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Tom Keenan
9-Apr-2009, 13:00
I have an early model JOBO CPP-2 Processor that I rely on. Like others, I recently switched to using the expert tanks and the motor just can't handle it. I want to upgrade the motor (and whatever else needs upgrading). When I google for potential solutions, I read that the upgraded motor may be a Mercedes-Benz or BMW windshield wiper motor. Is there anyone out there that has upgraded to ver.3 on the CPP-2 that can provide an image of what that motor looks like and maybe any specs or tags on it to help identify a source?? I would be willing to do some running around and post my findings so others might benefit. Or maybe a simpler question would be whether anyone knows where parts might be hiding. I have tried to contact JOBO US but nobody appears to be home. Any other suggestions?
Thanks
Tom Keenan

Oren Grad
9-Apr-2009, 14:21
Service and support for Jobo processors is now handled by Omega-Satter. Jobo USA deals with digital products only now.

Jeff Graves
9-Apr-2009, 17:54
Tom, Unfortunetly you need to update the circuit board as well as the motor. Here is a link to the Jobo page.http://www.jobo.com/jobo_service_analog/us_analog/bulletins/b019.htm
I agree with you on the motor. It looks like a wiper motor to me.

Tom Keenan
9-Apr-2009, 18:25
Thanks. That suggests that JOBO would charge me $700-$800 for the parts to upgrade. Hmm... I have a call in to Omega Satter.
Tom Keenan

Greg Blank
11-Apr-2009, 11:10
If you call on a Friday I am usually not there. What I tell people is that I need the serial number to guess how much it will cost for me to do the upgrade. At one point Jobo was supplying me the pre made circuit boards now that is no longer the case. So I must remove and install new components as needed. Sometimes the cost is more and sometimes its less depending on the age of the machine. The new motor as sold is about $408.00 You can't just slap a new motor into the machine if the serial is below 22,000....or you will burn up other stuff within the circuitry.

Your serial number is found on the silver tag on the back of the machine and starts with "NR"



Thanks. That suggests that JOBO would charge me $700-$800 for the parts to upgrade. Hmm... I have a call in to Omega Satter.
Tom Keenan

Tom Keenan
12-Apr-2009, 05:52
Greg:
Thanks for responding to this thread. My serial #10328. Was there a photo lab on the Mayflower?
Tom Keenan

Greg Blank
12-Apr-2009, 17:58
This machine is going cost you more to upgrade than you could probably find one for newer on Ebay.



Greg:
Thanks for responding to this thread. My serial #10328. Was there a photo lab on the Mayflower?
Tom Keenan

Cymen
12-Apr-2009, 21:40
Greg:
Thanks for responding to this thread. My serial #10328. Was there a photo lab on the Mayflower?
Tom Keenan

Take heart: The CPP-2 I picked up last week is #1177! There is a recent thread at APUG where one poster has mentioned having an even earlier unit that is still working even with use of expert drums.

Cymen
26-Apr-2009, 09:44
If you do find a source, would you please share it? I have the same worry actually and it would be great to not have to be as concerned about it.

Jeremy Moore
26-Apr-2009, 10:39
I have a CPA2 #11338 that I use with a Jobo 3005 Exper Drum without any problems.

Drew Wiley
26-Apr-2009, 15:32
Jobo motors have always been undersized as well as too fast an RPM for real versatility. Serious small gearmotors are readily available, but you'd probably have
to enlist the help of a machine shop for getting it adapted. I'd forget the Jobo folks
on this front, as well as the circuit board. Bypass it and put in a new speed control.
I complained about this a couple of decades ago, and for this very reason never bought a Jobo processor.

Tom Keenan
26-Apr-2009, 19:58
First, I want to thank Greg from Omega Satter for returning my calls and spending time with me on the phone.
Second, Let's be honest with each other here...This is a motor to turn something around. It is underspec'd. The fix should be easy to come up with. There is no invention required. We don't need to design a new ipod, electric car, Mars lander, 21 megapixel anything....it is a technology from last century that needs to be fixed. I'm convinced that someone who understands electric motors can help us come up with the solution.
Third, I like my CPP-2 and I think it is worth spending some time upgrading it. My results with expert drums and E-6 are much better than I thought I could accomplish.
Fourth, I think there a a lot of JOBOs out there that could and should be upgraded so I think coming up with an solution would benefit many.

