Rodenstock Apo-Sironar-S 210mm f/5.6

[timberline12k]

Do these lenses ever hit the used market and what is the price range?

Does anyone use this lens on a 4X5 and what are your thoughts?

[Brian Vuillemenot]

Sure, you can find them, but you'll pay a premium price for any Apo-sironar-S because of the cult appeal and mystique surrounding these lenses. New I believe these are about $1200, so a used one in decent shape would probably fetch at least $800-$900. Of course, for 4X5, it is highly unlikely you'll see any difference between the "S" and the "N" (do a search for numerous threads debating the supposed merits of the "S" series over the "N"). The best buy is a Caltar-II-N, which is the same as the Apo-sironar-N. I got my 210 Caltar-II-N for $200 on the auction site, and it's at least as sharp as, if not sharper than, my 150 Apo-sironar-S.

[Frank Petronio]

ditto

[Brian Ellis]

I got caught up in the mystique Brian refers to and sold a Nikkor 135mm to buy a Sironar S 135mm. If there was any difference between the two lenses other than the slightly wider angle of coverage of the S I never noticed it. If you're looking for a 210 I'd suggest checking prices of the Schneider APO Symmar. These are excellent lenses that I think are selling for about $400 used now. IIRC I paid about $900 for mine new around 1995.

[Sheldon N]

I once compared a 135mm APO Sironar-S (actually a "select" Sinar Sinaron SE) to a 135mm Caltar II-N and the Caltar was sharper, but perhaps a hair less contrasty.

Only get the APO Sironar-S if you need the coverage.

[timberline12k]

Since I will only use the 210 on a 4X5, what are the closest equivalent lenses?

Rodenstock 210mm f/5.6 Apo-Sironar-N - Used ($700?) New n/a
Calumet Caltar II-N 210mm Lens f/5.6 With Copal 1 Shutter New ($900) or used ($200?)

Are these the correct models?

What are your thoughts on these two lenses?

Where could I find a nearly new Caltar II-N 210mm?

[Frank Petronio]

Just be patient on eBay, there should be 4-5 per week on there, and most will sell for more like $300, give or take $150 either way.

In general, 1980s and earlier lens used shutters with chrome dials for setting the speeds. Somewhere around 15-20 years ago Copal started making the dials black. And Sironars became Sironar-N (and Caltars became Caltar-Ns).

The aperture indicator -- a plastic arrow that slides around the shutter to indicate the speed -- was made in white with the early black-ringed Copals (like a Panda!). A few years later the indicators became black as well.

You might find lenses in German Compur or Prontor shutters, which are usually better quality but less popular shutters in the USA (along with their own quirks and caveats. And they are no longer made.) Most people will pay a premium for a German shutter, but even though I think Compurs are great, a Copal is actually the better all around choice for a newer shutter -- they very reliable and relatively inexpensive.

Don't be afraid of older shutters though. Base your buying based on the condition of the lens and shutter, not whether it was made in 1989 or 1999. Indeed, after ten years of regular professional use, any shutter most likely would benefit from or require CLA service.

[Bob Salomon]

Rodenstock 210mm f/5.6 Apo-Sironar-N - Used ($700?) New n/a

The Rodenstock 150 and 210mm Apo Sironar N lenses are current lenses in current production and can be purchased new from any of our dealers. All other Apo Sironar N lenses are out of production.

[timberline12k]

Rodenstock 210mm f/5.6 Apo-Sironar-N - Used ($700?) New n/a



I did not realize this lens is still in production. Looks like they sell around $950 new.

[Ron Marshall]

For used lenses check KEH. They are the largest dealer of used photo equipment in the world. Anything rated EX+ or above (and usually EX also) will be as good as new.

APO Sironar-N $450

http://www.keh.com/OnLineStore/ProductDetail.aspx?groupsku=LF06999037842N&brandcategoryname=Large%20Format&Mode=&item=0&ActivateTOC2=&ID=59&BC=LF&BCC=7&CC=6&CCC=2&BCL=&GBC=&GCC=

Caltar II-N $250

http://www.keh.com/OnLineStore/ProductDetail.aspx?groupsku=LF060000615000&brandcategoryname=Large%20Format&Mode=&item=0&ActivateTOC2=&ID=59&BC=LF&BCC=7&CC=6&CCC=2&BCL=&GBC=&GCC=

[Bob Salomon]

I did not realize this lens is still in production. Looks like they sell around $950 new.

They should be more then that with the lifetime warranty on the lens and 3 year warranty on the shutter.

[timberline12k]

For used lenses check KEH. They are the largest dealer of used photo equipment in the world. Anything rated EX+ or above (and usually EX also) will be as good as new.

APO Sironar-N $450

http://www.keh.com/OnLineStore/ProductDetail.aspx?groupsku=LF06999037842N&brandcategoryname=Large%20Format&Mode=&item=0&ActivateTOC2=&ID=59&BC=LF&BCC=7&CC=6&CCC=2&BCL=&GBC=&GCC=


What does the MC stand for and is this model the same as the current production?

210 F5.6 APO SIRONAR-N MC COPAL BULB, TIME (4X5)(42 MOUNT) WITH CAPS, LARGE FORMAT VIEW LENS

This is B&H, are they the same?
Rodenstock 210mm f/5.6 Apo-Sironar-N Lens with Copal #1

[Ron Marshall]

What does the MC stand for and is this model the same as the current production?

