Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

[koraks]

Whatever the reason I don’t think it’s fair to criticize someone for doing something they enjoy and is also harmless to you.

The reasons you mentioned are certainly valid. And given the time and effort I put into trying to make x-ray film work for me, rest assured that I know from first-hand experience how they work and what the appeal of the material is - I recognize everything you said (well, almost)!

But...I see many people who are experimenting with this kind of film in the apparent expectation that it's a substitute for regular photographic film. But it really isn't. In its tonal reproduction, it is fundamentally *impossible* to make x-ray film do the same thing as even a low-cost, archaic-technology film like Fomapan 100. Anyone on that path may find themselves spending a lot of time, and ultimately also quite a bit of money, on something that just will never do what they hope it will do.

And yes, they may end up with something they like nonetheless and be content with that. On the other hand, I'm sure that several people who posted in this thread and even more who've read (parts of) it ultimately turned away from x-ray film in mild disappointment and either moved on to regular film, or just abandoned the format they intended to shoot on altogether.

So while I respect and agree with your view, I do feel that whenever someone who is new to the trade expresses interest in x-ray film, someone should give them a fair warning of what they should NOT expect from it. Speaking from my own experience, even though I'm plenty stubborn enough to have tried it anyway (I would!), I sure would have appreciated it if the many blogs and posts that waxed lyrical about this nearly-free alternative to real film would have been a bit more nuanced.

[Tin Can]

NOBODY on this forum in the X-Ray thread EVER promised a DAMN thing

I shoot all kinds of film

I really like ancient film as I love to experiment

My oldest glass plates give me great joy, I think the plates are 125 years old and still work!

Many here are NOT DAMN EXPERTS and don't give a shit what the self proclaimed experts say

WE have several 'esteemed' members who NEVER post an image of their masterpieces, wtf



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50980923242_3c95795724_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/w7Ajo8oiq6)Glass Plate Box (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/w7Ajo8oiq6) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

[Tin Can]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50980922867_8e1a5ba4a8_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/Vj20k22387)PS 1884 Standard Dry Plate Company 5X7 (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/Vj20k22387) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

[koraks]

NOBODY on this forum in the X-Ray thread EVER promised a DAMN thing

[...]
WE have several 'esteemed' members who NEVER post an image of their masterpieces, wtf

Nobody said anyone promised anything.

And so what who considers whom esteemed and whether people, esteemed or otherwise, post images?

Why the aggravation? I just expressed my opinion and experience. Apparently you don't like it; that says something about you, not about what I said.

[Tin Can]

no problem

some of us like X-Ray

you don't

[Michael R]

Understood. Enjoyment is ultimately what this is about and that is a valid enough reason to try/use x-ray film. It also makes sense if the specific characteristics of x-ray films are what one is after.

On the other hand, if the motivation is simply to circumvent the cost of large format film some criticism is healthy. It is a misguided pursuit. If the cost of large format film is prohibitive the photographer would be far better off using medium format film (whether on a large or medium format camera) than with x-ray sheet film. The other point is that if one is nevertheless determined to experiment with x-ray film in an attempt to save money, despite insurmountable differences in spectral sensitization etc., at the very least more appropriate processing should be considered. Things like dilute general purpose developers, reduced agitation/stand etc. just aren’t going to do much of anything to help.


Some of us are interested in experimenting, some can’t afford the cost of a box of ilford 8x10 or the like and shoot as much as we like. 500 sheets of X-ray is about the same as 1 box of 25 sheets of ilford fp4. Not to mention the high contrast of x-ray works beautifully with alternative processes and also has a different look than modern film. Whatever the reason I don’t think it’s fair to criticize someone for doing something they enjoy and is also harmless to you.

[Tin Can]

Perhaps experts worry X-Ray will dilute real film usage

Our oldest member prefers Orthochromatic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthochromasia#:~:text=Orthochromatic%20photography%20refers%20to%20a,lighter%2C%20and%20red%20ones%20darker.), for several reasons

He has been using it since the 1930's

[Andrew O'Neill]

No, it's not a sub for regular films...but neither is Ilford Ortho, or those Lane glass plates. They stand on their own for what they are and what they can do. I simply use xray film for it's orthochromatic characteristics. It's lovely that I can get it in 14x17...for cheap! It makes great alt prints. I prefer double-sided green. Also, my senior photo students use it in their big box pinhole cameras! :D

[Brian Bullen]

Koraks and Michael R, it’s true that x-ray film is not a substitute for panchromatic film. We might be coming at this from different perspectives, I have been shooting with film since the 80’s and although that’s not as long as others here it’s a fair amount of time. Everything from 11x14 on down so I knew what I was getting into with x-ray. People who are newer to large format or film photography in general might not understand the differences, it does seem that most forums and blogs clearly state that it’s orthochromatic, scratches easily, double sided and more contrasty. I chose X-ray in 8x10 and larger for several reasons, I love the look but I love the price even more. I can afford regular film and shoot that as well, especially in smaller formats. If someone can not afford a box of 25sheets of ilford or tmax but would like to try large format I would totally recommend $40 for 100 sheets of film, I would also suggest they do their research. As far as standard developers diluted or otherwise is perfectly fine, any developer chosen can work and work well, that’s why people should learn and experiment to find what works best for them. I’ve used coffee, d-76, pyrocat and others all with great results and I’m happy I did.
Is it the right choice for everyone, no way! Is it ok to try new things, learn and grow, hell yes. Let everyone decide their own path. Discouragement is not a productive way forward.

[koraks]

Discouragement is not a productive way forward.
My point exactly. Which is why I press my point. If it's clear up front to someone what they're getting into, the chances that it's something they're actually looking for are higher. That's managing expectations, not discouragement! It's great that you knew what you were getting into. I bet most people who try xray film for the first time don't and expect something that's a cheaper but nearly equivalent alternative to regular film. If you love it for what it is, that's great. And indeed, I don't, but that doesn't mean the next person should feel the same way. Obviously!

[Tin Can]

Only recently has the X-Ray thread been attacked for not being perfect

Nobody ever used any film perfectly the first go

Soon X-Ray will be gone

Cool it please


My point exactly. Which is why I press my point. If it's clear up front to someone what they're getting into, the chances that it's something they're actually looking for are higher. That's managing expectations, not discouragement! It's great that you knew what you were getting into. I bet most people who try xray film for the first time don't and expect something that's a cheaper but nearly equivalent alternative to regular film. If you love it for what it is, that's great. And indeed, I don't, but that doesn't mean the next person should feel the same way. Obviously!

[Edison]

Boat Launch, Amsterdam Beach

Camera: Kodak 2D 8x10, circa 1930,
Film: Fujifilm HRT Green Sensitive X-ray film,
Filter: Hoya X1 HMC (yellow/green),
Lens: Fuji 210w,

Developer: Pyrocat HD MC.
Method: Jobo CPP-2 with an Expert Drum

"Thank you!" to Nikhilesh Sekhar for giving me a few sheets of the x-ray film to test.

Beautiful shot

[Edison]

8x10 Fuji HR-A (Green Sensitive Xray) @ ISO 160, Rodinal 1:50, 4 min., Dagor 12"
developed individually in trays with glass on bottom, negative is not stripped
v750 w/EpsonScan Software + www.betterscanning.com glass on top of 4 Korean pennies
2400 dpi scan makes it a 64x80 inch print @ 300dpi, but our Epson Stylus Pro 9600 only prints up to 42 inches wide

100% view - dust & scratches, levels, smart sharpening 100% @ 2 pixels:
97583

Print size view:
97584

Printing in progress:
97589

Show opening:
97590

Looks fabulous as a 40x50 inch print, I have no need to go larger than this...

What an accomplishment.

[Tin Can]

PE-2 is an expert and chose X-Ray!

I have had some interchanges with him, last he was teaching LF in Korea where nobody was using LF


I sold and shipped him an 8X10 C1 in very good condition to Korea

Excellent example!

I think he used students as sitters


What an accomplishment.

[Edison]

and if you REALLY careful...

8x10, Kodak CSG, 1s, Yellow/Green filter, Symmar, 8m in 1:100 R09

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5442/9338583172_8c14bafee9_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sergeistudio/9338583172/)
Scan-130721-0004www (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sergeistudio/9338583172/) by Sergei Rodionov (http://www.flickr.com/people/sergeistudio/), on Flickr

Amazing shot.

[Tin Can]

Sergei Rodionov another X-Ray PROFESSIONAL

I met he and his wife in times of trouble and good times

He helped me a lot on this forum get through my MANY LF mistakes, X-Ray saved me money

Look at his flicker, a lot is X-Ray

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sergeistudio/

[Edison]

I'm pretty new to the X-ray world, but I have been using paRodinal 1+50 for the last week - I'm very happy with the results:

101606

101607

101608

101609

I've been shooting Fuji HRT 8x10 at ISO 100 under strobes.

Wonderful.

[Tin Can]

https://www.analoguelab.com.au/film-developer-recipe-parodinal/

Until actual and cheap Rodinol is NOT available I will use it

Experiment ON!

[Edison]

103447

This is my favorite image from the first shoot I've done in 8x10. The film is Kodak Ektascan B/RA rated at 100 and processed on a Jobo in Rodinal 1:200 8' -the camera is a Toyo 810G and the lens is a Plaubel Anticomar 4.2/300 wide open.

Excellent!

[Andrew O'Neill]

Well, all I can say is that it's been a hoot being a part of this thread from the beginning...2009! I'm glad I stuck it out with this stuff. I gave it up briefly, but got back into it when I built my "piece of crap" 14x17 back in 2011.

[Edison]

I’ve been shooting Fuji full speed blue rx-n with a yellow filter at iso 25 with decent results. I like it so much I decided to get hr-U green “orthochromatic”. I did some side by side shots with the yellow filter and at iso 25. The green stuff turned out much darker, I’d say 5 stops darker maybe. I think the shadow detail Loss is probably not from the film but from the underexposure. I’ll test hr-u again wo the yellow filter and at iso 6 or 12.

Top two have been heavily shopped to match. Bottom two are flat scans.

Hr-u:232009

Rx-n:232008

Hr-u: 232010

Rx-n: 232011


PS this is 10 minutes of tray developed d76 1:2

[maltfalc]

I’ve been shooting Fuji full speed blue rx-n with a yellow filter at iso 25 with decent results. I like it so much I decided to get hr-U green “orthochromatic”. I did some side by side shots with the yellow filter and at iso 25. The green stuff turned out much darker, I’d say 5 stops darker maybe. I think the shadow detail Loss is probably not from the film but from the underexposure. I’ll test hr-u again wo the yellow filter and at iso 6 or 12.


PS this is 10 minutes of tray developed d76 1:2

whatever your issue is, it's not the film, unless you got a bad box that was stored improperly or something. hr-u green should be perfectly useable at iso 100 or higher.

[chris73]

I’ve been shooting Fuji full speed blue rx-n with a yellow filter at iso 25 with decent results. I like it so much I decided to get hr-U green “orthochromatic”. I did some side by side shots with the yellow filter and at iso 25. The green stuff turned out much darker, I’d say 5 stops darker maybe. I think the shadow detail Loss is probably not from the film but from the underexposure. I’ll test hr-u again wo the yellow filter and at iso 6 or 12.

Top two have been heavily shopped to match. Bottom two are flat scans.

Hr-u:232009

Rx-n:232008

Hr-u: 232010

Rx-n: 232011


PS this is 10 minutes of tray developed d76 1:2

From my little experience with HR-U i rate it at iso25 and works well with dilluted developers.
As for the yellow filter, when i use a 2x yellow filter with HR-U i give it 3 stops overexposure (instead of 1 in the case of a panchro film)

[Edison]

From my little experience with HR-U i rate it at iso25 and works well with dilluted developers.
As for the yellow filter, when i use a 2x yellow filter with HR-U i give it 3 stops overexposure (instead of 1 in the case of a panchro film)

Thanks what I was thinking, the yellow filter may be cutting out more light than expected. I’ll test again and report back. Thanks!

This is a brand new box from zz medical, so I hope it’s good film.

[Edison]

whatever your issue is, it's not the film, unless you got a bad box that was stored improperly or something. hr-u green should be perfectly useable at iso 100 or higher.

Im only at page 250 or so of the thread, trying to catch up. I hear people mentioning 200 even, but I haven’t seen anyone talk about hr-U specifically, I think.

The zz medical site says hr-u is green, but the spec sheet says “orthochromatic” implying it’s green blue, if I understand it right.

The blue one is rx-n and it’s called “full speed” whatever that means.

I’ll try 100, 50, and 25 iso without the filter, and then as the other comment suggests, essentially iso 3 with a yellow filter. I’m using a 2 yellow 8 which is a mild yellow, typically 2/3 a stop

[Andrew O'Neill]

Once I'm through the 100 sheets of the cxsonline green latitude 14x17 (got about 20 sheets left...), I'll tackle my box of HR-U Green. I'm imagining EI will be similar.

[Tin Can]

I have been buying $1000's of X-Ray film from ZZ for a decade

Always' fresh, in date

No worries with ZZ as they are bonafide MEDICAL suppliers

Iowa is trustworthy


Thanks what I was thinking, the yellow filter may be cutting out more light than expected. I’ll test again and report back. Thanks!

This is a brand new box from zz medical, so I hope it’s good film.

They found me a full case of 14X17 single sided just as it disappeared, that was $1000

Well worth it

I also have plenty of 2x with some coming this week

The old guard dislikes we novices as they fear their fave film will in fade away

[maltfalc]

Im only at page 250 or so of the thread, trying to catch up. I hear people mentioning 200 even, but I haven’t seen anyone talk about hr-U specifically, I think.

The zz medical site says hr-u is green, but the spec sheet says “orthochromatic” implying it’s green blue, if I understand it right.

The blue one is rx-n and it’s called “full speed” whatever that means.

I’ll try 100, 50, and 25 iso without the filter, and then as the other comment suggests, essentially iso 3 with a yellow filter. I’m using a 2 yellow 8 which is a mild yellow, typically 2/3 a stop

hr-u replaced hr-t at some point if that helps, basically the same. x-ray films come in "green" or "blue" versions for use with green or blue x-ray phosphor screens. blue is plain silver halides, so uv-violet-blue sensitive. green trades about half that sensitivity for sensitivity to cyan-green-yellow (mostly green), so it's orthochromatic. fuji colour codes their boxes green or blue. i've never used rx-n, but i would expect it to be much darker than green hr-u if you're using a yellow filter.

