Linhof to Deardorf adaptor board, eBay ordeal

[Cristiano Abreu]

Hi,
I though I would share the truly unpleasant experience I had recently purchasing a Linhof to Deardorff adaptor board on eBay. There's always the risk for not 100% satisfaction and I'm aware of it, but at least I expect some professionalism and politeness from the seller, in case my feedback doesn't meet the seller's expectations.
I present after all the storyline for an item bought the 18th March, payed a couple minutes after purchase and received on the 14th of April; Not to mention the 2 weeks it took the seller just for going to the post office and ship it:

My feedback (NEUTRAL) leaved on eBay:
~1 month to arrive, had to sandpaper to fit, poorly finished, unaccur. squaring

Seller's response to my feedback
why didn't you ask for a full refund? because you know the item is super cheap?


My message to the seller, afterwards:

Regarding your answer to my NEUTRAL feedback:
"why didn't you ask for a full refund? because you know the item is super cheap?"
Not even close! Only because I live on the other side of the Atlantic and you don't refund shipping... am I mistaken!? Most importantly, I waited approx. 1 month to get this board in order to use a Dorff for a project. Thus, I couldn't afford the luxury to wait for a couple weeks more for you to refund me partially and more time to get another board. The board works, sure, but is poorly done and I know what I'm talking about, since my father is a retired carpenter. Maybe in the USA it's OK to think "cheap" will automat. imply a poor product, but not here. People expect a certain level of quality for a NEW article, with at least min. requirements. For ex. the board is not even squared precisely (2-3mm larger on 1 side, visible even by the naked eye). I was not expecting Dorff quality for this price for sure, but at least care on your part and good QC. Regards


To what the seller answers:

You had your opportunity to say what you think when you left me feedback, I had mine. If you don't like it then it's your problem, deal with it!, take it like a man! didn't daddy teach you how to take criticism?

Of course the board works and it is a mega deal, that's the only reason you didn't return it, I can do much better work than your father but not for 25.00 of course, it is just going to cost you more, come on over so I can give you and your father a class.

This is my last email to you. I had the last word. I will not read anymore emails from you. They are a waste of time.

Greetings from the number 1 country in the world.

And don't give me this bullshit about what is and isn't quality in the US from your piece of shit country."
----------------------------------------

What can I say... sad and rude.
I strive to give an honest feedback to let now that things should be improved and inform other potential buyers, as I think it is the moral duty of any concerned buyer.
And I don't think 25 USD is a MEGA DEAL for a poorly finished, rough board, not even squared accurately. Not to mention I had to loose a couple of minutes grinding two corners with sandpaper just to fit the adaptor board on the Dorff... or maybe is it my Dorff that's poorly engineered... Lame.

Regards and sorry for taking your time,
Cristiano

[Ron Marshall]

Fortunately the seller is not a representative American; unfortunately for you he is a representative A-hole.

[Tim Povlick]

Hi Cristiano,

Sorry to hear this happened to you, really no excuse for not doing something right (at least square!).

Is the adapter you are describing 95mm x 100mm and looks like a Linholf lens board but has an opening that accepts an 80mm x 80mm Deardoff lens board?

Tim

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

Unfortunately you are not the first person to complain about that seller. There were some quality problems reported with that guy before, with the same sort of abuse. If only those ebay ratings meant something.

[sultanofcognac]

"Greetings from the number 1 country in the world.
And don't give me this bullshit about what is and isn't quality in the US from your piece of shit country."

Hence the reason there are so many life-long expats! That's truly a shameful experience. After almost ten years of dealing with evilbay I've only had one bad experience, but evilbay interceded and made the seller remedy the situation. The seller refused to refund about 1/3 of the money and none of the shipping costs so his paypal account had to be watched for a year and on his next sale paypal took the money and shuttled it over to my account.

$25 is an expensive lesson, but so is $2.50. . . the world is, unfortunately, full of people with no conscience.

johnny

[Cristiano Abreu]

Fortunately the seller is not a representative American; unfortunately for you he is a representative A-hole.

Don't worry Ron, I fully understand that it has nothing to do with the representative US citizen... just a sad case of "sick patriotism", for the lack of better words, from a matter that should have been kept inside the sphere of buyer/seller lexicon. Americans advanced and popularized LF and photography in general, making it a form of art and what landscape photography is today, and I give you credit for that.

