Importing from the US from Badger Graphic

[Paul Greeves]

Hi. I have just sold a Sinar Norma 10x8 and I am looking to purchase a lighter, more portable replacement from the US. Does anyone have any experience of Badger Graphic and are they a good company to deal with? Also, I live in the UK and wondered I anyone else had imported a camera from the US before and whether it was a trouble free experience and how much duty and tax they were required to pay. Thanks.

[Rick Moore]

Jeff is as good and honest a dealer as you could ever hope to find.

[Ron Marshall]

I have dealt with them many times; they are the best.

[evan clarke]

Ditto, he is top notch..

[Paul Greeves]

Thanks guys. You do have to be careful who you are dealing with. Their prices seem very good, compared to what I would need to pay in the UK. I didn't know whether it was too good to be true.

[Ron Marshall]

If you don't mind my asking, what are you planning to replace the Norma with?


Hi. I have just sold a Sinar Norma 10x8 and I am looking to purchase a lighter, more portable replacement from the US. Does anyone have any experience of Badger Graphic and are they a good company to deal with? Also, I live in the UK and wondered I anyone else had imported a camera from the US before and whether it was a trouble free experience and how much duty and tax they were required to pay. Thanks.

[Paul Greeves]

I was thinking of a Canham JMC810. I did briefly own a wooden Canham, which developed a fault and the retailer wouldn't obtain a replacement for me and has refunded my money.

One of the joins on the Canham had come unstuck and the wood split as a result. I had the camera for just three weeks. Hens, my decision to try the all metal camera.

[Joanna Carter]

I live in the UK and wondered I anyone else had imported a camera from the US before and whether it was a trouble free experience and how much duty and tax they were required to pay.
The usual duty on photographic gear is around 6.5%. Then you will have to pay 15% VAT on the goods plus the shipping. Although there can (sometimes) be an advantage in getting stuff shipped by USPS/Parcel Force rather than the more well known couriers;
if you can guess what I mean ;)

[Paul Greeves]

Thanks Joanna.

I'll have to do my sums. It looks like the camera will come via USPS, so I my escape the duty. Do you know how the duty is paid? Do customs contact me and ask for payment before releasing the goods?

[Joanna Carter]

It looks like the camera will come via USPS, so I my escape the duty.
I didn't say that :cool:


Do you know how the duty is paid? Do customs contact me and ask for payment before releasing the goods?
You will usually be left a notice stating that you need to pay the duty before it can be delivered or picked up; or they may collect it on delivery.

[Paul Greeves]

Thanks again. Sorry, I didn't mean to misquote you!

[Ron Marshall]

I was thinking of a Canham JMC810. I did briefly own a wooden Canham, which developed a fault and the retailer wouldn't obtain a replacement for me and has refunded my money.

One of the joins on the Canham had come unstuck and the wood split as a result. I had the camera for just three weeks. Hens, my decision to try the all metal camera.

I've seen the Canham wooden 5x7, lovely camera. The 8x10 metal should be a fine camera!

[Steve Gledhill]

The usual duty on photographic gear is around 6.5%. Then you will have to pay 15% VAT on the goods plus the shipping. Although there can (sometimes) be an advantage in getting stuff shipped by USPS/Parcel Force rather than the more well known couriers;
if you can guess what I mean ;)

Paul,
In addition there is usually a shippers "customs handling fee". My last one was £8 (for the Folios from Jim Becia) to ParcelForce (who seem to handle USPS stuff over here) payable on top of the duty / VAT. Duty / VAT is payable on the declared contents value. The parcel won't be released to you until you pay all that's owed, even if it's charged in error you have to pay then make your claim to HMRC - Her Maj's Revenue & Customs. I often buy from the US though less of late with the £ being so weak. My "success rate" is about 1 in 4 don't get picked on. I've never had anything go astray ... so far!

[Eric Woodbury]

Paul

if you have a friend in the US, then ship there first and have the friend ship the item as a gift. I believe this will eliminate VAT. Not sure on this, but worth checking out.

[Joanna Carter]

if you have a friend in the US, then ship there first and have the friend ship the item as a gift. I believe this will eliminate VAT. Not sure on this, but worth checking out.
This is commonly known as fraud and is a well known ploy to our Customs and Excise authorities. The penalties are not worth the risk.

