have a good supply of them.