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Mark Sawyer
20-Apr-2009, 14:29
I my most recent batch of negatives, I found a few flaws of a type I hadn't seen before. I processed them in my usual manner, but don't discount that the fault might be mine. Attached is a scan from a print showing the problem, with a ruler (in inches) for scale. Any guesses what the culprit might be? (I've seen air-bubble marks before, but never one like this...)

Remember, this is from the print, not the negative...
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g139/Owen21k/film.jpg

Don Hutton
20-Apr-2009, 14:30
I'd guess a little bit of undissolved something in the developer. I've seen black spots from D76 with obvious particles floating about...

Mark Sawyer
20-Apr-2009, 15:16
I don't think so, Don, as the developer was HC-110, dilution b. Maybe a solid contaminant, but I didn't notice anything in the tray...

Henry Ambrose
20-Apr-2009, 16:08
The reason to shoot a second negative every time.

Sorry, but I have no idea what caused it.

Don Hutton
20-Apr-2009, 16:08
Maybe a couple of tiny hypo crystals in the tray?

Greg Blank
20-Apr-2009, 17:41
I would second the chemical disposition theory. These marks are too perfect for a scratched holder, sometimes if the black surface is scratched on the holder it will reflect back light. Too round for scratches. Lots of types of Chemical residue would do what your seeing.



I'd guess a little bit of undissolved something in the developer. I've seen black spots from D76 with obvious particles floating about...

Jim Galli
20-Apr-2009, 18:30
I'm jealous. I wish my negs were that good.

W K Longcor
20-Apr-2009, 18:50
You didn't mention the brand of film. If it is Kodak -- probably your problem. If it is from a lesser company -- I have seen coating problems that look like this. ( I used to work in "quality assurance" for such a company!!):eek:

Jim Graves
20-Apr-2009, 19:06
Mark ... a few questions ... sheet film? not quickloads? the negative looks the same as the print depicted (but in reverse)?, there is no residue on the negative?, this occurred on more than one negative?, the affected negatives were from the same box/manufacturer?, and that the defect doesn't appear at the same place on the different negatives?

Andrew O'Neill
20-Apr-2009, 19:13
Is is quite dry down there in Arizona? I've seen static marks like that before. Could be from static from pulling out and reinserting the dark slide...

Mark Sawyer
20-Apr-2009, 19:21
Maybe a couple of tiny hypo crystals in the tray?

Good theory, but the marks were there when I turned the lights on seconds after the film went into the fixer. I don't think it could have happened that fast in the fixer tray. And I don't see how hypo crystals could get into the developer tray and survive there for several negatives. (I develop one at a time, face up).


The reason to shoot a second negative every time.

Sorry, but I have no idea what caused it.

With my luck, I'd have blemishes on both!


I would second the chemical disposition theory. These marks are too perfect for a scratched holder, sometimes if the black surface is scratched on the holder it will reflect back light. Too round for scratches. Lots of types of Chemical residue would do what your seeing.

Could be, but it's got me stumped. I'm pretty meticulous about my chemicals...


I'm jealous. I wish my negs were that good.

Oh, I just photoshopped out all the dust, scratches, fingerprints, claw marks, and blood stains... ;)


You didn't mention the brand of film. If it is Kodak -- probably your problem. If it is from a lesser company -- I have seen coating problems that look like this. ( I used to work in "quality assurance" for such a company!!):eek:

It's from a "lesser company" that I've had coating problems with before, but never one as big and noticeable as this, or looking quite like this. I may have to go back to buying (and paying for) "real" film... :(

Greg Blank
20-Apr-2009, 20:35
That sounds plausible.


Is is quite dry down there in Arizona? I've seen static marks like that before. Could be from static from pulling out and reinserting the dark slide...

Mark Sawyer
20-Apr-2009, 22:05
Mark ... a few questions ... sheet film? not quickloads? the negative looks the same as the print depicted (but in reverse)?, there is no residue on the negative?, this occurred on more than one negative?, the affected negatives were from the same box/manufacturer?, and that the defect doesn't appear at the same place on the different negatives?

Hi, Jim! Tray developed 8x10 sheet film in HC110 dilution b, water for stop bath, Arista Odorless Rapid Fixer for 3 minutes. No sign of chemical residue. The defect is in different places and occurs in different sizes and patterns, but all are similar. From the same box. Maybe just a bad batch, but I'm not sure.


Is is quite dry down there in Arizona? I've seen static marks like that before. Could be from static from pulling out and reinserting the dark slide...

Possible, but it looks more chemical to my eye. Almost like little clusters of bubbles, but after the first couple, I ran my fingers all over the emulsion after putting the next piece of film in the tray. Still got the problem...

sgelb
20-Apr-2009, 22:25
dirt in your holder that or moisture in your film i would guess.

Andrew O'Neill
20-Apr-2009, 22:58
I missed the last sentence where you say "this is from the print not the negative". Those marks are definitely not from static, then. If it's happening on other sheets, then I would put it down to defective film. I would ask to have it exchanged from wherever you bought it from. What film was it, by the way?

Mark Sawyer
21-Apr-2009, 00:02
Arista.edu Ultra 200 from Freestyle. I hate to blame the film when I could be doing it myself, but it's happening pretty consistantly, and I've never had it happen before.

Still, I'd never put anything past my own creative genius for stupidity... :)

Chauncey Walden
21-Apr-2009, 07:35
Mark, are you sure it is not the traces of a little tequila, salt, and lime on the film?;-)

Mark Sawyer
21-Apr-2009, 08:22
Dang! Chauncey nailed it!

Shen45
21-Apr-2009, 17:50
Arista.edu Ultra 200 from Freestyle. I hate to blame the film when I could be doing it myself, but it's happening pretty consistantly, and I've never had it happen before.

Still, I'd never put anything past my own creative genius for stupidity... :)

If you think it is the film at fault Mark would you post the batch or emulsion number from the box and others with that same batch can offer their observations.

I have used Arista Edu Ultra 200 for a long time now and would say I have yet to have a problem. If there is a consistent problem there is a strong chance it will or has appeared for other photographers in the same batch number.

Steve

Mark Sawyer
21-Apr-2009, 22:10
I'm not 100% sure it's the film, but I'm leaning that way. I'll shoot a mixed batch (same edu 200 and HP5) next time I have a chance, (maybe in a couple of weeks) and see if it shows up on the other film. Of my last dozen negatives, five had the defects, and all were from a newly opened box I'd kept frozen since getting it maybe three years ago. The box reads:

EM# 007154/01
EX# 2008-06