[Cristiano Abreu]

Is the adapter you are describing 95mm x 100mm and looks like a Linholf lens board but has an opening that accepts an 80mm x 80mm Deardoff lens board?

Tim

Hi Tim,
It's a wooden board with round corners and external dimensions 152mm x 152mm, with a cavity of 97mm x 100mm for the Linhof lensboard and a hole of approx. 84mm diameter for the lens. It has also yellow gold hardware.

Cristiano

[Cristiano Abreu]

Unfortunately you are not the first person to complain about that seller. There were some quality problems reported with that guy before, with the same sort of abuse. If only those ebay ratings meant something.

Hi Jason,
you are right. If I'm not mistaken, at the time there was one buyer complaining about the overall quality of a different board. I gave the seller the benefit of doubt, but never expected such offensive treatment to a honest feedback.
I'm still equating if I should fill a complaint on eBay for offensive behaviour. I'm only keeping the board because I really need it to shoot. Someday, I'm going to have a carpenter shop built a new one from scratch. Only if my father was still active... having access to right tools and materials.
It makes me sad to see such poorly finished board, with the Linhof board retaining plate skewed a couple of millimeters (it's so obvious, that even my wife, which normally stays aside for everything photography related, saw it readily and became disgusted), on such a beautiful, yet used, classic camera like the Dorff V8 :(

[Cristiano Abreu]

$25 is an expensive lesson, but so is $2.50. . . the world is, unfortunately, full of people with no conscience.

johnny

So true.

[Renato Tonelli]

Two of the things I cannot stand when dealing with people are arrogance and rudeness.

Thanks for the warning - it couldn't have come at a better time as I was contemplating purchasing the same adapter.

[BarryS]

You're talking about a seller currently named "mcmch" on eBay. He changes his name from time to time, but you can always identify his products. His email used to be jorgeamoreno2003@comcast.net although I don't know if it's still the same or even if his real name is Jorge Amoreno. I had a terrible experience with him not delivering anything or providing proof of shipment for an order after I paid him. I consider him a fraud, a liar, and an all around a**hole. He repeatedly lied to me and threatened me after some very reasonable messages I sent. I know some people have received their products, but others are cheated and abused by this sleazeball. Caveat Emptor.

[Paul Bujak]

I also bought an adapter board from this "gentleman". It was a Toyo to Deardorff for my Calumet C-1. It, too, didn't fit. It was mostly square but too big. So I sanded off part of one side and used it. Didn't bother to complain as it took only a couple of minutes to fix. The Toyo boards fit a little loosely but some felt strips solved that problem.

Then a week or so later, another adaptor board arrived in the mail. It didn't fit any better but I kept it anyway. Maybe he felt guilty or something. Another couple of weeks went by and a third board arrived. Still didn't fit! I figured it wasn't guilt after all but just lack of brain cells. The guy can't measure correctly and forgets to whom he sends his products.

I tried to cut one down to fit my Agfa Ansco 5x7 but it didn't work. The screws got in the way. So I have a spare in case I lose the first board.

Sorry about your message exchange. We Yanks aren't all like that. :o

Paul

[BrianShaw]

... just a sad case of "sick patriotism", for the lack of better words, from a matter that should have been kept inside the sphere of buyer/seller lexicon.

Didn't the patriotism/bashing start with this sentence. "Maybe in the USA it's OK to think "cheap" will automat. imply a poor product, but not here. "? Who said that??

[Cristiano Abreu]

Thanks for the warning - it couldn't have come at a better time as I was contemplating purchasing the same adapter.
You're welcome Renato.


You're talking about a seller currently named "mcmch" on eBay. He changes his name from time to time...
That's correct Barry.


...I figured it wasn't guilt after all but just lack of brain cells. The guy can't measure correctly and forgets to whom he sends his products.
Paul
Awkward indeed.

[Brian Ellis]

I bought a Deardorff lens board from S.K. Grimes some years ago that didn't quite fit. When I called they acted surprised that I was concerned, they said "just sand it a little." And I think of S.K. Grimes as the Rolls Royce of photography machinists, everything else I ever had them do was perfection (at a price). I mention this not to criticize S.K. Grimes but just to point out that even the best can make mistakes. Which doesn't, of course, excuse the rudeness you encountered (and which I certainly didn't encounter at S.K. Grimes).