[Edison]

hr-u replaced hr-t at some point if that helps, basically the same. x-ray films come in "green" or "blue" versions for use with green or blue x-ray phosphor screens. blue is plain silver halides, so uv-violet-blue sensitive. green trades about half that sensitivity for sensitivity to cyan-green-yellow (mostly green), so it's orthochromatic. fuji colour codes their boxes green or blue. i've never used rx-n, but i would expect it to be much darker than green hr-u if you're using a yellow filter.

RX-N is what I started with and I set my meter to 16iso and meter for zone 3. I’m not happy with my highlights so I’m going to Keep experimenting with d76. It seems like almost nobody uses d76 so far (up to 258). Rx-n: 232063

I can’t wait to go out tomorrow and test more.

Edit: using a yellow filter

[Roberto Nania]

The problem with D76 is that Kodak raised the price dramatically. It was 4€ for the to make-1l powder few years ago, now it is around 8€...
And I really like D76 over HC110.

[Michael R]

If the price of Ilford ID-11 is lower, use that. It is the same formula as D-76. Or you can mix your own D-23 (only two compounds plus water), which is functionally very close to D-76. XTOL and its various clones from other manufacturers are also functionally very close to D-76. XTOL can be used in a replenishment regime too. Just some options.


The problem with D76 is that Kodak raised the price dramatically. It was 4€ for the to make-1l powder few years ago, now it is around 8€...
And I really like D76 over HC110.

[Edison]

The problem with D76 is that Kodak raised the price dramatically. It was 4€ for the to make-1l powder few years ago, now it is around 8€...
And I really like D76 over HC110.

The cost may have come down. I get it for $9.95 per gallon. 3785ml / 25ml per sheet = 151 sheets or $.07 per 4x5.

$28 per box of RX-N (400 4x5s).

232069

PS I’m also diluting currently at 1:2 so 200ml out of the 600ml of working solution takes care of 8 sheets in a tray.

[Roberto Nania]

If the price of Ilford ID-11 is lower, use that. It is the same formula as D-76. Or you can mix your own D-23 (only two compounds plus water), which is functionally very close to D-76. XTOL and its various clones from other manufacturers are also functionally very close to D-76. XTOL can be used in a replenishment regime too. Just some options.

That was one option. Metol is at around 34€ for 100gr (I bet in US is way more cheaper). It will give around 26 sessions of 1 liter working solution in 1+1 diluition.

[Edison]

Some success with HR-U. I shot it at 25, 50, and 100. Developed D76 1:2 for 7 minutes. I'm pretty sure the order of these is 25 50 100 but it's hard to tell the second two. I also shot one with a yellow filter at iso 3 and it still came out very under exposed. I'm going to try a new yellow filter test when I can. 232080

Obviously I need to work on being more careful handling the film. I'm using a rotatrim to cut (and this one I tried 3 sheets at once, I assume that's how I got so many scratches this time.)

I'm going to try wearing nitrile gloves during the cutdown process, loading process, and development process. It was also suggested a flat bottomed tray will help. I'll look for a set, or 3 5x7 sheets of glass. I'm curious to how flipping through a stack of 8 will go with the flat bottom. I'm worried the bottom one will stick.

I'm very happy with the results overall with HR-U. RX-N has a dreamy look but HR-U looks pretty realistic. Thanks for all the help so far (on page 278/629).

[Edison]

232081
Checkers

Fuji RX-N at 25iso in d76 1:2 for 7 minutes

[Bob Wagner]

My experience: plexiglass in the bottom of each tray, process one sheet at a time, mix D-23 from bulk chemicals, gentle tray rocking for agitation, cover tray during development because HRU is more sensitive to safelight than you might expect

[Andrew O'Neill]

Am I the only one using D-23? I've used a gazillion developers over the years with XRAY films, and it has been my favourite so far. D-23 1+1, 1+2.
Bob, plexi on the bottom of ribbed trays is a great idea. I did that (actually with plate glass because heavier), until I got my hands on a few flat-bottomed trays. Before the plate glass technique, I used giant ziplock bags. Film inserted, developer poured in (pyrocat-hd back in those days). Worked well but had to puff in a bit of air to keep the plastic from settling on the film during rest period. I didn't like my lips getting that close to the developer... neither did my wife!
I prefer flat-bottomed trays, but are they EVER expensive new. Got mine second hand... Thanks for the safelight warning... I'll be cracking open my box of HRU in the very near future. My ceiling hung amber coloured safelight has worked well with several different brands, so I'm hoping HRU will, too. Cheers!

[Daniel Unkefer]

232081
Checkers

Fuji RX-N at 25iso in d76 1:2 for 7 minutes

Looks good. I have a box of RX-N, I will need to give it a go. I like the Legacy Microdol-X as it restrains and lengthens the development time. I have gone as long as eighteen minutes at 60F in replenished Mic-X. A gallon will last you many years of use I have found. So very economical

Daylight color is also a factor. HRU is most sensitive at straight up high noon light. As the light becomes more orangish later in the day, the exposures need to be increased. Take copious notes and keep going. Handling without scratching is a huge issue. I have not scratched any film while it is still dry. It scratches uber uber easy when wet. Best to bracket while you are getting your handle on this. I shoot dupes I don't want any scratches


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50549038488_b5881ae3bc_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2k1R33m)Ashton Pond Norma Handy HRU Mic-X 2 (https://flic.kr/p/2k1R33m) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Ashton Pond Columbus Ohio Sinar Norma Handy 4x5 Fuji HR-U XRay 65mm F8 at F22 Schneider CF + Sinar Norma Dark Yellow 103mm Glass Disk 1 sec at F22 Legacy Mic-X replenished stock in Cesco flat bottom tray 18 mins at 62F Arista #2 RC 4x 8x10 Multigrade dev

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50505677496_4ce8b067b9_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jX1Nk3)Auto Maki no 2 150 2.8 Xenotar HRU 5 (https://flic.kr/p/2jX1Nk3) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Plaubel Automatic Makiflex #2 150mm F2.8 Xenotar wide-open 1/15 Fuji 8x10 XRay HRU cut down to 4x5 in Graphmatic back StarD tripod. Development 12 minutes 60F straight Mic-X replenished by inspection of shadow values by deep red safelight. 8x10 Arista #2 RC Omega DII 180 Rodagon f22 50 seconds Omegalite diffusion head Multigrade developer

I also mix diluted D-23 from bulk chems and I'm also a happy camper. :) Also very economical

[Edison]

Well. I used glass bottoms in the trays. Gloves to cut down, gloves to load, unload, and develop. I did 5 sheets at once in D76 1:3 for 8 minutes. I like the exposure and development. But the scratches are comically numerous. Next I'll try just one sheet as advised to rule out the interleafing process. 232121232122232123

edit: i removed the carillon photo - i think that was a blue photo with a yellow filter.

[Tin Can]

Yes, I also did Ziploc processing

It works

but

[Andrew O'Neill]

but めんどくさい！ (mendokusai), as the Japanese say! ;)

[GuillaumeZuili]

Getting into that thread makes you want to try xray for sure.
Did anyone try SLIMT in order to tame the contrast of the film ?
Best to all.
G

[Michael R]

Getting into that thread makes you want to try xray for sure.
Did anyone try SLIMT in order to tame the contrast of the film ?
Best to all.
G

I think in the long run it would be better to use a low contrast/high speed developer. Of course this would take some up-front experimentation.

[Edison]

Yes, I also did Ziploc processing

It works

but

What is the ziplock method? Someone I was chatting with said they put the film in and cut the corners of the bag and develop in tray- is this the only ziplock method?

[maltfalc]

Thanks for the safelight warning... I'll be cracking open my box of HRU in the very near future. My ceiling hung amber coloured safelight has worked well with several different brands, so I'm hoping HRU will, too. Cheers! you need a deep red safelight with hr-u, especially when it's wet.

[Andrew O'Neill]

you need a deep red safelight with hr-u, especially when it's wet.

Good to know. Thanks!

[Andrew O'Neill]

What is the ziplock method? Someone I was chatting with said they put the film in and cut the corners of the bag and develop in tray- is this the only ziplock method?

I talked a lot about it waaaaaay back in this thread... like we are talking years ago! I was using over-sized ziplok bags that I ordered online. The bag is laid in a tray, and the film is slipped inside. Developer poured in. I sealed up the bag leaving a tiny bit open so I could puff in some air with my mouth, then sealed (yes, gross I know). This kept the bag from collapsing on the film between agitation cycles. Agitate as normal. Worked really well until I discovered that smooth, flat-bottomed trays worked really well.

[j.e.simmons]

As for a safelight, I use a Kodak GBX-2 filter. It’s made for use with X-Ray film.

[Tin Can]

Took years to get that Data...secrets

NOW I have them in DR and my shooting space

trays ready with chem

I can shoot without shutter using strobe

My DR 6 years ago the entire condo was Blackout with LED safe light


As for a safelight, I use a Kodak GBX-2 filter. It’s made for use with X-Ray film.

[Andrew O'Neill]

As for a safelight, I use a Kodak GBX-2 filter. It’s made for use with X-Ray film.


Thanks for that. I've got an old round safelight housing which will take one of those... I see some online.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50348848932_38f030f047_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jHa1Eh)Kodak 1A Grey Bullet Safelight 2 (https://flic.kr/p/2jHa1Eh) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Jason Lane led me to this, he uses it to coat his dry plates. I made a couple for myself, I have gone as long as twenty five minutes at five feet away, never fogged any Fuji HRU XRAY. It's the red 3 watt Red LED from Lowes, with a 1A Kodak Red Glass Filter. So, red light, through another red filter. I call it the "double-safe" light.

NO WAY THIS WILL FOG MY HRU XRAY

With this I can see well enough to inspect shadow detail while developing, no prob

[Peter De Smidt]

Nice, Daniel.

[Edison]

I had 8 to develop so I used the yankee tank (hyper development artifacts on top and bottom) and d76 1:3 8 minutes with agitation every 30 seconds. Rated at iso 50. I guessed reciprocity failure of ^1.3 but I think they’re underexposed anyway.

Im getting a lot of fine white line artifacts and I think something is being “drawn” on the negative at some point, possibly from going in and out of the holders. I haven’t seen this before on pan film so im stumped.

But I think switching to hru was very good in regards to limiting halation and increasing sharpness.

232192
232193
And a crop from the above shot: 232194

[Daniel Unkefer]

Nice, Daniel.

Thanks Peter

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50368290156_ed67d711f3_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jJSDRN)HRU Pulso Test 210 Componon f22 12 pops MicX (https://flic.kr/p/2jJSDRN) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Testing my new Broncolor Pulso C171 375 WS Monolight with restored 80x80cm Pulso Softbox about three feet right. Silver Gold reflector on left. Fuji HRU XRay film 4x5 Sinar Norma 210mm chrome Componon Norma Shutter Mic-X replenished straight developed in a flat bottomed Cesco tray. Lisco 4x5 film holder. F22 I popped the strobe twelve times to build up the density. The Grey canvas background I painted myself; Just recently put it back up. The lens on Maki is a Fuji GX680 180mm F3.2, transplanted the cells into a Fuji WS 210 Seiko Shutter. Lens is clinically sharp; I have a portrait friend that says the lens is too sharp. So he hates it LOL

[Daniel Unkefer]

I process in Cesco flat 8x10 trays, XRAY clips keep the film from touching the bottom getting marks. Also the clips keep the sheets from bumping into each other, especially in the turbulent wash tray.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50376431731_93523e2a72_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jKAo4M)HRU Fixing Step Dental Clips 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2jKAo4M) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

This is the only way I have found I can get absolutely clean negatives without any scratches or abrasions. I want clean perfect negatives and this is what I have to do to get it with this stuff. If you look at it wrong it will scratch LOL ; I'm not kidding. Also I shoot dupes so success assured.

[Edison]

Well it's been a fun week. I found a leedal tank on craigslist and a kodak model d with gbx-2 filter safelight locally on ebay. The safelight makes a world of difference in the cutdown process and in general. I'm going to get an OC filter for printing. I really like the the hangers and dip tank too. No scratches. But I am getting these black dots (mottling?) I'm doing d76 1:4 for 9.5 minutes at 20c. Any thoughts to why?
232337
232338
232339
And one I thought just looks nice
232340

[Rubud]

Some quick tests using my 4x5 pinhole.

AGFA Curix Ortho exp 2005 @ EI 64 developed 7mins, Kalogen 1:100 using a MOD 54/Patterson tank.
The films came out fogged but scanable though I'm unsure whether it's age, unsafe safelight or that my blackout hasn't completely blacked out the newly erected street lights facing where I cut the film. The writing on the second has me stumped.
I'm relocating to the laundry (no windows) and have adapted Daniel's/Jason Lane's idea of utilising a 3w red LED bulb filtered through a red lighting gel equivalent to a GBX filter. Hopefully I'll have some answers.

232377
232378
232379
232380

[Rubud]

Negatives from above.

232381

[Daniel Unkefer]

Some quick tests using my 4x5 pinhole.

AGFA Curix Ortho exp 2005 @ EI 64 developed 7mins, Kalogen 1:100 using a MOD 54/Patterson tank.
The films came out fogged but scanable though I'm unsure whether it's age, unsafe safelight or that my blackout hasn't completely blacked out the newly erected street lights facing where I cut the film. The writing on the second has me stumped.
I'm relocating to the laundry (no windows) and have adapted Daniel's/Jason Lane's idea of utilising a 3w red LED bulb filtered through a red lighting gel equivalent to a GBX filter. Hopefully I'll have some answers.