So, I am going to do some legwork and try and find the electric motor person that can point me in the right direction. Drew says that small gear motors are readily available? Where?
Best,
Tom Keenan

Jeff Graves
27-Apr-2009, 05:48
My first look would be grainger or mcmaster-carr. Grainger has a fairly good tech staff when it comes to motors. Just tell them what the application is for. I'm assuming being a variable speed it needs to be a dc motor with a ac to dc control. This might be something that can be retro-fitted, by-passing the jobo power supply completly. Seems like the hardest part would be adapting it to the existing mounting area.

Paul Ewins
28-Apr-2009, 16:11
I'd be interested in the results too. I have two CPP2s, the first one I got is #1068 while the later one (which has the lift) is #21333. I've also been trying to decide the best way to add a handle to the bottom of the lift for when I'm using a 3005. Just putting my hand under the drum as I lift destabilizes it, so I'd rather something that is attached to the lift rails.

mike kwiatkowski
10-May-2009, 21:09
I could be wrong but I heard at one time the motor in a jobo (in my case a cpp2) was the same as the wiper motor in a vw bus or beetle...... actually I just looked at some notes I have and I think it is a Mercedes windshield wiper motor made by Bosch. At least a place to start.

Bazz8
11-May-2009, 02:19
I can,t do that but this link may solve a lot of grief:
http://www.tech-diy.com/jobo.htm
the moter does not seem so much of a problem but the circuitry.
regards
BarryTreleaven

Donald Miller
11-May-2009, 02:36
I've noticed that WW Grainger has been mentioned. I dealt with that company for most of my business career. While they are an excellent industrial supply firm one must recognize that they do not often encounter DC gear motors. They have a very limited supply of this item. Most are too small to do what you want to do.

An alternative source for DC gear motors and controllers is:
http://www.bisongear.com/subcategory.asp_Q_catID_E_4_A_subCatID_E_47

DC voltage is probably the specified current for the item you wish to replace simply because the rotational speed of a DC motor is directly proportional to the input voltage. AC motors do not have this capability and if voltage is reduced the motor will probably overload and burn the stator windings in short order.

Variable speed DC motors have voltage supply circuits for the purpose of varying input voltage. These are either of an open loop or a closed loop design. Closed loop designs measure the actual motor stator rotational speed. One type of control circuit is a SCR (silicon controlled rectifier) chopper design.

If I were engaged in parts substitution or substitution incorporating altering control circuit design parameters, I would begin with the desired rotational speed of the driven device. Second I would determine the total wattage requirement at the device voltage and subtract out all known other loads...such as heater etc. The remainder would be the motor load and from that you can begin to determine the motor design load characteristics that you will need.

Non of this is rocket science. One can readily come up with SCR control circuit schematics on the internet or the public library. The devices needed to build up the board are readily available.

Auto windshield wiper motors are a good possible alternative. But I damned sure would not buy one from Mercedes. I would go to an auto wrecking yard and buy the wiper motor and wiper speed control from any late model wrecked car. All that you would need in addition is a transformer to step down your household voltage to 12 VDC. Those are readily available.

OldBikerPete
13-May-2009, 18:27
I think that part of the problem with Jobo motors is the abrupt way they change direction. the abrupt change also places strain on other parts of the setup. i have toyed with the idea of using a stepper motor - direct, ungeared - in my cpe/2. these can be controlled using a PIC microcontroller chip and programmed to ramp speed up and down at the change of direction.
One of the many things I will get to when I get a round toit.

Greg Blank
13-May-2009, 18:57
Your correct.

The problem is that most people are not aware that the two way direction was designed for prints and not film. Most people put lots more fluid in the drum for film and the two way direction causes strain on the circuit. The design of the circuit is to ramp the voltage to maintain the drum speed regardless of load.....and then things die when you put too much load that is beyond the design.

It's astounding to me is how many people use Jobos and don't realize you can move the three finger gear out of the cogs path and just do one way direction. At least with Expert drums I see no difference between two way or one way operation on the final film processing results.



I think that part of the problem with Jobo motors is the abrupt way they change direction. the abrupt change also places strain on other parts of the setup. i have toyed with the idea of using a stepper motor - direct, ungeared - in my cpe/2. these can be controlled using a PIC microcontroller chip and programmed to ramp speed up and down at the change of direction.
One of the many things I will get to when I get a round toit.

Paul Ewins
13-May-2009, 19:13
That will be people like me who bought them secondhand and thus never got a manual. They are so easy to use that I never bothered finding a manual. Now that you mentioned it, I had a look and found the three finger gear and saw how it could be moved out of the way. I'll give it a go next time I'm developing some 8x10.