[Ole Tjugen]

Since just about everything I buy is imported from somewhere, I now factor in the customs fee, the 25% (!) VAT equivalent and all the other accumulating fees on anything I buy.

For simplicity's sake, look for something inland.

Have you ever tried a Gandolfi? I went from all-metal Linhofs to all-wood Gandolfi Traditional, and don't regret it for a moment (except that the Technika 13x18 had 5cm more extension than the Gandolfi 7x5", so I'll have to remember to bring the 10x8" with reduction back if I think there might be a need for the 420mm converted length of the 240mm Symmar - until now I've taken ONE photo with that converted lens) - those cameras are both lightweight and rock solid.

I have Gandolfi cameras made in 1920, the 1950's, 1980 and 1978 - the later ones are superior to just about anything.

[Paul Greeves]

All good advice. Thank you. I don't suppose it is worth waiting until the exchange rate improves!

[Paul Greeves]

If 25% is a figure that I need to factor into purchasing from the US, then I may need to rethink.

I have made contact with Mike Walker of Walker Cameras who has a new 10x8 model in production. My only concern was that it has a fixed back and that may made it difficult to correct verticals when the camera is angled up or down.

[Ole Tjugen]

25% is the Norwegian VAT equivalent, not the British one. So my factor is a lfat fee plus 25% on everything including the flat fee - but even with your lower VAT, I think 25% on the total is going to be on the low side.

My "cheap" Gandolfi ended up being expensive enough that I would think twice before selling it if it didn't live up to expectations, simply because I couldn't hope to recoup my costs. Same with the rest of my stuff really, except for the very few things that were cheap enough to sneak under the £20 limit on taxability...

But unlike me, you live in a populous country with a long tradition of camera manufacturing. So unless you absolutely and definitely need to get something new, I would urge you to check out the local market: With the current recession, there should be a lot of very good gear at a very affordable price on the market.

[Joanna Carter]

If 25% is a figure that I need to factor into purchasing from the US, then I may need to rethink.
Taking UK VAT instead of Ole's local rate, it works out at about 20% here. It sounds a lot but, especially when the pound/dollar rate was better, it was still quite a bargain.


I have made contact with Mike Walker of Walker Cameras who has a new 10x8 model in production. My only concern was that it has a fixed back and that may made it difficult to correct verticals when the camera is angled up or down.
Mike is a great guy. He came along to a workshop we organised recently and brought one or two cameras he made. Yes, they have their limitations but, there are not many cameras you can put into boiling water and have them come out undamaged :eek:

[Tim Meisburger]

Hi Paul. I live in Bangkok, and let me tell you, shipping costs and taxes from the US can eat you alive. I buy my film from China because shipping from the US doubles its cost, can't imagine what a camera would cost to ship, but guess it would be over $100 with insurance, etc., plus tax at 20% and it adds up fast. Plus, with the pound so weak against the dollar now, you will take a beating.

Luckily, I get back to the US every year or two and usually just make a list and go on a shopping spree. For you, I think you are better off buying from a local dealer (that's what the EU is for, right). Even if its an American product, it should be cheaper locally, as may have been shipped more cheaply, and bought when the exchange rate was more advantageous.

Cheers, Tim

[catshaver]

Paul, send an email to Jeff at Badger Graphic. He'll help you figure out import duty etc.
I deal with him on a regular basis, and for good reason.

info@badgergraphic.com

[Drew Wiley]

Badger has been excellent.

[Chris Strobel]

Well as long as you know what you want I'd say Badger is great.My only complaint was when I was shopping for a Ries tripod for my Calumet black beast (C-1) they recommended I get the heavier A100-II.I really had not done my home work and just took their advice without question.I should have got the A100, the II is overkill.Since then I've ordered quite a few things from them and always get it fast and at a decent price.Jeff is the only one I've dealt with there.

C

[Rick Floyd]

I have made several high dollar purchases from Badger Graphics. Everything from my Ebony to several lenses and film and I've never had a problem. Jeff gives the best customer service in the nation when it comes to taking care of his large format customers.

RF

[Ross Chambers]

Excellent service from Badger to Australia. From memory they emphasise that they will not partake in any type of less than honest pro forma invoicing. If USPS+ Australia Post are able to detect and pursue GST (=VAT) liabilities I would imagine that the British mob will, too. As Australia and the USA have a free trade agreement one does escape import duties (even when the Shen Hao is made in China).