232377
232378
232379
232380

Old badly stored Film?? Try processing a sheet no exposure; should be clear as scotch tape if the film is good; sometimes damage can add to an image. Depends

Yep that safelight looks mighty mighty deep red, just like mine. You can lay pennies on the film periodically, to test it's tolerance exposure to the safelight. Also it's bright enough to see film shadow detail as it is developing. Developing by inspection, I lift a sheet up to examine it by safelight

[Rubud]

Old badly stored Film?? Try processing a sheet no exposure; should be clear as scotch tape if the film is good; sometimes damage can add to an image. Depends

Yep that safelight looks mighty mighty deep red, just like mine. You can lay pennies on the film periodically, to test it's tolerance exposure to the safelight. Also it's bright enough to see film shadow detail as it is developing. Developing by inspection, I lift a sheet up to examine it by safelight

Thanks very much for your suggestions (and for sharing your safelight idea). My first inclination is that the film is old (there was one batch where the emulsion peeled off as soon as it got wet). The chap who gave it to me did say that it had been sitting around the storage area for some time. Once I've got the laundry completely light tight I'll cut a sheet in darkness for the tank and then do some safelight tests. If the worst case turns out to be age related I'll be content and will work around it as I do with other expired film.

[Rubud]

It looks as if my earlier issues are more the result of unsafe lighting than old film. In my new environment (Laundry) & safelight setup, I cut a sheet in total darkness, loaded one into my Patterson tank and did a safelight test strip on another in 2min increments for 10 mins, loading the tank in total darkness. Developed in Kalogen 1:100 7mins. I can't see any discernible difference between the blanks which are both a giant improvement on my previous efforts (I was using my computer monitor as a lightbox so the left may look a little darker from the angle I photographed).

232417

232419 (Scanned using an Epson V850)

[Corran]

Pulled out the 5x7 and some Carestream x-ray film to practice and check exposure with my hot lights. Next week there is a "Roaring 20's" themed event I am attending and I'm going to do some fun portraits of attendees dressed in period style using the Eastman View #2 and Verito 8 3/4." In fact I just checked and according to an online database the Verito was made in 1924, and the Eastman produced through the mid 20's, so very period correct, other than the film! :)

The test image, of my wife, wide-open and at 1/10:

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhoKtDcnDJOyGYYrSm9lb-jIwntipSTXl0hdGwAOAt38ictU1XJppspNjA9yU-pOAVkzozsNl0mwmeA4jDY_-GmsrNbQheRlu98NmgIw6noXEKuiEfe2Azkn8GFzjh5CPsEk4FilNKIYnEHJl8TgGLySdZ8m8v9gGcnBePJu78IqH7VNTZCFnb4jgoXrQ/s700/nov22-meg-2s.jpg

[Daniel Unkefer]

Nice. I am discovering 5x7 myself.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52497959403_20b6460973_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nZ4Lk6)SONY DSC (https://flic.kr/p/2nZ4Lk6) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

This is the Fiskar Cutter Jim Galli directed me to. Bought cheaply on Ebay, got four new 45mm blades at the local fabric store. Great cutter! I see why he likes it! Here is my cutting setup, set up for cutting 18x24cm sheets from the huge roll of 24cm Agfa Aviphot. Same emulsion as Rollei 400s, basically. Identical if not the same. Has some slight Infared effect that is very pleasing. I've been shooting this film as Rollei 400s in fresh 70mm, and I like it. Between the Mammo Film, Agfa Aviphot, and Fuji HRU I am all set for cheapo 8x10 size shoots. Something I can do in winter times. I have eight 18x24cm original olde wooden Sinar Film Holders that are perfect for shooting this stuff. If I contact print on 8x10 paper, it makes a nice wide black border that I like.

Of course I have to spin the plastic cylinder of film so it is oriented for easy cutting. I will set up some wooden stops to hold the biggie roll so it doesn't slide around in the dark. That's about it for now

The Fiskar's blade goes into 45 pivot mode so no way to scratch the film. Good design

[Edison]

I had an issue I posted about a few days ago- black dots on the photos. I eliminated everything and it ended up being the film, probably due to poor storage. I did allow it to get to 80F and could have been too humid.

I’m now trying agfa cp-gu m from cxs. I tried some overcast shots today and it appears to be iso 25 (with d76 1:6 9.5min with hangers)

Here’s a shot from yesterday. 232608

[Edison]

I also would like to share that I’m using a rotatrim m24 to cut down 8x10s to 4x5. I have two paper safes. One I fill with the sheets I’ll cut. I start by setting the cutter to 125mm and cut down the half sheets, store them in the other paper safe. Once that’s complete, I turn the lights on, adjust the cutter to 110mm, then go back and cut the rest of the film to size and put in a 4x5 box. I recently got a kodak model d safelight which came with the GBX2 filter. I found it had a 75w(!) bulb but it still doesn’t fog.

Edit: I need to run fog tests.

[Rubud]

I've been using a Carl A3 rotary trimmer using magnets as a guide for cutting down paper & film. One magnet is at 4in in the top and another at 5in on the bottom. It's an idea I stumbled on recently but it seems to work.

232676

[Tin Can]

Very good idea!

I have a roll of magnet tape, I use for ULF

I keep 2 cutters for film cut usage only, in a dust free metal drawer

Thank you


I've been using a Carl A3 rotary trimmer using magnets as a guide for cutting down paper & film. One magnet is at 4in in the top and another at 5in on the bottom. It's an idea I stumbled on recently but it seems to work.

232676

[Corran]

Pulled out the 5x7 and some Carestream x-ray film to practice and check exposure with my hot lights. Next week there is a "Roaring 20's" themed event I am attending and I'm going to do some fun portraits of attendees dressed in period style using the Eastman View #2 and Verito 8 3/4."

And...some results! Well, I cheated though. I recently purchased a 200mm and 250mm Imagon set and I put the 200mm in a Copal 3 shutter I have here collecting dust. Works on the 5x7 and soft focus is nice, but noticeably wider than the Verito, which I needed for group shots. I should've switch to the Verito for this image, but my friend wanted to take a photo of my wife and I dressed up for the occasion, so I just used what was on the camera at the time as I had only about a minute to set this up and show her how to trigger the shutter.

Cropped square though - 5x7 Eastman #2, 200mm Imagon, on Carestream x-ray film:

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjF53jJHdLceshdIsZzgyEaOxtnYW78LUD5w4XPS_VSBLFG7kI_HSQBtFZAAPAc9uG7fwGS5u9SV4EiqflGAt0uRJQ10SRunC7fU_NAFjkC32sxPJhkiN5u1UkfdobsfRk5Nck-Su0rbn6bYIK3Wsomsla6WWQoOSf8_VziAqGopJJhiXzSEBs1b0Kr9Q/s700/1920speakeasy-0986ss.jpg

[Corran]

And, a group shot, same 200mm Imagon. Interesting how the light from the background window (which late in the day had become much brighter) wrapped around the foreground faces. I didn't mention this, but I had one hot-light for illumination on these.

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhqr5NL7e0QeigGy-1BTyVuW6cww569KVBTw2IJvmsdZB748LAObJ0t8goFEfvWlRu7UfX3tz8pXjFEO28cAQkUOvLVSabFNL363xOZbFV8axV_w0vbgAIIsbtgnkFHr8dKDhfPqlQMIF74rBjaPtxRWCGqKVtbg-oKSbH5sFtuwk1XMhcg-5mIAW1DPg/s900/1920speakeasy-0988s.jpg

[Tin Can]

Interesting and Brave

The pearls seem too normal

I also think you should try ULF X-Ray

[Corran]

200 sheets of 14x17 are waiting for me to use them...

Not enough time in the day!

[Corran]

Speaking of x-ray...I've tried on and off for a while to make positives using x-ray materials. Never quite worked right, but recently I had a brainstorm on what I was failing at doing before, so gave it another go:

232823

Decent success! That is just a cell pic sitting on my light table. And this 5x7 film is of an unknown age and slightly fogged from what I can tell, so the blacks would be deeper if using fresh. I've always wanted to do simple positives for art shows - something so simple and cheap that I could demonstrate it easily, so this may evolve into that. Either way, it's a fun experiment that may prove useful later.

[koraks]

I had a brainstorm on what I was failing at doing before
The suspense is killing me!! Are you going to tell what key was? :o

I like that image. I see no blue tint..was this a clear base or did you digitally edit out the blue? I tried some positives (mostly for use as interpositives, really) on xray and it worked decently well, but evidently with a distinctly blue hue to them.

[James R. Kyle]

Jim...
This is GREAT Information.

Thank you.

;-))

[James R. Kyle]

Jim...
This is GREAT Information. On All of your Vids

Thank you.

;-))

[Andrew O'Neill]

I'm still trying to figure out who Jim is...:D

[Tin Can]

Blue Jim

Cheers

us

[Jim Noel]

Thanks very much for your suggestions (and for sharing your safelight idea). My first inclination is that the film is old (there was one batch where the emulsion peeled off as soon as it got wet). The chap who gave it to me did say that it had been sitting around the storage area for some time. Once I've got the laundry completely light tight I'll cut a sheet in darkness for the tank and then do some safelight tests. If the worst case turns out to be age related I'll be content and will work around it as I do with other expired film.

How old is old when it comes top X-ray or ortho film?
I've been using one or the other since I began LF photography about 1938. Much of the film I have used has been more than old, it's been ancient, 20+ years in some cases. When treated correctly, I've never had age fog on these films. I have had fog from incorrect safelights, and tiny light leaks or glowing paint or tape in the darkroom. Don't be careless with it. Treat it right and and it'll treat you right.

[Jim Noel]

And...some results! Well, I cheated though. I recently purchased a 200mm and 250mm Imagon set and I put the 200mm in a Copal 3 shutter I have here collecting dust. Works on the 5x7 and soft focus is nice, but noticeably wider than the Verito, which I needed for group shots. I should've switch to the Verito for this image, but my friend wanted to take a photo of my wife and I dressed up for the occasion, so I just used what was on the camera at the time as I had only about a minute to set this up and show her how to trigger the shutter.

Cropped square though - 5x7 Eastman #2, 200mm Imagon, on Carestream x-ray film:

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjF53jJHdLceshdIsZzgyEaOxtnYW78LUD5w4XPS_VSBLFG7kI_HSQBtFZAAPAc9uG7fwGS5u9SV4EiqflGAt0uRJQ10SRunC7fU_NAFjkC32sxPJhkiN5u1UkfdobsfRk5Nck-Su0rbn6bYIK3Wsomsla6WWQoOSf8_VziAqGopJJhiXzSEBs1b0Kr9Q/s700/1920speakeasy-0986ss.jpg

Which softening adapter did you use for this?

[Corran]

Jim, it's an Imagon 200mm, no strainer disk, wide-open.

koraks, I missed your earlier message. I used a thiourea toner for reversal. This overcomes the blue base and leaves it slightly warm.

[Tin Can]

Very interesting

Process needed

Photographers' Formulary Thiourea cautions and usage well studied

They write of paper conditioning, your 'Blue Be Gone' is needed as my Blue Hair is annoying many

I also realize we are now in a new era of experimenters

Many without applied science education




Jim, it's an Imagon 200mm, no strainer disk, wide-open.

koraks, I missed your earlier message. I used a thiourea toner for reversal. This overcomes the blue base and leaves it slightly warm.

[luiscoll]

Hi!! my english is not very good, sorry
I've been using Rx film for a long time to work, I'll show you the latest, thanks

Bausch & Lomb Zeiss Tessar f4.5 - 300mm
Negativo 4x5 - Agfa Rx
Lights: Electronic flash

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/922/2NWNep.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pm2NWNepj)

[Ron McElroy]

Hi!! my english is not very good, sorry
I've been using Rx film for a long time to work, I'll show you the latest, thanks

Bausch & Lomb Zeiss Tessar f4.5 - 300mm
Negativo 4x5 - Agfa Rx
Lights: Electronic flash

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/922/2NWNep.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pm2NWNepj)

Nice! I like the tonal values on the face.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Recent video using 14x17 XRAY & Gum Over Kallitype print...


https://youtu.be/mbzHbOwRHZs

[luiscoll]

Nice! I like the tonal values on the face.

Thanks!

[James R. Kyle]

A Reformulation of the "Ansco-30" X-Ray Developer =

233569

[Tin Can]

Wonderful video and the 14X17 print IS COLOR I like


Recent video using 14x17 XRAY & Gum Over Kallitype print...


https://youtu.be/mbzHbOwRHZs

[Tin Can]

Missed this

Good work






A Reformulation of the "Ansco-30" X-Ray Developer =

233569

[fotna]

Congratulations on your perseverance.

[Jim Noel]

NIice work!

[James R. Kyle]

Thank you.
;-)

[Rubud]

Best wishes to all for the year.

Still coming to grips with my camera and film but what I would consider my first success (even if mundane :) ).
Agfa Ortho HT-G (exp 2005) EI 80, Crown Graphic, Ektar 127, 1/25s @ f/16, bright overcast mid afternoon. Dev'd Kalogen 1:100 8m patterson tank + Mod 54, 30s initial, 10s each minute. Epson V850 scan on glass, no adjustments.

235254

[Tin Can]

Wonderfull!

The dog needs a camera


Best wishes to all for the year.

Still coming to grips with my camera and film but what I would consider my first success (even if mundane :) ).
Agfa Ortho HT-G (exp 2005) EI 80, Crown Graphic, Ektar 127, 1/25s @ f/16, bright overcast mid afternoon. Dev'd Kalogen 1:100 8m patterson tank + Mod 54, 30s initial, 10s each minute. Epson V850 scan on glass, no adjustments.

235254

[Rubud]

Wonderfull!

The dog needs a camera

Thanks.

That's Ruby (part of my user name is based on her - Buddy, our deceased border collie, being the other part). In most circumstances she runs from cameras - especially when seen in my hand.

[XrayShooter]

I have been using Carestream (formally Kodak) Industrex film and chemistry for Industrial Radiography for over 20 years. The film and chemistry has improved over the years.

Industrex film is blue sensitive, double immulsion (T-Grain technology), and notched for film type identification. Redlight safe. Sizes most commonly used by me are 70mm roll film, 4.5"x17" sheet, and 14"x17" sheet.

For radiography, the film is loaded between lead intensifying screens in lightproof, flexible, cloth cassettes. Film can be cut to other sizes if needed.

After exposure, the film is loaded onto film hangers with clips (the clips put a pinhole on 2-4 corners of the film). The hanger can hold 3 sheets of 4.5", 4 strips of 70mm, or a single 14"x17".