210 F5.6 APO SIRONAR-N MC COPAL BULB, TIME (4X5)(42 MOUNT) WITH CAPS, LARGE FORMAT VIEW LENS

This is B&H, are they the same?
Rodenstock 210mm f/5.6 Apo-Sironar-N Lens with Copal #1

MC is multicoated: multiple layers of antireflective coating on the lens elements. Very worthwhile to have. The alternatives are single-coated and uncoated.

That is the current model. I would look at the Caltar if I were you (It is the same lens, but perhaps an earlier version). It is what I have. Even if it is an older model, as long as it is MC then you won't see any difference in image quality.

[timberline12k]

So is the 210 F5.6 CALTAR II-N COPAL BULB, TIME (4X5)(42 MOUNT), LARGE FORMAT VIEW LENS the current model and does it have a Copal 1 shutter?

F/stop range: 5.6-64
Multi coating: Yes
Filter size: 67mm
Image circle: 301mm
Angle of coverage: 72 degrees
Maximum Format size: 5x7

[Ron Marshall]

So is the 210 F5.6 CALTAR II-N COPAL BULB, TIME (4X5)(42 MOUNT), LARGE FORMAT VIEW LENS the current model and does it have a Copal 1 shutter?



It has a Copal 1 shutter. The APO Sironar-N is the latest model, the Caltar II-N should be the latest model, but even if it is not you won't see any difference.

[Bob Salomon]

David,

If you would like the specifications and performance curves go to our web site: www.hpmarketingcorp.com. Click on Rodenstock, go to the bottom of the page and click the Rodenstock link. From there you can download all the documentation on all current Rodenstock lenses.

[timberline12k]

Thanks for the advice!

I purchased my first LF lenses from KEH. I found a used Sironar 210mm f/5.6 and a used Caltar 90mm f/4.5. They were both EX+ and within my budget. They should satisfy my lens needs for a couple years. Now I just need to decide on a used camera. Unfortunately, I am more confused then when I started my LF research.

By the way, what should I check for when the lenses are delivered?

[Ron Marshall]

Thanks for the advice!

I purchased my first LF lenses from KEH. I found a used Sironar 210mm f/5.6 and a used Caltar 90mm f/4.5. They were both EX+ and within my budget. They should satisfy my lens needs for a couple years. Now I just need to decide on a used camera. Unfortunately, I am more confused then when I started my LF research.

By the way, what should I check for when the lenses are delivered?

Congratulations! Those are both good choices.

Look closely at the front and rear elements to see that they are clear and free of fine scratches and fungus.

Check the metal parts for small dents. Test fire the shutter at a few different speeds to see that it sounds close.

You can also shoot a test sheet with each lens if you want.

All of the above is standard, but I have purchased many lenses from KEH, and with EX+ it is highly unlikely you would ever have a problem.

[timberline12k]

Congratulations! Those are both good choices.

Look closely at the front and rear elements to see that they are clear and free of fine scratches and fungus.

Check the metal parts for small dents. Test fire the shutter at a few different speeds to see that it sounds close.

You can also shoot a test sheet with each lens if you want.

All of the above is standard, but I have purchased many lenses from KEH, and with EX+ it is highly unlikely you would ever have a problem.

I will check those out but won't be able to shoot a test sheet until I buy a camera.

[mrpengun]

For used lenses check KEH. They are the largest dealer of used photo equipment in the world. Anything rated EX+ or above (and usually EX also) will be as good as new.

APO Sironar-N $450

http://www.keh.com/OnLineStore/ProductDetail.aspx?groupsku=LF06999037842N&brandcategoryname=Large%20Format&Mode=&item=0&ActivateTOC2=&ID=59&BC=LF&BCC=7&CC=6&CCC=2&BCL=&GBC=&GCC=

Caltar II-N $250

http://www.keh.com/OnLineStore/ProductDetail.aspx?groupsku=LF060000615000&brandcategoryname=Large%20Format&Mode=&item=0&ActivateTOC2=&ID=59&BC=LF&BCC=7&CC=6&CCC=2&BCL=&GBC=&GCC=


Okay, so I thought I understood, but am now confused.
The 210mm Rodenstock APO-Sironar-N and the 210mm Caltar II-N as well as the 210mm Sinar Sinaron-S are all Identical lenses. (mentioned here and many other forums as well, and they all have the 72 degree coverage angle) So why is there such a big discrepancy in price?
is it all just marketing? I want to relate this to when GM tried to re-badge the Subaru Impreza as a Saab (slightly different shape to the front end and bigger brakes, different wheels). It was about $5K more than the Subaru, and so nobody bought them, since they were identical cars--why haven't these lenses had similar issues?

(link to the sinar sinaron on KEH, also $250: Sinaron-S (http://www.keh.com/OnLineStore/ProductDetail.aspx?groupsku=LF069990116400&brandcategoryname=Large%20Format&Mode=searchproducts&item=0&ActivateTOC2=false&ID=&BC=&BCC=&CC=&CCC=&BCL=&GBC=&GCC=&KW=sinaron%20210)