My major concern was that the ministry responsible for agriculture might insist on fumigating a wooden camera! I wonder whether anyone has encountered this problem?

Regards - Ross

[Tony Lakin]

Hi
I live on the Isle Of Man, I purchased my JMC8X10 from Robert White:)

[Paul Greeves]

It would appear that there are pros and cons in importing the camera. Badger Graphic do seem to have a very good reputation.

The Canham would still be cheaper to order from Badger than the more local Robert White, even with the duty.

The Canham that was faulty was supplied by Robert White. I did give them the option to replace the Traditional with the JMC810 but they opted for a refund instead.

I hope to talk to Mike Walker this weekend about Titan 10x8.

[George Hart]

Here's another shout for Badger—I have bought a camera and 2 lenses, separately, over the past 5 years without any problem. Expect to pay between 20 and 25% tax etc. on top, though.

My experience with USPS is less good than with other carriers. ~2 years ago I bought a lens from a private individual in the US, and it took more than 4 weeks to arrive…

[Paul Greeves]

Hi Tony,

Out of interest, what is your opinion of the JMC810? Is it as difficult to fold away as the wooden equivalent? Is the back rigid enough to remain still in a moderate wind? Your knowledge of the camera would be appreciated.

[Tony Lakin]

Hi Tony,

Out of interest, what is your opinion of the JMC810? Is it as difficult to fold away as the wooden equivalent? Is the back rigid enough to remain still in a moderate wind? Your knowledge of the camera would be appreciated.

Hi Paul
I find the JMC 10x8 behaves very well in a moderate winds obviously there are other factors to take into account like tripod stability and bellows extension, if I am using my 600mm lens I usually shield the camera with anything available ie brolly, sheet of anything rigid, lastolite reflector or my body.
The camera takes a little getting used to, after using mine for about 18 months I traded my Linhof in for the DLC45 and have been very happy with that too.
Rgarding import duties I guess we are really lucky here in the IOM as I have purchased quite a few items from the US and Asia and have never been charged any import duty.
I hope this helps:)
Regards
Tony

[Anthony Lewis]

I've bought a camera and several lenses Fuji from Badger Graphics, a lens from MidWest photo, film and other items from BH Photo and Freestyle, a lens from Tin Cheung (HK), and several Schneider lenses from Robert White(UK). Only last week my 135mm Rodenstock Sironar S arrived from Badger graphics.

All these places are very reputable and provide excellent service. I now have no troubles buying from overseas. In fact in many ways it is easier. I do not have to get in my car and go anywhere, then wait for the item to be ordered, and a second trip to pick it up. They are now delivered quicker to my doorstep.

Freight is a little expensive, and the only time I loss out is if an item has to be returned. I have to pay the freight costs back to the retailer. This has only happened twice, once with Badger, who provided excellent service and the item was fixed with no hassles and very quickly.

[Stephen Lewis]

Hi Paul

Just thought I'd chuck in my two penny worth. I've bought a few items for both Badger and Midwest Photo, and I've had excellent service from both. No problems with the deliveries either. When buying from the States I add 25% to the sterling value; this is enough to cover the duties, VAT and courier's fee. Up until christmas this year, the exchange rate certainly made it worthwhile, but now the prices come out around the same. So unless it's something I really want, I buy from the UK. HTH

[Joseph O'Neil]

Shipping outside the USA is horrible, but not the fault of Badger. I live 2 hour drive from Detroit, MI, and to have stuff shipped to me in Canada, be it mail, FedEx, or whomever, costs me - without exaggeration - 3 times more money than having it shipped to Detroit or Port Huron (an hour's drive from me).

As for Badger themselves, I have ordered a camera, film, and a lens (or two) with a single problem. I never have to explain to them about shipping to Canada, they understand right away. Would order from them agian in a heartbeat.

jeo

[Peter De Smidt]

I live an hour's driver from Badger Graphics, and I've been giving Jeff most of my money for years. He's knowledgeable, friendly, responsive to inquiries, and their prices are great. If I need something, Badger is the first place I'll look.