Processing is done in a series of tanks of Industrex Manual Developer for 4 minutes at 68°F to 76°F. Continuous agitation for first 30 seconds, then for 5 seconds every 30 seconds. Indicator Stop Bath (changes color when spent), agitation for 30 seconds. Manual Fixer for 3 minutes, same agitation as Developer. Water wash for 10 minutes. Photo-Flo, agitation for 30 seconds. Dried in a film drier for 10-15 minutes.

We flash ID onto each film prior to loading onto the hanger. Multiple films may also be stapled together to make 17" lengths, if cut to shorter sizes.

Chemistry life... we can process at least 325- 14"x17" sheets in a period of 30 days without a loss in quality/repeatability. Chemistry would require a 25% in volume of Replenishment in that period. Water wash is replaced daily. All chemistry gets replaced after 3-4 months regardless of use.

Tips for minimizing film scratches... wipe down work surfaces prior to handling the film. Fresh cut film is more likely to scratch other film so it's best to load cut film directly into film holders or hangers. The hangers we use are asymmetrical. So, the clips are flush to one side and protrude on the other. They can interlock this way. Using the flush side back to back is safest. The next best option is interlocking. The worst is two protruding clips face to face and most likely to catch clips or scratch film. If the plan is to sight develop, reduce the quantity of hangers in the tank by half.

Red Safelights... we use incandescent bulbs in bullet housings behind Kodak GBX-2 deep red filters. Never had film fogging issues. 40W at 28" above the film handling counter. 25W at 28" above the Stop tank and 48" to the handling counter. 15W at 28" above the Photo-Flo tank and about 28" from Fixer tank.

Performing a Safelight test... unload a 17" strip of film in complete darkness. Place the strip of film under something that will mask its entire length in your working area. Turn on your safelights. Expose the film 1 inch at a time at 1 minute intervals for 16 minutes. Save the last inch as your base fog reference and develop normal time. This will give your safe working time. Our fastest film, AA400, does not fog at 16 minutes with this setup.

MX125 is our slowest film. Ultra fine grain, and very high contrast. Produces very crisp radiographs.

T200 is our mid speed film. Very fine grain, high contrast. Most used film type.

AA400 is our fastest film. Fine grain, high contrast. Our "grainest" film.

I am only some 200 pages into this thread and have done some searches through it too. I noticed not many are using industrial xray film and none using the chemistry. These are the products and the workflow that I will be using in my journey into xray photography. I hope that I provided some insight into my world.


235417

[Jim Noel]

Interesting. I'm certainly going to look into Industrex as I've been a long time Carestream user.

[Tin Can]

I have some Industrix bought without advise

The 5X7 is rare for us, but the huge amount if waste protective packaging turned me off

I also found these NOS which will be handy for 3.5 X 17" when I decide to make a camera to fit

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52676998286_b1f219423f_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ofTomo)Hanger (https://flic.kr/p/2ofTomo) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

[Tin Can]

The medical X-Ray most use is very efficiently packaged

100 films are side by side without interleaving paper per box

I bought cases of 500 sheets very economically

[XrayShooter]

The medical X-Ray most use is very efficiently packaged

100 films are side by side without interleaving paper per box

I bought cases of 500 sheets very economically

Industrex is available with or without the interleaving. We purchase 100 sheets without.

[Tin Can]

I only bought from Iowa, ZZ Medical

They would search for single sided 14X17, I think all long gone

I have all the X-Ray I will ever use, including a case of 14X36" for a project

Many on this forum did not and do not LIKE X-Ray

However many do like it as it is most like 120 year old film!

https://www.zzmedical.com/x-ray-accessories/x-ray-film.html

[XrayShooter]

Yes. I like the look of old film and the challenge of achieving the look using an uncommon medium infinitely more rewarding.

[Tin Can]

Some here like very expired film or plates

126 Years old works

[Eugen Mezei]

The medical X-Ray most use is very efficiently packaged

100 films are side by side without interleaving paper per box

I bought cases of 500 sheets very economically

When your fridge accidentally defreezes you will have a solid block. I prefer them individually packaged. Better against dust too.

Nice hanger, need one myself for the panoramic dental format. (15x30 cm and 5"x12" (=12,7 x 30,5 cm). I have no idea why they have to make two different sizes.)

[Tin Can]

I don't keep much film in fridge and none is frozen

My film will be useable far longer than I am

Carestream has recommended storage temp on the box. Basically the same as an America home

Like I have said many times

Freezing is crazy as the freezer will fail

I did get a tip that a Huge Chicago studio was selling everything

the freezer had failed, All the sealed film was OK. I took it all free, the frozen open was garbage

All was Fuji

I am still shooting the 45 Color Fuji as it has superior sealing as compared to Polaroid

10 years out of date

Calumet Giant film chiller was often on the blink


When your fridge accidentally defreezes you will have a solid block. I prefer them individually packaged. Better against dust too.

Nice hanger, need one myself for the panoramic dental format. (15x30 cm and 5"x12" (=12,7 x 30,5 cm). I have no idea why they have to make two different sizes.)

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50502606137_528a33eff8_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jWK4jz)Auto Maki no 2 150 2.8 Xenotar HRU 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2jWK4jz) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Automatic Makiflex #2 150mm F2.8 Xenotar wide-open 1/15 Fuji 8x10 XRay HRU cut down to 4x5 in Graphmatic back StarD tripod. Development 12 minutes 60F straight Mic-X replenished by inspection of shadow values by deep red safelight. 8x10 Arista #2 RC Omega DII 180 Rodagon f22 35 seconds Omegalite diffusion head Multigrade developer

[XrayShooter]

It's been a struggle dialing in Exposure Index for these films while trying to relearn all the forgotten basics of photography. I thought that I could do it using the same subject and adjusting the settings but the light kept changing before I could finish testing. Sometimes it seems like its one step forward two steps back. I am making progress. Anyhow., here are some early images.

MX125 ISO125 f11 1/125
235545
235546

This one's not a great exposure. I could get either the snow to turn out or the loader to turn out. Not both. Too much bright white and a dark piece of equipment.

MX125 ISO25 f6.7 1/250
235547
235548

This shot was lucky. I had one film left and shot this in the darkroom entirely under an UV-A light source. Just because.

MX125 ISO125 f5.6 2"
235549
235550

[Eugen Mezei]

I don't keep much film in fridge and none is frozen

My film will be useable far longer than I am



Useable and ideal are different things.

[Tin Can]

Of course

Tell us how big is your freezer with picture


Useable and ideal are different things.

[Tin Can]

8X10 X-Ray scanned in color WYSIWYG

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52345826475_c173d01d51_o.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/0R865zBe5y)Mirror Selfie X-Ray Color Scan (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/0R865zBe5y) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

[Andrew O'Neill]

14x17 pinhole accidental double-exposure kallitype... Video: https://youtu.be/B9ALQs9dj0Q

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52691212719_6a9221dded_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2oh9eNP)14x17 Double Exposed Xray Pinhole (https://flic.kr/p/2oh9eNP) by Andrew O'Neill (https://www.flickr.com/photos/62974341@N02/), on Flickr

[Tin Can]

Very very good!



14x17 pinhole accidental double-exposure kallitype... Video: https://youtu.be/B9ALQs9dj0Q

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52691212719_6a9221dded_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2oh9eNP)14x17 Double Exposed Xray Pinhole (https://flic.kr/p/2oh9eNP) by Andrew O'Neill (https://www.flickr.com/photos/62974341@N02/), on Flickr

[Eugen Mezei]

Of course

Tell us how big is your freezer with picture

Which one of them?
At the moment only part of my X-ray is in the freezer, but I intend to buy another one. My color film is all frozen, most of my BW too.

[Roberto Nania]

Hello dears,

After many tests of a proper processing method of my Agfa X-ray sheets I came to a good point by using open tray development and spare processed clear sheets placed at the bottom of each tray. Now I have only one thing to overcome: handling marks. I use a glove to touch the sheets for agitation and to pass them from one tray to the other. This is to avoid clamps that could easily scratch the emulsion. I noted that even by paying attention, some sheets have signs of finger with the texture of the glove.

What method do you use to handle the sheets in open tray processing?

Thank you!

[koraks]

Roberto, you could try using a single tray for the entire process. After development, pour out the developer and pour in the stop bath. Then with stop to fix, the same procedure. That way you don't have to touch the film during processing, only when taking it out of the tray at the end.

[Tin Can]

Generally I am processing 11X14 in 3 smooth bottom trays under red safelight bounced

I don't use gloves, Rodinol 1/100 distilled water, distilled stop, TF5 distilled

As my holders have a generous rebate, I pinch with my tiny fingers only on rebate

Those chems do not bother my bare skin, but I move quickly and wash my fingers very often in wash tanks

ymmv

for tiny format I have special tiny waffle cans and touch nothing as I even dry in the can


I am sensitive to some chems, so I don't use them

Paper I use tongs

I also use various size KODAK film/plate hangers

Glass plates I use a teflon spatula

[Andrew O'Neill]

I use one, flat-bottomed tray for 8x10 and a larger one for 14x17, double-sided film. I wear nitrile gloves. No issues. Another great thing about using one tray is that it is a space-saver, especially for those who have small darkrooms (me). I think I have videos on my youtube channel where I'm working this way...

[LF_Alex]

I only bought from Iowa, ZZ Medical

They would search for single sided 14X17, I think all long gone

I have all the X-Ray I will ever use, including a case of 14X36" for a project

Many on this forum did not and do not LIKE X-Ray

However many do like it as it is most like 120 year old film!

https://www.zzmedical.com/x-ray-accessories/x-ray-film.html

Do they have any X-Ray film with emulsion on one side only?

[Dugan]

Do they have any X-Ray film with emulsion on one side only?

Search for mammography film, it is usually single-sided

[Roberto Nania]

Roberto, you could try using a single tray for the entire process. After development, pour out the developer and pour in the stop bath. Then with stop to fix, the same procedure. That way you don't have to touch the film during processing, only when taking it out of the tray at the end.

That's a good tip, Koraks. Thank you. What about flipping the film one side to the other to refresh the chemicals on the bottom side of the sheet? Do you flip it or just keep it one side up all the time?


Generally I am processing 11X14 in 3 smooth bottom trays under red safelight bounced
I don't use gloves, Rodinol 1/100 distilled water, distilled stop, TF5 distilled
As my holders have a generous rebate, I pinch with my tiny fingers only on rebate
Those chems do not bother my bare skin, but I move quickly and wash my fingers very often in wash tanks
ymmv
for tiny format I have special tiny waffle cans and touch nothing as I even dry in the can
I am sensitive to some chems, so I don't use them
Paper I use tongs
I also use various size KODAK film/plate hangers
Glass plates I use a teflon spatula

Hello Tin, yes, a rapid fixer is good; I cannot purchase P.F. chemicals in Italy, I use standard thiosulfate based fixer at 1+4 dilution. I noticed that my film (AGFA CP-GU) exhausts the fixer quite fast (faster than standard film), giving the solution a yellowish tint.
I will definitely touch the sheets at the very edge.


I use one, flat-bottomed tray for 8x10 and a larger one for 14x17, double-sided film. I wear nitrile gloves. No issues. Another great thing about using one tray is that it is a space-saver, especially for those who have small darkrooms (me). I think I have videos on my youtube channel where I'm working this way...

Thank you Andrew, I have a small darkroom too so this thing of one tray for the whole process appeals me a lot! I will search for the video.

Here below one of the pictures. Note finger tips with the glove texture at the top and right side of the image. I really think that the glove was still wet with the fixer from the previous sheet when I have use it for the next sheet in the developer. I use to wash the glove after processing each sheet; maybe I wash it too fast.

235763

[koraks]

That's a good tip, Koraks. Thank you. What about flipping the film one side to the other to refresh the chemicals on the bottom side of the sheet? Do you flip it or just keep it one side up all the time?


Sorry, I meant to add to my previous post that my approach works well for single sided film, not double sided film.
I tried double sided film initially, but after a couple hundred sheets I decided I didn't like how finicky it was in terms of development (evenness, scratches etc) so I moved to single-sided film instead. It's more expensive and harder to get than the double sided film, though.

I also experimented with stripping the backside emulsion off of double-sided film after processing. This worked of sorts, but it's messy, carries the risk of damage to the image side and is an additional processing step, so I never pursued it very far.

[Tin Can]

Not anymore

I bought a lot when special order were available years ago

I warned for several years that Wet X-Ray is being phased out

Yes industrial X-Ray which is a bit different will survive for steel crack,stress analysis





Do they have any X-Ray film with emulsion on one side only?

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51974286563_336d1ac2d8_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nbMND2)18x24 Mammo Sinar Norma 300 Xenar Arista No 2 RC (https://flic.kr/p/2nbMND2) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Second test of 18x24cm Kodak Min-R XRay film developed 18 minutes at 60F Straight replenished Legacy Mic-X in Cesco trays. 300mm Schneider Xenar barrel lens f22 Yellow Filter. Four pops Broncolor C171 Beauty Light Contact Print 8x10 Arista #2 RC Multigrade dev. Again interesting how the red flowers go deep black. Classic Orthochromatic rendition. 8x10/18x24 Sinar Norma

[Tin Can]

Wonderfull

[Daniel Unkefer]

Thanks Tin Can!

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51964593864_e4d2d244bc_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2naW8kw)18x24 Sinar Norma 300 Xenar F4.5 Rembrandt Lighting (https://flic.kr/p/2naW8kw) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

The cool thing about having multiple Normas, is that you can leave them set up for a while. Getting ready to shoot this one. Classic Rembrandt Lighting, Broncolor Beauty Light pointed straight down from up high as possible. Silver reflector on the floor tilted towards the subject. Lens is 300mm chrome Schneider Xenar, on custom made Norma board. Xenars are lovely to shoot through at near full aperture. The focus blows out behind the front row of petals which I find attractive. Strobe meter says F22 at EI 50 so just one pop will do. Canvas Background is by David Maheu "Kelly Grey" Like it Stormy Grey middle key with no corner vignettes. I can vignette with light if required

The setup for above Mammo exposure ^^^

[Tin Can]

I have scanned many V700 X-Ray films in color

Try Photoshop in color with Blue Tint X-Ray

There are no rules

[Tim Meisburger]

X-Ray Film Primer

Given the price of film these days, I thought I would experiment a little with x-ray film for my 8x10. I looked around the site for a primer, but all there is is the massive x-ray thread, so I started going back through that and taking some notes to help me get started. I present those here for the comments and corrections of the experts, and in the hope they will be of some use to other beginners.