VictoriaPerelet
29-May-2009, 16:36
got around to fix one of ours and remembered this thread. Here you go CPP/ATL:

http://victoriasphoto.com/tmp/IMG_8151.jpg

http://victoriasphoto.com/tmp/IMG_8152.jpg

http://victoriasphoto.com/tmp/IMG_8153.jpg

ic-racer
29-May-2009, 16:54
Thanks. After 3 pages someone does it. ( I'm too lazy to open mine up just for curiosity).

So, I do see a resemblance to a BMW wiper motor.

Tom Keenan
29-May-2009, 19:50
IC:
Is that a BMW wiper motor that is the thumbnail??
Tom Keenan

Tom Keenan
29-May-2009, 19:55
Victoria:
Nice work!! What is the approximate serial nember of your unit?
Tom Keenan

ic-racer
30-May-2009, 04:17
IC:
Is that a BMW wiper motor that is the thumbnail??
Tom Keenan

The picture is a Bosch from an E30 M3 BMW, but there may be others that are even closer.

Jim C.
31-May-2009, 09:23
It's astounding to me is how many people use Jobos and don't realize you can move the three finger gear out of the cogs path and just do one way direction. At least with Expert drums I see no difference between two way or one way operation on the final film processing results.

I own a CPA2 and of all the info I read including the Rotary Processing Manual
none of the literature mentions that you can get one way rotation, this is interesting
information.

I guess all one has to do is rotate the three finger gear as you call it
( looks like a white birds foot to me :) ) so that the fingers don't engage
the little pin that is behind the drive cog ?

Stephen Benskin
1-Jun-2009, 17:47
I had the same problem with me Jobo motor. It went back and forth with the repair facility on the east coast for almost a year. I finally took it to Dave and Norma Smith in California (323) 227-1869. They have years of experience, are certified by Jobo, and are two of the nicest people you will ever meet. After spending way too much time on the motor than he really should have, Dave came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth it. He sold me a completely new head and didn't charge me for the labor on the old. Yes, it was expensive, but it will now last.

Greg Blank
1-Jun-2009, 18:22
Guess at some point I should try and find that information in writing some where/What i can tell you is that the owner of Jobo USA told me when I was in a meeting with him was that the Expert drum is designed to not need Bi direction rotation to get uniform film process results.

Since my own film test confirms it I'll stick with it.




I own a CPA2 and of all the info I read including the Rotary Processing Manual
none of the literature mentions that you can get one way rotation, this is interesting
information.

I guess all one has to do is rotate the three finger gear as you call it
( looks like a white birds foot to me :) ) so that the fingers don't engage
the little pin that is behind the drive cog ?

Greg Blank
1-Jun-2009, 18:34
I would be interested in finding one with the same spindle to attach the gear which I doubt is available. The motor specs voltage needed are important & finding one with the exact torque and RPM's requirement that of the jobo...motor....proprietary info probably not given by Jobo.

I actually have cleaned an existing black covered motor brushes and all, cleaning the brushes with degreaser, and fine grit auto body sandpaper will improve a slow motor provided there is no damage. Took me about four hours. But the motor was ot designed carry the load of the expert drum.....that little brass insert on the straight style spindle looses its grabing ability and then slips also.




The picture is a Bosch from an E30 M3 BMW, but there may be others that are even closer.

Dirk Rösler
23-Sep-2014, 00:44
Could be this one, but need the exact number on the item to know for sure:

http://www.smolka-berlin.de/onlineshop/en/artikel/SWF_VALEO_NIDEC_ITT_402.950_gear_motor_24V_DC_Typ%3A_SWMP/5402

koh303
24-Sep-2014, 04:17
Could be this one, but need the exact number on the item to know for sure:

http://www.smolka-berlin.de/onlineshop/en/artikel/SWF_VALEO_NIDEC_ITT_402.950_gear_motor_24V_DC_Typ%3A_SWMP/5402

This is not the correct motor.

The correct motor is available new or used (for all three production versions, will need to know your machines SN).

Dirk Rösler
24-Sep-2014, 05:49
Hi, yes it looks that for the CPP/CPA machines, it is 403.304 (new version) and 403.278 (old version). These are more recent and JOBO repairers in Germany have them in stock.

You can also find them on the linked site if you search by part number, but the seller is more costly than the "official" Jobo source (i.e. Klaus).