[gevalia]

Paul,

I've ordered from Badger quite a few times and have always been happy. Shipping has also been a bit quicker then I have expected.

Ron

[Paul Greeves]

Canham JMC810 is now on order. Should be here is a couple of weeks. I managed to pursued a local dealer to order the camera for the import + duty equivalent.

[Joseph O'Neil]

I live an hour's driver from Badger Graphics, and I've been giving Jeff most of my money for years.
-snip-

ACK! How do you cope with the temptation? If I lived an hour's drive from Badger, I'd be bankrupt and divorced by now.
:D

[jnantz]

if you are buying from badger ( or maybe anyone else )
make sure whatever you are getting is on hand, or closeby ..
a few years ago i bought a toho 5x7 to 4x5 film holder adapter through badger
and while i haver no complaints ( they didn't charge my credit card until the object arrived from the far east )
it was a two or three month wait because of a hold-up in customs ...

i am not sure if customs hold ups are still common, i haven't bought anything in ages,
but it might be something to keep in mind ... if you had planned on using your new-stuffs in the late spring / early summer ...

[thrice]

Just a word of warning to anyone thinking of importing into Australia from Badger Graphic, although Jeff agreed to keep the customs declaration down to under $900 (I'm aware this is against their policy - and the law) and I reiterated no less than 4 times that it was the only way I could afford it, Jeff still declared the package as full value.

I am now stuck with a $600 customs fee and trying to work out a fair solution with Jeff as I feel I was somewhat misled by him.

[RJC]

We have to accept your word that Jeff agreed to this but given as you remind everyone it is not just against Badger Graphic's stated policy -

"We do not lower the value of packages we ship for customs declarations."

it is also against the law. The insurance offered by the courier would be on the declared value not on the full value of the goods.

I have dealt with Jeff recently and would never have contemplated requesting that he lower the value, he's got too much to lose - what's the loss of one sale compared to his possible conviction for fraud and his business reputation ?

[Tony Lakin]

I was thinking of a Canham JMC810. I did briefly own a wooden Canham, which developed a fault and the retailer wouldn't obtain a replacement for me and has refunded my money.

One of the joins on the Canham had come unstuck and the wood split as a result. I had the camera for just three weeks. Hens, my decision to try the all metal camera.

Paul
It is not my wish to throw a spanner into the works but I have had a JMC for about 5 years which replaced my Devere Devon 10x8, the JMC is a good camera but in my opinion has rigidity issues, I recently purchased a Sinar Norma 10x8 on Ebay which is nice and rigid although maybe not quite as portable as the JMC, if you have not used a JMC I would suggest you try and locate a user in your area and ask if you cal have a look before purchasing.

Regards

[thrice]

We have to accept your word that Jeff agreed to this but given as you remind everyone it is not just against Badger Graphic's stated policy -

"We do not lower the value of packages we ship for customs declarations."

it is also against the law. The insurance offered by the courier would be on the declared value not on the full value of the goods.

I have dealt with Jeff recently and would never have contemplated requesting that he lower the value, he's got too much to lose - what's the loss of one sale compared to his possible conviction for fraud and his business reputation ?

All valid points. I would have purchased locally but there is no longer an Ebony dealer in Australia. When I asked Jeff I provided every opportunity to refuse.

Thankfully Jeff has come through with a solution that I find completely satisfactory. All's well that ends well.

[Louis Pacilla]

Paul
It is not my wish to throw a spanner into the works but I have had a JMC for about 5 years which replaced my Devere Devon 10x8, the JMC is a good camera but in my opinion has rigidity issues, I recently purchased a Sinar Norma 10x8 on Ebay which is nice and rigid although maybe not quite as portable as the JMC, if you have not used a JMC I would suggest you try and locate a user in your area and ask if you cal have a look before purchasing.

Regards

Hey Tony. I don't think Paul has much of chance to heed your warning on the Rigidity issues .He ordered the camera 2 years ago. The OP started this thread in April 2009.:)

[Tony Lakin]

Hey Tony. I don't think Paul has much of chance to heed your warning on the Rigidity issues .He ordered the camera 2 years ago. The OP started this thread in April 2009.:)

Yes, I should have checked back, I have even contributed a post a couple of years back:o must have been all the excitement due to the royal wedding:D

[Ross Chambers]

Just a word of warning to anyone thinking of importing into Australia from Badger Graphic, although Jeff agreed to keep the customs declaration down to under $900 (I'm aware this is against their policy - and the law) and I reiterated no less than 4 times that it was the only way I could afford it, Jeff still declared the package as full value.