Selecting a Film
Double-sided green sensitive film is the most popular, for its qualities and price. https://www.zzmedical.com/ seems like a good vendor, but its also available on Amazon and ebay. At ZZ, 100 sheets of 8x10 is currently $38. Single-sided mammography film is preferred by some for ease of handling, but is more expensive, and harder to find. Pre-cut film (4x5) can be had from some photo suppliers, but is pricey compared to the raw stuff.

Rating the Film (exposure index)
I found people rating the film from EI 6 al the way up to EI 400. An EI of 50 seems about the average. Time of day outdoors matters, as the film is not sensitive to red, so requires more exposure in the red light of early morning and towards sunset.

Taming Contrast
The film has higher contrast than normal film. Contrast can be reduced by using a yellow filter when shooting. When using a yellow filter, add three stops exposure. Contrast can also be reduced by using low-contrast or highly diluted developers

Developing
Film can be developed under a dim red safelight, although it would be good to test your light. There are specific x-ray film safelights available. The emulsion of the film is soft and scratches easily. Fingerprints are also a concern, so hold film by edges or use nitrile gloves. Develop in glass or plexiglass bottomed trays, or pyrex or enamel baking dishes, to reduce potential for scratches. Can be developed using the one tray method, although this may not be as effective for double-sided as opposed to single sided. Other common development methods are mounting on hangers and developing in tanks.

Suggested developers and times for green double-sided film
• Rodinal 1:100 6 minutes at EI 50 68 degrees Corran #6182
• D-76 1:2 7 minutes at EI 50
• D-23 1:2 7 min 30 sec at EI 50 68 degrees Bob Wagner #6185
• Dektol 1:12 75-90 sec 58-60 Aero #6167

After gaining some experience, most workers seem to practice development by inspection.

Using a Filter on your Lightmeter
The following text is from post #6124 (page 613) from Michael R. The idea behind using a cyan filter on the meter would be to make the meter “see” more like the film does. Loosely speaking, an orthochromatic film can’t see red light, so if the meter can’t see red light either, it might give more useful exposure readings for the film. It’s not going to work perfectly but anyway. A cyan filter such as the Wratten 44A (“minus red”) would be one to try. This assumes no filter on the taking lens.

If you use a yellow filter on the taking lens, to attenuate blue, you’re effectively using mostly green light to expose the film, in which case a green filter on the meter would better approximate how the film sees.

These will only be approximate adjustments due to the inherent differences in spectral sensitivities of the meter and film. Obviously, the specific filter used on the taking lens will affect this.

Comparing X-Ray to Regular Film
LFPF Member Andrew O’Neill made a great video comparing regular and x-ray film. This video also shows the development process. The video is available at post #6070, or on youtube at this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VwiVKDoE68&ab_channel=AnalogueAndy%E3%82%A2%E3%83%8A%E3%83%AD%E3%82%B0%E3%82%A2%E3%83%B3%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3

Cutting Film
I didn’t get any notes on this, so if anyone knows a particular post describing cutting film to size, let me know and I’ll add.

[j.e.simmons]

I’ve used X-Ray film since about 2008. I think you have a very good summary. The only thing I’d add is that tanning developers such as Pyrocat, ABC Pyro, 510 Pyro, etc. may help reduce scratches.

[Tin Can]

I have posted my cutting method many times

I use dedicated cheapest Dahle to reduce dust and the unique film holder downer never scratches 12" and 18' does it all

https://www.dahle.com/trimmer/item/12e

One sheet at a time

[Fr. Mark]

Mammography film also has an anti-halation layer, which can be helpful, too. I vote for pyrocat-hd: it is helpful for non-silver UV contact printing. Light at the start or the end of the day or "warm" interior lights require more exposure, often much more b/c there's less of the UV/Blue (and maybe green it depends on the film) in the light. I've been without a darkroom for a long time. I need to get back to it.

[Roberto Nania]

Great summary Tim,
I just want to add two hints based on my personal experience:
- Pre-processed blank sheets of film may be used on the bottom of regular trays to avoid scrathes, in place of glass or plexiglas.
- Considering the high cost of Metol and D76 in Europe, I use HC110 with good results. This are my personal times:
1+39, 4' at 20°C, tray processing, continuos agitation, film exposed at 25 / 16 iso.
1+63, 7' at 20°C (take into account that higher diluition will run-out faster, make your calculations on the residual strenght based on the amount of the solution when processing multiple sheets with it).

Inviato dal mio SM-A202F utilizzando Tapatalk

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50378155288_fda5e13f91_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jKKdqh)HRU Makiflex Std Mic-X 240 f4.5 Tele-Arton (https://flic.kr/p/2jKKdqh) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Plaubel Makiflex Standard camera 240mm F5.5 chrome barrel mount Schneider Tele-Arton at F22. One pop of Broncolor Pulso C171 monolight strobe with Broncolor Pulso Beauty Dish. No fill. 8x10 Fuji HR-U XRay film cut into 4x5s straight Microdol-X replenished in a tray development by inspection under custom red light. 4x5 Lisco Regal holder. 8x10 RC Aristo #2 Multigrade dev Omega DII with diffusion Omegalite head. The background is canvas I painted myself with medium grey water based paint. Applied with a brush

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50371891118_9c12373511_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jKc7im)MINR XRay Test 1 210mm Componon F22 Two Pops C171 (https://flic.kr/p/2jKc7im) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

18x24cm Kodak MIN-R Mammography film cut into 4x5s. Sinar Norma Broncolor C171 with Broncolor Pulso Beauty Dish. Two strobe pops with Sinar Norma Shutter, multiple pops are no problem. Schneider chrome Componon lens at F22. Lisco Regal 4x5 film holder. Legacy Mic-X film dev 8 mins at 68F Aristo 8x10 #2 RC print Multigrade dev. This is fun :)

[Fr. Mark]

I like the orchids!

[Daniel Unkefer]

Thanks Fr. Mark !

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50376431731_93523e2a72_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jKAo4M)HRU Fixing Step Dental Clips 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2jKAo4M) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

I've decided to use these Dental Clips I bought on Ebay, to hold down two sheets in the Cesco flat bottomed trays, and keep them off the bottom, and keeping them from moving around (which scratches!) Here two sheets are in the TD4 Fix. The 8x10 Cesco Flat Bottomed Trays are inexpensive and available from B&H

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50376433896_a8e48dc3e5_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jKAoH7)HRU Wash Step Dental Clips 2 (https://flic.kr/p/2jKAoH7) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Here the two sheets are moving into the wash tray. This has caused a lot of grief, if a sheet touches ANYTHING it is scratched with HRU. The sheets are well distanced, off the bottom, and can get a decent wash without getting scratched. XRAY clips are available on Ebay.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50375746378_8b31be3f5e_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jKwSkm)HRU Dry Step Dental Clips 3 (https://flic.kr/p/2jKwSkm) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

When I go to the dry step, I move both clips to opposite ends. So the water can drain off properly. I have made many runs this way, with only one scratch (my fault). Getting perfect sheets with HRU no defects is not an easy matter. So far I can see no reason to not continue tray processing in this way

[Jim Noel]

I have used dental clips for 30-40 years. They are hard to beat. When used during development I place one on each corner. My source has always been dentists who are moving to digital x-rays, thus free.

[JefW]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52738954698_797c0defd1_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ommVQo)corn husk dolls 2020 update (https://flic.kr/p/2ommVQo) by Jeff Wingard (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36075970@N05/), on Flickr

corn-husk dolls updated for the 2020s
Fuji HR-U 8x10 X ray film at iso100,
in Rodinal 1:50; 9:30 at 68f

[Tin Can]

Very good!

We had sock monkeys




https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52738954698_797c0defd1_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ommVQo)corn husk dolls 2020 update (https://flic.kr/p/2ommVQo) by Jeff Wingard (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36075970@N05/), on Flickr

corn-husk dolls updated for the 2020s
Fuji HR-U 8x10 X ray film at iso100,
in Rodinal 1:50; 9:30 at 68f

[JefW]

Very good!

We had sock monkeys

Thank you!

[George E. Sheils]

Hi folks,

I have used Fuji HRU x-ray film in Rodinal (R09) 1:200 for 11 minutes at 20 degrees C with good results. However, I ran out of R09 and have a bottle of Ilfotec DDX handy. Does anybody know or have any details on times and dilution for HRU in DDX?

Thanks in advance,
George.

[Tin Can]

https://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php

I use these charts for a start


Hi folks,

I have used Fuji HRU x-ray film in Rodinal (R09) 1:200 for 11 minutes at 20 degrees C with good results. However, I ran out of R09 and have a bottle of Ilfotec DDX handy. Does anybody know or have any details on times and dilution for HRU in DDX?

Thanks in advance,
George.

[George E. Sheils]

Thanks TC.

I usually use the Massive Dev Chart but couldn't see anything on it that featured DDX. I know that i can develop by inspection and go from there but I didn't want to re-invent the wheel if someone already has a tried and trusted dilution for the HRU and DDX combination.

[Tin Can]

You can do it. Aren't you a tech writer for this industry?

I never run out of Rodinol and if I did I would use Ilford PQ

[pitotshock]

First thing, this thread is insane. Don't know if I have enough time in my life to make it through all of this. Next, thanks for those who have put summary posts in to help us relative newcomers.. ;)

I jumped in and ordered a couple of boxes of 8x10 to give it a try this summer. Still working on the development sequence just yet, but I'm planning on using dip tank hangers in 8x10 to reduce scratching. I have the old Kodak rubber tanks, but at 4gal solution each that is a lot of chems and I doubt I'm going do enough shooting to make it worth while. I'm looking to get the smaller 1 gal stainless type or I'll make my own out of acrylic. We'll see how that goes.



239130

[MAubrey]

First thing, this thread is insane. Don't know if I have enough time in my life to make it through all of this. Next, thanks for those who have put summary posts in to help us relative newcomers.. ;)

I jumped in and ordered a couple of boxes of 8x10 to give it a try this summer. Still working on the development sequence just yet, but I'm planning on using dip tank hangers in 8x10 to reduce scratching. I have the old Kodak rubber tanks, but at 4gal solution each that is a lot of chems and I doubt I'm going do enough shooting to make it worth while. I'm looking to get the smaller 1 gal stainless type or I'll make my own out of acrylic. We'll see how that goes.



239130

I made an Acrylic 1 gal talk for 11x14 that works well. Still a lot of developer, but if I expose all three of my holders, it comes out alright.

[chris73]

Just to add my 1 cent tip as i think it was never mentioned before.
For 1 negative at a time, i use stryrofoam trays with great success so far, as they are soft and lightweight.

[arri]

I have a lot of old and antique lenses and after cleaning an adjusting I have to test´em.
For this I´am using the Fujifilm UM-MA in 18x24cm or cut it to 4x 9x12cm sheets with a Dahle trimmer.
I tested it with some different developers but the real best for it is the Klaus Wehner Developer, a new formular Agfa Atomal.

Developing times are equal to the ilford FP4+
I´am using a Tetenal colour drum to develope two sheets of 18x24cm

After a lot of test shots I really like this film. With uncoated lenses it has very good halftones, it shows no grain and is easy to handle. It´s a sSingle coated x-ray film.
With MC coated lenses the contrasts are growing up and the grey scale is limited, single coated maybe works, very good results I got with a Schneider Symmar 300mm and an Rodenstock Eurygon 300mm f/4.5

Here´s a sample made with an over 100 years old Emil Busch Aplanat 260mm f/7.5 @f/16. No camera movements.
Sinar Norma 18x24cm, rear lens shutter, 1/2sec.
Wehner Developer, 8.5min. Delution 15ml+15ml+270ml

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52989653919_2cd68acc56_k.jpg

[Tin Can]

Another thought about X-Ray, is it is very modern film that is also Orthochromatic which is close to ancient film 'look'

so our ageless gear has correct film

I beleive the members shouting about fresh film, frozen film, Plates

DIY emulsions

want others to save...

We are in a moment in time before film and chemistry is banned World Wide

We have 2525 song

https://youtu.be/izQB2-Kmiic

[Alan Townsend]

Greetings from a new user of this forum.

I just took the plunge and received a 100 sheet box of 8x10 Fuji HR-U green two sided film from an ebay dealer, and have had good early results cutting down to 4x5 and processing in D23 1:3 8-10 min., although somewhat dense. One thing I've learned from researching the green films, is that the blue base is partly for reducing eye strain, but also to reduce feedback from the phosphors on one side of the film with the emulsion on the other side, which makes sense. I assume, therefore, that in photography use, sharper results would occur when using a yellow, green, or orange filter which would reduce the amount of bluish light passing through the film. The fuzziness of these films is concerning to me. My initial impression of my negatives is how disturbing the blue base is to me, and how unimpressed I am with sharpness using a 10x loupe.

My testing with a K2 yellow filter gives me a 1 stop exposure loss, and a mild impression of better detail. Can others comment on this please? I have read backwards through this thread about 7 or 8 years and found nothing on this. I do mostly woodland landscape photography.

I processed using sandwich sized zip lock bags, which worked very well and gave zero scratches. In the past, I've used Arista Ortho Litho 3.0 costing 40 cents per sheet and Injet Media Regency Royal which is very similar, but costing 20 cents per sheet (4x5). Based on testing, I use them both at ei2, process in D23 1:7 for 2-4 minutes using constant agitation. I also use them for darkroom work. These types of film worked well for me in southern Arizona, but not so well in the midwest woodlands where there is so much less light. I much prefer the 10 cents per sheet cost of Fuji HR-U, the much higher speed (100), and the processing ease of being much lower in contrast, so don't mind the 2-sided fragility.

My plan is to routinely process using my old Doran Sheet Film daylight tank to process 12 sheets at a time using D23 1:7 in 10-12 minute range. I can develop, fix, wash, and dry without removing the fims using a small fan circulating air into the tank lying on its side. My observation is that the xray film is sensitive to over agitation. The ortho litho films are the opposite, being sensitive to under agitation when processed for low contrast. Those old plastic 4x5 processing tanks like the Doran or Yankee are wonderful provided you don't agitate hardly at all. This sure is fun

[Tin Can]

Welcome!

