Bergger Warm Tone New vs. old

[Renato Tonelli]

Has anyone compared the old warm tone Bergger VCCB to the new one (made at the Ilford facility) to see how they compare in tone and respond to Selenium?

Awhile back there was a thread asking pretty much the same question but not much came of it.

I really liked the old version but I would like some heads-up before I invest a whole darkroom session testing the new version only to discover that the new paper is a distant relative to the old paper or it turns out to be a clone of the Ilford warm tone.

(I am looking to find a replacement for the Agfa Multicontrast).
I am planning to test the reformulated Oriental Seagull warm tone and Fomatone in a week or so.

[F-Liner]

Try Oriental Warmtone FB. You won't regret it.:D

[Renato Tonelli]

Try Oriental Warmtone FB. You won't regret it.:D

Ordered some yesterday from Freestyle.:)

[Toyon]

Try Oriental Warmtone FB. You won't regret it.:D

Are you referring to the new reformulated Oriental Warmtone fb vc, or the old edge-fog prone version?

[Renato Tonelli]

Finally finished testing (amazing how working for a living tends to get in the way of things!). The new Bergger warm tone paper has a white base. The old one had an off-white, creamy base. It is about 35% faster than the old one; Toning in Se 1:19 shows D-max but no color shift as in the old one. No appreciable changes in the developers (and subsequent Se 1:19 toning) that I tried it in: LPD 1:6, Neutol 1:7, Formulary 130 1:1 and 1:2
I prefer the old emulsion for the negatives I intended to print with it.
The newly formulated Oriental Seagull Warmtone VC FB II is more sensitive to the different developers and toning. As indicated in other posts, the emulsion is quite delicate.

[Jan Pedersen]

The old Bergger VCCB was very much identical to the Forte Polywarmtone maybe with the exception of a thicker stock on the Bergger. The new Bergger does in my opinion look exactly like Ilfords WT paper but again on a thicker stock.

The new Oriental WT paper has a beautiful tone but i am surpriced at how poorly it respond to change in filter grade. Don't know if it is beacuse i develop my negatives in Pyrocat MC, still need to print with a non staining developer to get an answer to that.

Highlights change very little from a grade 3 filter to a grade 0 Shades do change more and becomes muddy like the Kentmere VC papers when printed with a grade 0 or a grade 0.5 filter.
Anyone having the same experience with the Oriental WT? (New)

[Renato Tonelli]

Highlights change very little from a grade 3 filter to a grade 0 Shades do change more and becomes muddy like the Kentmere VC papers when printed with a grade 0 or a grade 0.5 filter.
Anyone having the same experience with the Oriental WT? (New)

I have had the same experience (tested the Kentmere VC warm, some time ago).
The muddiness can be dealt with to some extent by using Selectol-Soft as the first developer.
None of the papers I tested with the 21-step wedge have the range that the Agfa MCC 111 had. I was happy enough with the old Bergger Warm Tone for the color of its paper base. I don't recall who currently offers such a paper.

[Oren Grad]

(I am looking to find a replacement for the Agfa Multicontrast).

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum249/63022-coating-machine-operation-mcc-progressing.html

[Renato Tonelli]

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum249/63022-coating-machine-operation-mcc-progressing.html

I am aware of Adox' efforts and I am looking forward to testing it and hopefully it will live up to its promise:) .

[Dennis]

Jan I am definitely interested in seeing your results with the new Oriental at the next meeting. My findings while testing side by side with the not new Oriental was that the contrast seemed different in some ranges of tone and the same in others. Overall it seemed flatter than the old. Then I tested them with just the condenser head on my enlarger and they both printed perfectly as a grade 2 and they both printed the same contrast though the new is slower. Today I am testing the new with chinese Amidol.

sorry to go off bergger topic. But what the hell! how many papers are being made by harmon now? Are they taking over the entire market.
Dennis

[Jan Pedersen]

Dennis, Will bring some examples.
Will be printing some negatives developed in non staining developer this weekend for comparison.

[Sal Santamaura]

I am aware of Adox' efforts and I am looking forward to testing it and hopefully it will live up to its promise:) .I have printed on the test coating and it does live up to it's promise! :D

[Filmnut]

I signed up to receive a sample of the new Adox paper, and eventually, last year, I received 5 sheets of 8X10, not really enough to do very much testing with. So, based on the very limited amount of printing I did, here are my observations.
I processed in Dektol 1:1, and found that it printed very similar the Agfa MCC, with Adox being about 1/3 stop faster, contrast was nearly identical to Agfa, but with a whiter base. The latter was a bit of a disappointment, as I really love the base on the old Agfa.
I did not tone the prints.
When I can, I would buy some of the Adox paper, and give it a more complete testing.
Keith

[Filmnut]

I should add that although a the base is a bit different than the old Agfa, I liked the tonality of my test prints, and I think that the new Adox is worth a look.
Keith

[Sal Santamaura]

...but with a whiter base. The latter was a bit of a disappointment, as I really love the base on the old Agfa...The yellow base of Agfa MCC 111 was the only aspect of it I didn't like. I was thrilled to see the Adox MCC 111 had a pure white base color.