I am now stuck with a $600 customs fee and trying to work out a fair solution with Jeff as I feel I was somewhat misled by him.

Didn't you read my post?

Serve you right, thanks for helping to pay my pension.

[Barry Kirsten]

Just a word of warning to anyone thinking of importing into Australia from Badger Graphic, although Jeff agreed to keep the customs declaration down to under $900 (I'm aware this is against their policy - and the law) and I reiterated no less than 4 times that it was the only way I could afford it, Jeff still declared the package as full value.

I am now stuck with a $600 customs fee and trying to work out a fair solution with Jeff as I feel I was somewhat misled by him.

As a matter of curiosity, what was the value of your order? It seems to me that a $600 Customs fee is exorbitant - a fine maybe?

Barry.

[jeroldharter]

25% is the Norwegian VAT equivalent...

I looked up Norwegian tax rates. The top income tax is 48% plus a 14% payroll tax totalling 62%.

So a $2000 camera costs $2500 including the VAT for which one would have to make $6,580 pre-tax to buy a $2000 camera.

Ouch.

[mdm]

I dont see where you were misled. Nobody forced you to buy. You already benefited by paying no gst or taxes on the first AUD1000, a silly limit that places local australian business at a huge disadvantage in the global marketplace. Not to mention the strength of a currency built on mines and other dirty stuff that happens in the middle of nowhere and which touches your life in no meaningful way except financially.

[kev curry]

This is commonly known as fraud and is a well known ploy to ''our'' Customs and Excise authorities. The penalties are not worth the risk.
(emphasis added)

Yes, spoken like a petty little official with the mind of an apparatchik...how predictably sad:D

[Barry Kirsten]

You already benefited by paying no gst or taxes on the first AUD1000, a silly limit that places local australian business at a huge disadvantage in the global marketplace.

So what? It's about time Australian businesses became more competitive. They don't mind sloppy service and limited stock range while they're making profits, but the moment they feel the squeeze they start to scream about people buying online. If the current GST arrangement encourages better competition, I'm all for it. I just wish I could afford my new 5x7 at the moment while the AU$ is so strong!:p

Baz.

[Michael Wynd]

I bought a Shen Hao 4x5 and later a Tachihara 8x10 with 300mm lens and 10 film holders from Jeff and never had a problem. I did have to wait 4-5 months for the 8x10 to come through, but Jeff kept me appraised of when it was due and made every effort to help me. I have not been disappointed with his service and would recommend buying from him to enyone. My order for the Tachihara lens film holders and film came to over $4000 AUD and I had to pay about $450 in duties, but I didn't have a problem with that. considering what I got, it wasn't really too much in taxes, and the tax free amount is much better than it was years ago. Ayone who thinks that they can get out of paying taxes in OZ is either dead or living in dreamland.
Mike

[Gary Tarbert]

Jeff is great answers emails delivers on time no problems , funny story my local supplier knew i dealt with Badgers so tried to change me back to local (i was prepared to pay a little more)And to his credit contacted Fuji (aus)to formulate a plan , The result
They came back to me with a proposal that equated to something like this 1.You will commit to so many sheets per month2.you will pay double + badgers prices and you will expect to wait a month minimum for delivery Ordered from jeff the same night 8days later arrived , And i have never attempted to deal local on Lf since !! Cheers Gary
BTW my local supplier is great for everything else!!

[Gary Tarbert]

I dont see where you were misled. Nobody forced you to buy. You already benefited by paying no gst or taxes on the first AUD1000, a silly limit that places local australian business at a huge disadvantage in the global marketplace. Not to mention the strength of a currency built on mines and other dirty stuff that happens in the middle of nowhere and which touches your life in no meaningful way except financially.The problem is deeper than that , Many USA & Asian countries will understate value on essoteric items , such as LF cameras , Hey we know , But a Ebony camera top of the range is $5,000 as far as we are concerned , to a customs worker it's just an old fasioned camera and i can't believe they paid $900 for!!! I can buy a good digital for that . Cheers Gary