[Andrew O'Neill]

If you go back more than 7-8 years (15?), you'll see a post where I try yellow and green filters. The film always looked better when a yellow filter is used instead of none. I believe I also talked about the zip lock bag method but abandoned it in favour of flat- bottomed trays. Zero scratches. I do up to 14x17, always double sided green. Double-sided will always be slightly unsharp compared to single-sided, but it still has a look that I really dig. I have a few videos on my YouTube channel, and will add many more in the near future! :o
Welcome to the forum!

[Alan Townsend]

Thanks, Analog Andy and Tin Can for the welcome. It was your Analog Andy youtube videos on this topic that got me interested in xray. The one using your custom 14 by 17 with yellow filter and contact printing VanDyke Brown. I enjoy your videos, especially the carbon printing series.

I have read in this record length thread others using cheap plastic 4x5 daylite tanks for double sided film processing. Kinda like having a dozen cut film holders. My old Doran has been in storage for 20 years along with all my other film photography gear. Many example photos on flikr using 4x5 HR-U look sharp enough for 3-4X enlargement, so am heading that direction.

[Tin Can]

Andy IS an expert!

I just try to have fun

I use a DIY Gas Burst system with Rodinol, distilled water and TF5

I use KODAK hangers only

4 up 8X10, 8 up 5X7, and 16 up 4X5

The most fun is 2X3 sheet in a Can with waffle, an actual rare method

10 in a SS can, usually roll film

Next up 14X36" X Ray 2X

I see saw that in a tray

and of course weak Red Led safe light on all X-Ray

I even dry in the can

[j.e.simmons]

I’ve always used a K1 or K2 filter with green X-ray film.

[Alan Townsend]

Tin Can and xray film repurposers,

I've been using these 6W LED Lamps as ortho safelights: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09WDNSDJM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

Current price is $5.99 for a two pack. These lamps are internally true red LED and have red bulb filter as well. Do not fog ortho litho film at 3 ft. distance. Do not fog FUJI HR-U indirectly at 8 feet with film exposed face up for 12 minutes.

The are not claimed to be safelights but work very well. FYI I continue to use caution. Thanks for all the information.

[Tin Can]

I use 1 or 2 watt and bounce it



Tin Can and xray film repurposers,

I've been using these 6W LED Lamps as ortho safelights: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09WDNSDJM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

Current price is $5.99 for a two pack. These lamps are internally true red LED and have red bulb filter as well. Do not fog ortho litho film at 3 ft. distance. Do not fog FUJI HR-U indirectly at 8 feet with film exposed face up for 12 minutes.

The are not claimed to be safelights but work very well. FYI I continue to use caution. Thanks for all the information.

[Alan Townsend]

Another though I've concerning repurposing xray film for photography concerns light meters. This comment relates to orthochromatic films in general, not just green xray. Some use a cyan filter over tradition silicon meter cell. If only some smart phone app would turn off that pesky red channel data.

CdS photocells are still available in the US. I just got a bag of 30 on Amazon for about six bucks. These are outlawed in Europe now and will likely be unavailable in the US soon. Stock up soon. Many older cameras and light meters use them.

These cells have a similar frequency reponse to light as does orthochromatic films, blue and green sensitivity with little red response. They make excellent ortho light meters. All you need is a CdS cell and a electronic multimeter set to read ohms and a way to calibrate it. Find the reciprocal of resistance by dividing 1 by the resistance and you get the conductance of the cell, which is nearly linear with respect to light input over a broad range. Good for camera meter, darkroom enlarging meter, densitomer, etc. Acurrate enough for most uses when used with some some care, and dirt cheap in price, kinda like xray film.

Many years ago, guessing 45, I had a Popular Science, or was it Science and Mechanics photo meter, which consisted of several CdS cells, a meter unit with a needle, and a circular slide rule gadget that allowed using this for camera, enlarging, or densitometer. It was very cool in it's time, and worked well. Any body out there remember these? Just a few thoughts.

[Tin Can]

I shot 35 color for many years using Kodak instructions INSIDE the box

No meter from the 50's

Almost all slides perfect and I still have them

[Alan Townsend]

Tin Can,

Oops those instruction must have fallen out of my box of Fuji HR-U cause I didn't find them. :)

I agree it's good to use simple ways when possible. In my woodland photography, I'm almost never in full sun, or even open shade, or anywhere else on that box. In the field, I don't like to use the zone system. Instead, I under develop and overexpose about a stop and then use the zone system in my darkroom in making enlarged negatives to match a particular alternate process. Currently, I'm using the Liam Lawless reversal process of ortho litho film to do this but will probably experiment with xray film for this in the future.

I need an accurate darkroom meter to do darkroom zone system, which I've always believed in, but rarely actually done. My CdS cell and ohmeter provide this. This is a big advantage of enlarged negatives, the opportunity to adjust contrast to match printing papers. Darkroom trial and error exposure and contrast control can be extremely time consuming.

Ortho Litho film in the camera, even with lowest contrast development, gives too much contrast for the Liam Lawless method to adjust down to a 1.4 density range. This is the main reason I am now experimenting with xray film is its much higher sensitivity and much lower contrast.

I do not want to start using Fomapan until I absolutely have to.

[AlcaldeWetPlate]

Tin Can and xray film repurposers,

I've been using these 6W LED Lamps as ortho safelights: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09WDNSDJM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

Current price is $5.99 for a two pack. These lamps are internally true red LED and have red bulb filter as well. Do not fog ortho litho film at 3 ft. distance. Do not fog FUJI HR-U indirectly at 8 feet with film exposed face up for 12 minutes.

The are not claimed to be safelights but work very well. FYI I continue to use caution. Thanks for all the information.

Good day all. Following on reading this I investigated what could be found in my area of Victoria Canada. Home depot had a color selectable led light with a red setting. I find this to be way to bright in my grow tent darkroom. I found a FEIT 4.5 watt red led light bulb at Lowes. It has the advantage of being dimmable. I also found a Lowes an extension cord equipped with a led dimming switch. Together I am able to go from off to barely on and then steplessly to full on. In a reflector housing this gives me all the light versatility I need. I corresponded with FEIT electric and requested a spectral emission data for this bulb. I reproduce this below. I have also added the spectral sensitivity for the Fuji X-ray film I use as well as that for Ilford ortho film for comparison purposes.

Regards

[Tin Can]

I usw my Sekonic spot meter all the time for falloff afd make simple center filters for enlarging

simple masks too

[Tin Can]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09WDNSDJM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

testing soon

[Andrew O'Neill]

Tin Can and xray film repurposers,

I've been using these 6W LED Lamps as ortho safelights: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09WDNSDJM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

Current price is $5.99 for a two pack. These lamps are internally true red LED and have red bulb filter as well. Do not fog ortho litho film at 3 ft. distance. Do not fog FUJI HR-U indirectly at 8 feet with film exposed face up for 12 minutes.

The are not claimed to be safelights but work very well. FYI I continue to use caution. Thanks for all the information.

Excellent! Thank you for the link to the LED bulbs!

[Andrew O'Neill]

I was at the dentist for cleaning and checkup yesterday. I was pleased to see that they still use xray film. :)

[Rick A]

My previous dentist went digital, missed a cavity that went undiscovered until my new dentist saw it ON FILM. Sensitive tooth is now fixed.

[Alan Townsend]

Sorry to hear about dental problems. The FUJI HR-U I recently purchased 100 sheets 8x10 from an ebay dealer for $42 with shipping included comes from Australia, according to box information.

While here in the US, most medical use is shifting or has shifted to digital, this is not happening worldwide for obvious economic reasons. In the US, we have the worst medical care at the highest possible cost of any country on earth. I'm sure that China and India will remain xray film users for many years. Countries with national health care system, may also do the same for cost control in various degrees. In the US, rural health care, and portable services will continue its use. I believe xray film will be around for quite some time, maybe 10-20 years or more. Also veterinarians.

Fortunately, Xray is a contact printing process, since xrays are not imaged with lenses, so requires very large films. From my reading, xray film exposes patients to less radiation, provided a single exposure is adequate. Xray use recycles silver very effectively well, since they do scan the xrays for archiving. Imagine the cost of a 14 by 17 digital sensor.

[Eugen Mezei]

What about using a red laser as darkroom light? I see laser modules on sale for different wavelenghts, including red ones. They are specified for an exact wavelenght, so this could be an advantage.
Is my idea stupid or could it work? I see some of the lasers are unfocussed, I guess these have a larger beam and oriented to the ceiling maybe it could work.

[Alan Townsend]

What about using a red laser as darkroom light? I see laser modules on sale for different wavelenghts, including red ones. They are specified for an exact wavelenght, so this could be an advantage.
Is my idea stupid or could it work? I see some of the lasers are unfocussed, I guess these have a larger beam and oriented to the ceiling maybe it could work.

Eugen, that could work provided they output a few watts of light. Are they affordable at that power level? Also, the laser speckles could be a problem, since they make it harder to see details.

[Fr. Mark]

I don’t think a red laser would be a good choice for a darkroom light: too bright, too focused. Lasers want to be linear. A few watts of laser light would be extremely dangerous because of the focused nature. Light bulbs radiate in all directions, so they don’t get dangerous at a few watts. Laser pointers are 1/1000th of a watt or so, I think. This thread has at least one discussion of LED low power red bulbs as darkroom lights. I’m pretty sure you will need to order them from a special dealer on line.

[Eugen Mezei]

Eye protection was one of my concerns. Therefore my question if pointing the Laser to the ceiling or otherwise dipsersing it would still leave it dangerous?

The big advantage is ofcourse the exact wavelenght.

Laser modules are all over the place on eBay and Aliexpress. Different powers, different wavelenghts. I thought buying one that is less powerfull. I saw some that are offered without focusing lens, specially mentioned that they are for wide radiation. It is true those are mostly for IR, intended as IR luminators for IR googles.
I will post some links later.

As a first try I could see how a laser pointer works. (Especially how to disperse it.) But there I do not know the wavelenght. Did anybody already tried this?

[Tin Can]

A Laser is always dangerous

It can reflect

just don't

kill eyes

[Eugen Mezei]

Well, in the end it is just light. If not concentrated, how does it affect your eyes? The things are in discotheques (clubs they call them nowaday) and there they are a concentrated beam, still approved for public use.

[Alan Townsend]

What I find online, is that the red lasers today are limited to about 5mw, which is very low. You can get a bag of 20 for low price, this is much more expensive than the red led bulbs I referenced and am using and there is no advantage for darkroom use. The focused beams could like fog film. Used indirectly, laser speckle is a real problem.

I did see violet/blue 405 nM lasers available for $20 that are 100mW. Those would work for dichromated gelatin holography within the limits of their short coherence length.

Anbody interested in holography? Not me anymore but have at it.

Alan Townsend

[Tin Can]

I went to Chicago's HoloGram Museum some years ago

[Ivan Pisarev]

Hello.
AGFA mamoray hdr-c plus.
cut to 4x5
I do not have much experience in using Agfa, but maybe someone will be interested...
240980
ISO 50, Kodak D-23 1:1 9 min. in Jobo 2500 constant agitation.

240981
ISO 50, Kodak D-23 1:2 5.5 min. in Jobo 2500 constant agitation.

[j.e.simmons]

I see X-ray film has gone up about $12 a box and there is no longer a discount for case lots.

[Tin Can]

Still very cheap Ortho

Stock up



I see X-ray film has gone up about $12 a box and there is no longer a discount for case lots.

[dvanmet]

I just bought the ISO 10 Orthochromatic film from B&H and am trying to locate developing times for PMK Pyro. Anyone have anything on this combo?
Thx,
David

[Eugen Mezei]

Another silly question: Could those ir lamps used for heating be of use in the lab? They emit red light but I dont know if only that or white light also.

[chris73]

Another silly question: Could those ir lamps used for heating be of use in the lab? They emit red light but I dont know if only that or white light also.

Bounce the light on a cd/dvd surface and see if there are present other colors than red.

[the4x5project]

Another silly question: Could those ir lamps used for heating be of use in the lab? They emit red light but I dont know if only that or white light also.

Why do you not order those:
https://www.fotoimpex.com/darkroom/adox-supersafe-220-darkroom-light.html

I have them installed in simple IKEA lamps and they work fine. To be sure I illuminate the white ceiling and walls with them only.

Hope this helps.

[j.e.simmons]

Why do you not order those:
https://www.fotoimpex.com/darkroom/adox-supersafe-220-darkroom-light.html

I have them installed in simple IKEA lamps and they work fine. To be sure I illuminate the white ceiling and walls with them only.

Hope this helps.

I see they are good for paper, but I don't see a reference to X-Ray film. Have you tested with film and found them safe?

[Eugen Mezei]

Why do you not order those:
https://www.fotoimpex.com/darkroom/adox-supersafe-220-darkroom-light.html
I have them installed in simple IKEA lamps and they work fine. To be sure I illuminate the white ceiling and walls with them only.


The reason is, I already have the IR lamps. (And can buy more of them locally.) Ordering from Fotoimpex would mean around 30 €.
Besides that, I am curious.

[Eugen Mezei]

I have bought a kit (developer + fixer) for X-ray film. Looking at the chemical composition I see in neither of them a hardener. I thought X-ray film is hardened when developing, either in the developer or at least in the fixer.

[j.e.simmons]

I think X-Ray film is just prone to scratches when wet. I doubt hardener in fixer does much good as the film has already been wet in the developer and stop for several minutes. I think being careful with process is better than depending on chemicals.

[Eugen Mezei]

Still hardener for fixer exist. On the bottle of the Tetenal hardener they even give the time for X-ray film. (They are longer as for normal film.)
Did I have with you the discussion on Flickr? (In the Polypan-F group.) As there were also two posters thinking that the hardening effect dissapears after the film is dry.

[j.e.simmons]

I don't use Flicker. I don't say the hardening effect disappears. The film becomes really prone to scratching when wet - thus it can scratch in the developer and stop long before it gets to the fixer. Hardening fixer is fine to use but may not stop scratches.

[the4x5project]

I see they are good for paper, but I don't see a reference to X-Ray film. Have you tested with film and found them safe?