[Cristiano Abreu]

I bought a Deardorff lens board from S.K. Grimes some years ago that didn't quite fit. When I called they acted surprised that I was concerned, they said "just sand it a little." And I think of S.K. Grimes as the Rolls Royce of photography machinists, everything else I ever had them do was perfection (at a price). I mention this not to criticize S.K. Grimes but just to point out that even the best can make mistakes. Which doesn't, of course, excuse the rudeness you encountered (and which I certainly didn't encounter at S.K. Grimes).

Of course Brian, everybody can make mistakes. After spending the major part of my youth summer holidays helping my father with his carpenter jobs, one thing I know for sure: working wood is not the bit like machining metal or plastic. It's an organic material with a different feel and character, as well as dimensional tolerances. But I think adequate squaring (at least to the naked eye acuity) and polishing the surface to give a smooth finish is the least bit someone who calls himself a carpenter should strive for. I was not bothered to have to sandpaper the board corners. The real issue was the poor overall quality of it. The price imposes constraints of course on the final quality of the product, but IMO it would have been more professional and honest on his part to ask for a slightly higher price and provide something that met minimal quality standards, instead of using the excuse that's what you get for the price. If think it's a totally wrong approach, in terms of business. So called 3rd world countries are doing a lot better job in that department.
Regards,
Cristiano

[Cristiano Abreu]

Didn't the patriotism/bashing start with this sentence. "Maybe in the USA it's OK to think "cheap" will automat. imply a poor product, but not here. "? Who said that??

Hi Brian,
English is not my native speak and maybe my words could have been chosen better. But, I think there's a long way between "MAYBE in the USA it's OK TO THINK ..." and calling your country a piece of s**t... Moreover, what I wanted to express by using such words had always been from the start related to a possible (note, I say possible) CULTURAL factor, i.e. when there's something someone think is "cheap" (25 USD is by no means cheap for me, for a wooden board not original), people who buy those stuff know from the beginning there's a very serious risk of it being defective or having a poor quality control, and they will accept it without a single word... like a law or something.
I always assumed that when I buy a LF product, custom made or not, something that in itself can be called a specialized article, used by seldom people, even in the photographic world, I would get that quality article done by people who really cares or are passionate by photography or what they do. Maybe I'm too naive.
My intention was never to bash a country that has done so much for LF photography and is a Mecca for landscape photography. My apologies to you or others that could have think that way.

[BrianShaw]

Maybe I'm too naive.

This is a distinct possibility. I'm sorry you didn't get what you wanted; I'm sorry that the guy is rude; I'm sorry he besmurched the good names of Portugal and your father... but it might be best to "suck it up" as we say here in America. (translation: take it on the chops and let it go. alternative translation: move on) You've done your "moral imperative" and informed the world. Now give the guy a chance to redeem himself... if he chooses to amend his ways. Good luck with your LF pursuits.

[Helcio J Tagliolatto]

Cristiano,

I had similar problem with that guy, but I could cancel the PayPal order first, and he (she?) didn't send the boards.
Your post serves all of us, LF users.

Hélcio

[Cristiano Abreu]

... but it might be best to "suck it up" as we say here in America. (translation: take it on the chops and let it go. alternative translation: move on) You've done your "moral imperative" and informed the world. Now give the guy a chance to redeem himself... if he chooses to amend his ways. Good luck with your LF pursuits.

Don't worry, it's all gone. "Águas passadas" (past waters) like we say here. What matters now is that I'm shooting with the Dorff and love it :)
Thanks and good luck to you too.
Regards,
Cristiano

[Nana Sousa Dias]

Don't worry, it's all gone. "Águas passadas" (past waters) like we say here. What matters now is that I'm shooting with the Dorff and love it :)
Thanks and good luck to you too.
Regards,
Cristiano

That seller reminded me Mr. Fawlty, from the Fawlty Towers series, featuring John Cleese as Mr Fawlty!
I hope you have that lensplate already fitted on your Deardorff and, if not, I have a little wood workshop at my place, and if you live nearby (I live at Ericeira) you can bring it and will fix it for you. I made recently a wooden lensplate for my Kodak 2D 8x10 and it is quite good.

1 abraço,

Nanã Sousa Dias