Ortho Litho Film

[jf Schles]

I'm using Arista II ORtho LItho film with Dektol 1:1 and I can not get opague blacks. Does anyone have suggestions, or troubleshooting ideas? Perhaps another more contrasty film?

[Robert Ley]

What are you trying to do? If you want more contrast then I would use either D19, D11 or Kodalith A&B. In the past I have had no problem getting a full black with various B&W paper developers. Your Dektol might be beat or you could try dektol straight, but 1:1 should work just fine.

Once again it all depends on the effect that you are after-give us more information as to your intent.

Regards,
Robert

[jf Schles]

I'm basically trying to get a very contrasty negative to backlight. I want very opague blacks, yet good whites. I don't necessarily need much midtone. I tried Dektol straight, still no luck.

[Drew Wiley]

Never had good luck with Dektol and this film - very muddy. The Arista brand A/B lith developer works quite well with it.

[jf Schles]

ah ha! I have ordered some of that, that is the answer I am hoping for, because i've tried every thing else and have gotten very discouraged.

Would you recommend another type of film, in case this doesn't work?

[jf Schles]

ps. I said was trying to get a contrasty negative, but I meant contrasty positive.

[Gene McCluney]

To get a contrasty negative (black & White) no grey, you have to use a Litho-type developer with Ortho Litho film. You can make your own, or purchase it. Dektol will give you a grey-scale.

[Jim Noel]

Never had good luck with Dektol and this film - very muddy. The Arista brand A/B lith developer works quite well with it.

the lith developer is designed to do exactly what you want.

[Ron Marshall]

ps. I said was trying to get a contrasty negative, but I meant contrasty positive.

Are you trying for a positive image?

If so, have a look at DR5:

http://www.dr5.com/blackandwhiteslide/fp4.html

[Nathan Potter]

Cannot obtain opaque blacks using Dektol with lith type films. You need a lith developer (generally two part developer). Arista 2 part as mentioned by Drew will give you what you want. Ilford ID-13 will do also, if still made. I used it when Kodalith developer went kaput. ID-13 mix is as below:

SOLUTION A
Hydroquinone 25 g.
Potassium metabisulfate 25 g.
Potassium bromide 25 g.
Water @ 60 C. 0.75 liter
Finally water at room temp to make 1.0 liter

SOLUTION B
Sodium Hydroxide 50 g. (careful! no skin contact)
Room temp. water to make 1 liter

Above from Anchell

As with Kodalith developer mix A with B just prior to use. I develop for 3 minutes @ 75C. with Kodalith Ortho. But do a couple of tests for max density.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[jf Schles]

I tried the AB Developer and I can only get a good black if it's overexposed, so the whites get too dark.

I'm about to give up here.

[John Whitley]

jf, look into David Soemarko's LC-1 developer (http://www.eriepatsellis.com/LC1.htm) designed for use with Ortho Litho film (specifically the APS and APHS films). Don't let the "low contrast" part throw you -- I gather that you want a continuous tone positive, not a "all black/all white" ultra-high contrast image as a lith developer may produce. Soemarko's formula and process are designed to allow contrast control for use of these films with a variety of alternative processes. These processes have varying contrast requirements to achieve satisfactory prints.

In your case, you can use the contrast controls to achieve the desired results for producing a backlit positive.

If you haven't already, also try posting over at APUG (http://www.apug.org/); you'll find a lot of folks experienced in working with Ortho Litho film who can provide further advice.

[W K Longcor]

Litho film is a lot trickier than many people will admit. Are you processing by a time/ temperature method ( rather than watching the image in the tray and yanking it when you think it looks good)? Check the dev. package for recommended time, use a thermometer to check temperature. Develop the same time/ temp EVERY TIME. Then make a "step wedge" exposure test. This should get you right where you want to be -- unless you got a bad batch of film with bad coating density. (I worked for three years in the Q.C. lab of a lith film and chemical manufacturer. I've heard ALL of these problems before - and almost always bad results are from non-consistant work habits );)

[jf Schles]

John- Thank you for this, I'm actually looking for a fairly contrasty negative, but I would like some control, which is why I tried the Dektol originally. I will try this formula too.

WK- I appreciate your comments. I have to admit that I wa, not paying too much attention to the temperature, since I'm used to working with paper and that doesn't seem to be too crucial. I will try the recommended temp and dev. times.

thank you both.

[Geno]

I am using litho for masks, but was told this morning by Freestyle photo supplies that this film is no longer available. Arista II ortho is what I have been using. Looking for an alternate source or film. Suggestions?

[Vaughn]

It is still on their website, but with some sizes being low in stock -- perhaps they still have a larger size in stock that you can cut down.

[Rick A]

Good negatives in Dektol are obtainable by using a much weaker dilution than 1+1. Dilute Dektol 1+ 7, 1+8, or 1+9 to start with, and work up times(IIRC) starting around 5 minutes. I havent used ortho-litho film in a while(several years) but had loads of fun making half-tones for posters and such. I have a couple of boxes of Ilford Ortho+ that I am going to break out one of these days, and shot several rolls of Rollei Ortho 25(120) recently, its a bit touchy, but I will be shooting more.

[Eric Woodbury]

I used to use Litho A/B dev with litho film. It as if the film develops twice. First an image appears that is grey scale and then a cancerous black grows across the image. After fixing, what remains is an opaque or clear piece of film. No middle tones. These materials were designed to make dot negatives for printing.

[Nathan Potter]

John- Thank you for this, I'm actually looking for a fairly contrasty negative, but I would like some control, which is why I tried the Dektol originally. I will try this formula too.

WK- I appreciate your comments. I have to admit that I was, not paying too much attention to the temperature, since I'm used to working with paper and that doesn't seem to be too crucial. I will try the recommended temp and dev. times.

thank you both.

OK, I think I see what you are after. You want a black with about zero transmission but still want some mid and highlight tones. That's a pretty tough demand for a photomechanical film, especially using a conventional lith developer.

You will need to do some careful calibration using a density wedge. Expose the film through a density wedge (like Stouffer can supply) with uniform light measured by a meter in EV value.

I think you'll have to pick a continuous tone developer but one that will build density quickly. You may be able to make D19 work - maybe at double working strength. You'll need several expose films to work with so you can vary the development time until you get about an absolute black > log D 4.0 but see some midtones in the areas of higher density from the original wedge. As mentioned above this is tough to do with lith film. Certainly paper developers won't cut it.

Twood be nice if you could make a plot of Density vs EV that you could use as a standard.:)

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[wager123]

hi all
talked to freestyle couple oh hours ago. yep no more arista lith film. mfg is not going to make any more so stock up if you use it. i did notice that the arista film package doesn't have an exp date , how long is most lith film good for?
thanks
mitch

[Shadowtracker]

Thanks for that last tidbit of info about order now - I just did, tried to get 3 boxes, and it would only let me get 1.



Tim

[Bill Burk]

To go with rules of thumb memorialized on another thread.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=70715

Shoot for a solid step 3 on the Stouffer scale.

[That's if you are shooting linework, paste-up]

[Shadowtracker]

By the way - Freestyle contacted me to confirm my order from last night; I wrote back and told them about only being able to place an order for 1 box of film. They said they don't know why that happened, but there is still plenty that can be ordered.

Not sure if it was a computer glitch or something I did.

Tim