Yes, I did. Works fine with x-Ray and all things orthochromatic.

[Alan Townsend]

Things I like about Xray film, other than cost. (green HR-U)

1. After processing, this film lies flatter than any film I've ever used (4x5), even though it's a bit thinner than normal photo film. Likely due to being equally coated on both sides. Open frame negative carriers in enlarger work OK. No need for single glass carriers.

2. Loss of sharpness compared with normal photo film is likely due to halation. This film doesn't scatter light very much but is very reflective compared with normal films. This favors use of very small f-stops like f-32 over larger, due to smaller cones of light. I get pretty good sharpness from 3x enlargements.

3. Develops nicely with low agitation. This allows semi-compensating developers to produce better sharpness. D23 at 1:7 dilution for 20 mins. at STP works well at ei 100 in Doran developing tank with 12 films at a time. Almost a stand development. Yankee tank would be similar.

3. Fixes quickly (5 min.) in low concentration plain fixer. I use about 30 grams sodium thiosulphate per 52 fluid ounces. This low concentration washes out very fast as well.

4. I remove films from tank after washing and hang to dry. Drying in tank holder takes too long, about 4 days, so I stopped doing that. Careful and slow extraction gives few scratches or mars along edges.

Alan Townsend

[arri]

Fujifilm UM-MA xray film.
Wehner Developer
Pre exposure with zone 2
Illumination with two LED light sources.
Rodenstock Aplanat 8/320mm @f/22
Ratio 1.2:1
Cutted 9x12cm sheets.
Sinar Norma 4x5

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53089243125_4b2b689b66_k.jpg

[Tin Can]

Winter work!




Fujifilm UM-MA xray film.
Wehner Developer
Pre exposure with zone 2
Illumination with two LED light sources.
Rodenstock Aplanat 8/320mm @f/22
Ratio 1.2:1
Cutted 9x12cm sheets.
Sinar Norma 4x5

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53089243125_4b2b689b66_k.jpg

[Daniel Unkefer]

Arri,
How do you make the Wehner Developer? Are you developing the HRU as positives? This is eye opening.
So you are preflashing the XRAY film with a Zone II value? I imagine that would build up the toe.

[Tin Can]

https://www.flickr.com/groups/2808569@N23/

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://www.flickr.com/groups/2808569@N23/

OK. I know Robert. Thanks.

[arri]

Arri,
How do you make the Wehner Developer? Are you developing the HRU as positives? This is eye opening.
So you are preflashing the XRAY film with a Zone II value? I imagine that would build up the toe.

I´am using the standard B&W developer from Klaus Wehner, my stnadard, it works perfect for me with every film.

I tested the film with preflashing with different values. In this case Zone II gave the best results. it must be in relation to the contrast in the object. The same problem we have with every film but the xray film is working with more contrast. That´s why I´am using only uncoated lenses to lighten up the shadows and using pre exposure.
I have only tested it with this film, maybe the other xray films are working different.

In the early 1990th I used lith films with uncoated fast lenses like the Xenar 3.5/240mm and it were possible to get a grey scale with this extrem high contrast films.
I find it is much easier with a xray film.

[arri]

Winter work!

It were bad weather work, we have had rain for over two weeks, it were ok, we need the water and I used the time for lens and film testing.

[Ivan Pisarev]

AGFA mamoray HDR-C plus.
cut to 4x5.
ISO 50, Kodak D-23 1:4 6 min., 20 (ºC), in Jobo 2500 constant agitation.
243007

[Randy]

243007
Quite lovely.

[Kimberly A]

Wow, so 645 pages in and this topic is WELL covered. Many thanks to those who have done the hard, and apparently somewhat controversial legwork.

I am an experienced photographer in many ways, and won't say much more than that. I am however, new to shooting X-ray film in a camera. I have a box of the Fuji Green in 8x10 coming this week. I will be playing with it alongside paper negatives which I have been shooting since the 90's.

I am very comfortable mixing developers from scratch and doing my own testing. My densitometer is stuck in storage in Utah right now, so I won't be able to plot the x-ray film and compare developers. My end goals are to make both GSP's as well as pt/pd contact prints. I have a 'Dorff 8x10 and a Korona 12x20 as my main landscape cameras.

So, the question is, has anyone done any curve testing of the green and/or blue film with the various developers (and apparently yellow is the filter of choice with the green film)?

If this is ground which is well trodden, I apologize. I have found many threads where each practitioner has their developer/filtration/developing method of choice, and am having a difficult time deciding which developer to use. I will tray develop them one sheet at a time.

Thanks again and bravo to the brave ones who have stuck with this media for so long.

[j.e.simmons]

I think a lot of developers will work just fine depending on what you want and what you prefer. Sorry if that's vague, but that's my take from the thread. Personally, I use Pyrocat in a tank with hangers. I find that works best for me. It's my experience, for me, that the film almost never scratches with this method. I believe from my own experience and from reading this thread, that the Pyrocat tans the emulsion and that helps prevent scratches. I think hardening fixer, which some propose, comes too late in the process - there are plenty of opportunities to scratch during development and stop.

It also helps that I have used this developer for a long time with traditional films, so maybe I'm biased. There are other developers that would also tan the emulsion.

I think you really have to work out your own system.
Good luck.
John

[Tin Can]

I confess I don't experiment much anymore

I just do, using very simple process

[Brian Bullen]

Hi Kimberly, I also use pyrocat and film hangers to develop 8x10. It works extremely well for GSP’s and palladium. Pyrocat, for me, is cost effective and works beautifully as I only use a minuscule amount of solution A and B added to about 4 liters of water. I develop 5 sheets at a time. I have also processed 11x14 and 14x17 in tray, and for me a larger sheet of old lith film in the bottom protected the x-ray film from getting scratched. The old lith film was nice too because I could carry the X-ray film on top of it to the next tray and never had a single scratch using this technique. Never had any luck developing more than one sheet of the larger film in a tray, anytime I added more sheets there were always developing issues.

[Kimberly A]

I am very, very familiar with Pyro developers. I am happy to hear Brian and J.E. are both having good success with Pyrocat. I will get my chems in order and plan to start using pyrocat for my own tray developing in flat-bottomed trays. Any pointers for ISO and filtration? I was going to start with a medium yellow and ISO 100-ish? I have 100 sheets and it is very inexpensive, and I will do some ring-around tests when I get close to the ISO which is usable.

Thanks for both of your posts!

[Eugen Mezei]

has anyone done any curve testing of the green and/or blue film with the various developers

The producers themselves have published curves. Problem is finding them. I so far have some for Kodak, but did not search for Fuji and Agfa, maybe in the future. Ofcourse they give curves for their own developer that they mention only by name. From the data sheet of the developer you can guess what type of developer it is, but I have not seen exact recipies. Although there should not be much difference between developers intended for X-ray development. On the other side, maybe for the emulsions with T crystals they did use special developers.

[Brian Bullen]

I shoot at iso 125 and use no filtration. My current X-ray film is Kodak S-ra but have used several different kinds and they all seem about the same, I mostly use natural light and use a Packard shutter. 243231243232243233
The first image is silver gelatin and the second is cyanotype that is tea toned. These prints are just test prints, to see what is possible. Third image is another cyanotype tea toned. I haven’t done a palladium print in a number of years but find cyanotype and palladium pretty similar as far as negative contrast is concerned.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50964223947_0538c9e8b2_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kDwYdk)Makina II HRU Handheld (https://flic.kr/p/2kDwYdk) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

6.5x9cm Plaubel Makina II HANDHELD Fuji HRU cut from 8x10. RADA plate holder with film insert, Plaubel Yellow filter. 1/200 at f6. 5x7 Aristo #2 Omega DII 4x5 glass carrier Multigrade developer. I produced four perfect negatives from this shoot. Successful test with no scratches. This film scratches very easilty

[Alan Townsend]

Wow, so 645 pages in and this topic is WELL covered. Many thanks to those who have done the hard, and apparently somewhat controversial legwork.

I am an experienced photographer in many ways, and won't say much more than that. I am however, new to shooting X-ray film in a camera. I have a box of the Fuji Green in 8x10 coming this week. I will be playing with it alongside paper negatives which I have been shooting since the 90's.

I am very comfortable mixing developers from scratch and doing my own testing. My densitometer is stuck in storage in Utah right now, so I won't be able to plot the x-ray film and compare developers. My end goals are to make both GSP's as well as pt/pd contact prints. I have a 'Dorff 8x10 and a Korona 12x20 as my main landscape cameras.

So, the question is, has anyone done any curve testing of the green and/or blue film with the various developers (and apparently yellow is the filter of choice with the green film)?

If this is ground which is well trodden, I apologize. I have found many threads where each practitioner has their developer/filtration/developing method of choice, and am having a difficult time deciding which developer to use. I will tray develop them one sheet at a time.

Thanks again and bravo to the brave ones who have stuck with this media for so long.

Kimberly,

Welcome to the downtrodden world of xray photography, where we get only one message to tack onto 10K times. Are you getting HR-U? Likely a T-grained emulsion from my research.

I've done a few curves by hand, but don't share as a rule, since I use non-standard scales. Pyrocat is used mostly by people who want different densities for alternate process vs silver prints. Higher contrast in UV vs visible light. I doubt they toughen the extremely soft emulsions on both sides of the film enough to make any processing difference. Personally, I refuse to use any pyro developer due to health concerns. These films are designed for higher contrast than camera films and are coated on both sides which complicates processing. Lower energy developers and careful handling are required.

For single sheet tray developing you need flat bottomed trays, or a sheet of glass or plexiglass to flatten a normal tray bottom. Ziplock poly bags also work well. D-23 diluted from 1:3 to 1:7 is a good soft-working developer that likely gives greater resolution at higher dilutions to these lower-than-normal resolution films, their main shortcoming to me. Yellow or green filters give slightly better sharpness. Yellow will take 2x versus about 4x exposure times for green.

Determining exposure times for this ortho film is difficult for many. I bought an old Gossen Luna-Pro for this, and am getting better results than I did with a phone app. CdS cells are similarly orthochromatic. Some use yellow or green filters over their meters. You will need to calibrate everything for your own custom use including developer, metering, lens shutter and aperture, etc. Great for DIY types.

I use very dilute (30g/liter) plain fixer, and find the film clears very quickly in about 3 minutes, so suspect the film is very thin and soft. When dry, it handles like any film, but stays much flatter due to double coating. Have fun with your new toys.

Alan Townsend

[Andrew O'Neill]

I am very, very familiar with Pyro developers. I am happy to hear Brian and J.E. are both having good success with Pyrocat. I will get my chems in order and plan to start using pyrocat for my own tray developing in flat-bottomed trays. Any pointers for ISO and filtration? I was going to start with a medium yellow and ISO 100-ish? I have 100 sheets and it is very inexpensive, and I will do some ring-around tests when I get close to the ISO which is usable.

Thanks for both of your posts!

Hi Kimberly, I've been working with Green-latitude XRAY (double-sided) for 15 years. Lovely stuff. Took a while to get used to, though. I've made curves mainly with Pyrocat-HD (EI 80), as well reciprocity correction curves. A few years ago I settled on D-23 1+1. EI 100. These negatives just had the right amount of snap in the shadows, compared to Pyrocat-HD. I've also done work with filters, mainly yellows, greens, blues, and even a red #25... But that required an exposure increase of 9x, and resulted in very contrasty negatives... Somewhere in this long thread, I have most of my findings posted, including development methods. I've settled on flat-bottomed trays.

[mpj01]

hello, here's a test of a new batch of fujfilm green Xray film. Crown Graphic, ISO 6 125/sec f4, HC110 B for 2 minutes, minimal post. sunny day, clear blue sky,
I'm not sure what to do different other than a different developer o243286r a filter possibly.

[Tin Can]

Rodinol 1/100 Distilled water 70F 6 1/2 minutes

Fresh Distilled water stop 1 minute

TF5 mixed with Distilled 5 minutes

Wash in slow running sink water

[Kimberly A]

Hi Andrew,

I just ordered all the chems from Artcraft to make up some PyrocatHD. I'll place another order for chems to make D-23. It is frustrating b/c I have about 500lbs of various raw chems in storage in SLC, UT, which I do not have access to currently. I'll take your recommendation on EI and development.

Thanks to everyone with their recent thoughts! I appreciate it a TON!

[Andrew O'Neill]

I had to google SLC, UT ;)

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50505651966_e575b840a9_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jX1EJS)Auto Maki no 2 270 4.8 Tele Arton HRU 4 (https://flic.kr/p/2jX1EJS) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Automatic Makiflex #2 270mm F4.8 Tele-Arton Makiflex Auto Iris 1/30 F11 Fuji 8x10 XRay HRU cut down to 4x5 in Graphmatic back StarD tripod. Development 12 minutes 60F straight Mic-X replenished by inspection of shadow values by deep red safelight. 8x10 Arista #2 RC Omega DII 180 Rodagon f22 35 seconds Omegalite diffusion head Multigrade developer

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50504910778_7a6f0ae5fe_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jWWSpL)Auto Maki no 2 180 2.8 Xenotar HRU 3 (https://flic.kr/p/2jWWSpL) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Automatic Makiflex #2 150mm F2.8 Xenotar wide-open 1/15 Fuji 8x10 XRay HRU cut down to 4x5 in Graphmatic back StarD tripod. Development 12 minutes 60F straight Mic-X replenished by inspection of shadow values by deep red safelight. 8x10 Arista #2 RC Omega DII 180 Rodagon f22 35 seconds Omegalite diffusion head Multigrade developer

[Tin Can]

I had to google SLC, UT ;)

Watch the movie

SLC Punk!

[Kimberly A]

Watch the movie

SLC Punk!

A classic!

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53289293012_276c502986_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2pbZyf1)Makiflex 150 Xenar HRU D23 Octobox 150 (https://flic.kr/p/2pbZyf1) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Plaubel Makiflex 150mm Schneider barrel Xenar 4x5 Fuji HRU XRAY D23 1:1 8x10 Aristo #2 RC Omega DII laser aligned. Dektol 1:2 Broncolor Octobox 150 1600J with frosted bulb and Octobox Supplemental Diffusion. Backround by David Maheu "Tim Kelly Classic".

[Kimberly A]

That is very lovely. Thank you for sharing. What are you rating the HRU at?

[Eugen Mezei]

Is this the scan of the negative or of the print?

[Daniel Unkefer]

It's a scan of the print.

[Daniel Unkefer]

That is very lovely. Thank you for sharing. What are you rating the HRU at?

Sorry, thought I answered you. Oops. In the studio Broncolor strobes with clear tubes, I set my Strobe Meters to EI 50, and test away. That rating includes a filter factor for the medium yellow filters I use with this film. Then I bracket copiously (the film is cheapo!) and shoot dupes. Damage from scratching added to dust from using olde equipment, leads me to shoot dupes if I like what I am seeing.

Outdoors color temps DO affect film speed. Twelve Noon versus Setting Orange Sun, will/or can radically affect results. Best to shoot lots and give yourself a choice in the darkroom. My 8x10 sheets were 35 cents each so shoot a lot!

[stiganas]

In 2021 I bought a box (500 sheets) of Fuji mammography (the sigle side one) X-ray film because I was sure it is the last time I could bought it. Now I wanted (again just to have it for the rest of my life) to buy normal, cheap green X-ray film (13x18 and 18x24) and to my surprise it is gone (almost). The distributor of Carestream in Romania doesn't have any film from 2022 and other distributors have some left overs (various brands). This means that the days of cheap x-ray film are almost gone, in US is still available but probably it is old stock - better to have some freezer stock.

[Tin Can]

Iowa requires all used medical X-Ray be retained for 7 years by law

https://www.google.com/search?q=iowa+xray+fil%3Bm&rlz=1C1RXMK_enUS1059US1067&oq=iowa+xray+fil%3Bm&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKsCMgkIBRAhGAoYqwIyCQgGECEYChirAjIMCAcQIRgKGBYYHRgeMgwICBAhGAoYFhgdGB4yDAgJECEYChgWGB0YHtIBCTM3MjQ3ajBqN6gCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#ip=1

I only bought fresh from Iowa ZZ Medical

I bought a case 14X36" no fold for a project

ZZ only sells fresh

It stores well at 72F for many years as tested by me

Make sure you buy analog film and NOT DIGITAL!

https://www.zzmedical.com/x-ray-practices/14x36-in-full-length-fuji-x-ray-film-green-hr-u.html

[Kiwi7475]

In 2021 I bought a box (500 sheets) of Fuji mammography (the sigle side one) X-ray film because I was sure it is the last time I could bought it. Now I wanted (again just to have it for the rest of my life) to buy normal, cheap green X-ray film (13x18 and 18x24) and to my surprise it is gone (almost). The distributor of Carestream in Romania doesn't have any film from 2022 and other distributors have some left overs (various brands). This means that the days of cheap x-ray film are almost gone, in US is still available but probably it is old stock - better to have some freezer stock.

To my knowledge single sided is long gone in the US as well, what remains is HRU and others, which are all dual sided. It is however fresh and not old stock. Fuji is weird — they produce for some markets but not others….

[stiganas]

I was surprised by the sudden cancelation from our small market (Romania) - last time I asked the distributor about it - she told me no worry - we have everything in stock, we will have it for a long time and now - we don't distribuite it anymore. Beside this, my sizes (13x18 and 18x24, we don't have 8x10") are not the most used ones in X-ray - one more reason to make a make a stock for the future. It was a long run for the analogic x-ray film - I was expecting to be replaced by digital a long time ago (and I was expecting digital to be truly digital and not printed on "dry flim" but this is another thing) - it had a long run but in medical laboratory there is no nostalgia or art - when is gone is gone.


To my knowledge single sided is long gone in the US as well, what remains is HRU and others, which are all dual sided. It is however fresh and not old stock. Fuji is weird — they produce for some markets but not others….

[Eugen Mezei]

In 2021 I bought a box (500 sheets) of Fuji mammography (the sigle side one) X-ray film because I was sure it is the last time I could bought it. Now I wanted (again just to have it for the rest of my life) to buy normal, cheap green X-ray film (13x18 and 18x24) and to my surprise it is gone (almost). The distributor of Carestream in Romania doesn't have any film from 2022 and other distributors have some left overs (various brands). This means that the days of cheap x-ray film are almost gone, in US is still available but probably it is old stock - better to have some freezer stock.

Cat te-o costat atunci cutia de 500 si ce dimensiune?

[stiganas]

It was around 50 EUR/ 100 sheets pack when I bought it (Fuji mamo), now the list price is around 80 EUR (Colenta). The regular green is around 12 EUR for 13x18 and 25 EUR for 18x24 /100 pack but now I have so much that for sure I will sell (or give it away) most of it in the coming years.

Cat te-o costat atunci cutia de 500 si ce dimensiune?

[glerin]

I would like to purchase an x-ray film that I want to cut into a Kodak Panorama no.4, but also use in 18x24 camera. As a cheaper alternative to Fomapan 100.

I'm from the Czech Republic, I see the following ortho films (I don't want a blue-sensitive film) in stock here and around (I don't want a blue-sensitive film):
Fuji UM-MA HC
Agfa CP-G
Agfa HDR-C

Is there a major difference?
And last question...with Fomapan 100, I sometimes shoot at 400 with cameras that do not allow a longer exposure, and the film can handle it well. Is something like this possible with x-ray film?

Thanks.

[James R. Kyle]

I would like to purchase an x-ray film that I want to cut into a Kodak Panorama no.4, but also use in 18x24 camera. As a cheaper alternative to Fomapan 100.

I'm from the Czech Republic, I see the following ortho films (I don't want a blue-sensitive film) in stock here and around (I don't want a blue-sensitive film):
Fuji UM-MA HC
Agfa CP-G
Agfa HDR-C

Is there a major difference?
And last question...with Fomapan 100, I sometimes shoot at 400 with cameras that do not allow a longer exposure, and the film can handle it well. Is something like this possible with x-ray film?

Thanks.

===================

I have written a PDF of my experiments with X-ray films.
However - I seemingly can NOT up-load it on this "web-site"....

It tells of the selection, Cutting, exposures, and Development processes.

James.....

[glerin]

===================

I have written a PDF of my experiments with X-ray films.
However - I seemingly can NOT up-load it on this "web-site"....

It tells of the selection, Cutting, exposures, and Development processes.

James.....

Thanks, I appreciate it, I sent an email.

[James R. Kyle]

Please try again---
I did not receive it....

James..

[stiganas]

I've done some new test on development, 18x24 X-ray film.

Pyro-501 home made and Cibachrome drum. Dilution 1:500, using 0.2ml/100ml water or even 0.1ml/50ml water (insulin syringe) with continuous rotation for 30minutes, 25C, a simpler variation of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHBra5tx3wE

Pleased with the density and contrast of the negatives - good scanning and good contact prints.

I use mamo film and the antihalo dye cleans nicely and used also double sided X-ray MXG (2017 expired) - no scratches (not 100% sure of even development)

18x24

245191

the full size
https://www.flickr.com/photos/114856861@N02/53438111309

Also a lot of 18x24 cut in three 6cm wide stripe in various 120mm folders, same development. I got two images of 6x9 or three 6x6 or four 6x4.5

I tried 2 sheets overlapped and got bad results, some undeveloped areas.

[Tin Can]

I need to try exposing 3.5 X 14" X'Ray Pano

I have Film Hangers that size

I may tape strips in 11X14 holders

I always want an odd experience

[Eugen Mezei]

What about X-ray film used in the producing industry for nondestructive checks? (I guess for weldings, defects in materials, etc.) From time to time they appear on sale.

[landstrykere]

What about X-ray film used in the producing industry for nondestructive checks? (I guess for weldings, defects in materials, etc.) From time to time they appear on sale.

Agfa Structurix is the one I know. It is easy to find at specialized resellers for industry.
The point is that in European Union hyper regulations don't allow sale of products deemed for companies (industries) and professional sectors (medical for instance) to private persons, so the visibility of such dedicated resellers is limited to the professionals inside the given sector.
Implementation of EU regulations varies by country, and sometimes a branch reseller/shop doesn't care and sells to private persons small amount of an item. Here in Norway, which follows strictly EU norms it's impossible because you must provide a company VAT number, majority of shops in France too (local SIRET number or EU VAT number) and Germany is (in)famous for sticking to whatever regulation.
Sometimes it has to do with the level of tax control on business, with requirements for strictly conform accounting data, partly related treasury, partly related traceability of whatever transaction.
The other day I contacted a business in Germany selling a range of medical x-ray films. When the contact knew I was not a business she didn't even reply back.

by now some british seller offers Structurix on Ebay, but because it is outside EU, there is the tax wall, making it more expensive.

if in your country you don't find a reseller who can be and is relaxed with the company/private regulations, then the nearest area, included very lax attitude with postal tax declaration (quite some will declare as gift, so dodge import tax), is Ukraine, for instance for medical film https://medshop.com.ua/rentgenologiya-tomografiya/rentgen-plenka/ Otherwise Russia but need to have a russian card. Then China, but from experience it's hard to find a reseller accepting to sell small amounts.

I have still a stock of x-ray blue, green, mammographic. My preferred LF size is 13x18/5x7 and I shoot sometimes a lot, so x-ray is very convenient. It's invaluable when testing repro lenses and old brass lenses, etc. So I'd like to buy more of it but yesterday instead I bought a roll of aerial film, 76m in 24cm. This too from a 2-hand source, some seller in India. It's silly: I bought from India 2-hand an item manufactured in Belgium, but that I have no possibility to buy directly as an european.

[landstrykere]

today I contacted again Astrum/Svema about their current stocks and prices.
Before I bought from them bulk Svema 100 in 61,5mm and 13x18 sheets.
I didn't pay attention to everything on their product list. But then I have noticed their x-ray films:

https://i.imgur.com/IHB0Yt4.jpg

rentgenplivka texnichna is labelled RT-4 and RT-5. These remind namings of FOMA industrial xray films under name INDUX, R4, R5, R7:
https://www.foma.cz/en/catalogue-industrial-x-ray-films-153

so I asked the SVEMA/ASTRUM guy and he answered they do sell FOMA xray technical film, also cut at desired size. ...

[Tin Can]

I bought a box of 5X7 Industrial X-Ray

It has way too much packaging

It is meant to to be exposed inside a heavy paper envelope

X-Ray!

Outside also had Lead cover

[Eugen Mezei]

I bought a box of 5X7 Industrial X-Ray

It has way too much packaging

It is meant to to be exposed inside a heavy paper envelope

X-Ray!

Outside also had Lead cover

So it was you who overbid me on eBay.
I am curious to see your results.

[Eugen Mezei]

Agfa Structurix is the one I know. It is easy to find at specialized resellers for industry.

Fuji has the IX series: https://www.mpmproducts.com/fujifilm---film.html
I bet Kodak also has something similar.

New it seems more expensive than medical xray film. Even second hand it usually sells for more, I am asking why.

[Eugen Mezei]

Are xray casettes somehow usefull for our purposes? Bought the remains of a veterinary. I wanted the xray films and the frames for dip and dunk developing but a bunch of casettes does come with it.
Told the seller I do not need them, as shipping would be cheaper. But if they can be used, I can ask to pack some of them too, up to the limit of the next shipping category.

Years ago I asked if these casettes are usable in our LF cameras and somebody answered yes. I can confirm their are not! (Having never seen these things I back than bought one, following the recommendation.)
So are any other uses for us?

[Eric in Vegas]

Not large format but the process is nearly identical so hope it’s allowed. Shot my first batch of x-ray sheet film through my Graflex Crown Graphic 23. I’ve started contact printing and adding adhesive postcard backing so I can share with friends and family.
Fujifilm Super HR-U @ 80
Pyrocat HD in Paterson tank with moderate agitation @ 6’245960245961

[Tin Can]

Do not use

Waste of money


Buy only medical




Fuji has the IX series: https://www.mpmproducts.com/fujifilm---film.html
I bet Kodak also has something similar.

New it seems more expensive than medical xray film. Even second hand it usually sells for more, I am asking why.

[Eugen Mezei]

Do not use

Waste of money


Buy only medical

That is a too harsh recommandation in my opinion. Especially the roll format seems interesting and not avaible as such for medical applications. I for sure would like to buy (if cheap) a 600 m roll at the width of 70, 900 or 100 mm. Or whatever they also offer.

[Tin Can]

I can cut any size up to 48”
And as small as Hassy single shot film holder


That is a too harsh recommandation in my opinion. Especially the roll format seems interesting and not avaible as such for medical applications. I for sure would like to buy (if cheap) a 600 m roll at the width of 70, 900 or 100 mm. Or whatever they also offer.

[Daniel Unkefer]

I've been shooting HRU handheld at 1/50 sec bright sun with Plaubel Makina II 6.5x9cm. It's fun to do. Developed long time in replenished Legacy Microdol-X. Longest developing time being 30 minutes it's a slow process which I like. I use the Jason Lane Double Safe safelight never any fog during inspection. About four feet away. I attach XRAY clips so the film dosen't slosh around in the Cesco tray, no scratches I've done it. I have fifty Makina Planfilm Holders, and some others that fit as well. Fun ahead.

[Eugen Mezei]

Look what I just bought:
246137
246136
Silly expensive and they are smart, they made the front from white plexy so I have to buy another in order to have two halves.
Now I have to decide if I use the red light to develop X-ray film or open a brothel. Second option would recover my money.

[Tin Can]

Stay away from The House of the Rising Sun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-43lLKaqBQ


Look what I just bought:
246137
246136
Silly expensive and they are smart, they made the front from white plexy so I have to buy another in order to have two halves.
Now I have to decide if I use the red light to develop X-ray film or open a brothel. Second option would recover my money.

[Tim Meisburger]

Look what I just bought:
246137
246136
Silly expensive and they are smart, they made the front from white plexy so I have to buy another in order to have two halves.
Now I have to decide if I use the red light to develop X-ray film or open a brothel. Second option would recover my money.

Buy all new kit for your darkroom, mount that puppy, then tell you wife "Honey, I fixed up the darkroom to celebrate our love!"

[Eugen Mezei]

Buy all new kit for your darkroom, mount that puppy, then tell you wife "Honey, I fixed up the darkroom to celebrate our love!"

I can buy all the kit and gear. You know why? I have no wife, therefore.