Chamonix Users

[KJ Smith]

Howdy,

I like to shoot landscapes/nature. I tend to shoot wide.

I am considering this for my first 4X5. 045n-1

Now that you have used yours, do you still like it ?

Is it holding up well ?

To much camera for a beginner ?

Is the Universal Bellows worth the extra $$ ?

Would I be better of with another camera ?

Any other advice ?


Thanks
Kevin

[Rafael Garcia]

The 45N-1 will be perfect for you, from what you say. The only issue you will have is the lack of instructions: there are several "hidden" latches that lock and unlock functions you may not know are there...several websites show these. Don't know what you refer to as "universal" bellows. The factory bellows work well for all landscape situations I have shot (widest lens 90mm), so I have no need for bag bellows. The factory bellows can probably be used with up to a 65mm lens. Someone else please verify this.

[KJ Smith]

Rafael,

Thanks for the response.

Here is a link to the Universal bellows.


http://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/bellow.html

I don't know how to rename links, so I have to do it this way. :)

Kevin

[Daniel_Buck]

the universal bellows allow for more movement than the regular bellows for wide lenses, however if you know you will mostly be shooting wide, then I would try to get a set of bag bellows. A bag will most likely be even easier on movements than the universal bellows. I believe VinnyW here said that the Shen Hao bag bellows fit onto the Chamonix, I don't know if he had to do any modifications or not, but it would probably be worth it for shooting wide lenses.

With a 90mm lens I'm able to do full rise and full shift (together, or independently) with the universal bellows, with the regular bellows I was probalby only able to do 1/2 of that. Though when done together, it's obvious that the bellows are about at their limit, I've never actually had a shot that required both of them together, but if I did need this fairly often I would opt for a bag instead. Maybe Vinny can pop in and give us a word on the Shen Hao bag?

[Alex Wei]

Yep, I still love my 045n, every time I go hiking it's in my bag with 2 lenses and 10 sheets of films, very light weight, very space saving.

My camera is one of the first batches made, and it's still holding up pretty well. I used it not very often, maybe twice a month.

I haven't use the bag bellow, but one of my friends has one and according to him it worth every penny of it.

But if you tend to shoot wider than 90mm, take Daniel's advice, get a bag bellow.

[willwilson]

The Chamonix 45n-1 is a fantastic camera. It's light weight but very stable. It has excellent movement capabilities and can use a lens from 47mm(flat board!) to 450mm(with extension). I have the universal bellows and it works great for my 75mm and 47mmXL. If you need lots of movements with a lens shorter than 75mm you need a bag bellows to get the full amount of front rise/fall/tilt/shift. I have not run into a situation where I would need a bag bellows, but it could happen with lens 75mm or shorter, 90mm should be fine with universal bellows.

[uniB]

Yep, still love mine too after about a year of ownership. Certainly fine for a beginner with all the movements you'd need. Just make sure everything's squared up and tightened down. I still have the standard bellows I can use my 65mm OK but with pretty much no movement, that doesn't really bother me as I rarely use that lens and if I do it needs very little movement anyway. It's fine with a 90mm.

[Clement Apffel]

I got the 45n-1 about a year ago.

I use it a lot. And so far, I’m very happy with it. Light weight, sturdy and adaptable.
And as the factory is getting feedback from first owners, your camera will probably be better than mine.

I wouldn’t say that the bag bellows is a must have for wide.
Actually I wish I have bought the universal bellows. Because the bellows are quite inconvenient to remove and set on the field and you cannot fold the camera with the bag bellows.
Plus for my 90mm and 65mm, the standard bellows is doing ok.
It robs a bit of movements on my 90 but is ok. (EDIT : with a recessed lensboard)

I really wish I got the universal bellows.
I actually have the use of the bag bellows sometimes when I want to use the full range of movements allowed with my 90, same with the next lens I’ll purchase.
But I would not recommend this item as the universal bellows will match the needs of all my lenses without robbing movements to wide lenses.

Of course this camera is not as precise as some others probably are.
I looked a lot of folding camera before getting mine, and for my needs: landscape (lightweight), architecture (lot of movements + wide angle abilities) and low cost it was the best choice to make.
For the $$$, it is clearly unbeatable.

For landscape and backpacking, I use it on a cheap SLR tripod (backpack about 3.5kg including tripod!). And for architecture I use a Manfrotto with a 3-way head.

I think it is an excellent learning camera as well.

And oh, yes, last thing: don’t worry about the hidden settings someone has mentioned, you’ll find them and there is plenty of website where you can find user’s guide for this camera. (Including by asking questions here)
Moreover, all the folding camera I had the opportunity to try before getting this one have some hidden stuff as well.

Great camera.

[Daniel_Buck]

I actually have the use of the bag bellows sometimes

Is this a bag you made yourself? or another brand that fits? I thought Chamonix didn't make a bag bellows?

[Peter De Smidt]

Chamonix makes a bag bellows.

[Clement Apffel]

indeed.
I ordered mine from Hugo at the same time as the camera.

[gevalia]

Have had my Chamonix 4x5 for 8 months. used only for landscapes. 90mm f8 thru 14" f9 on the standard bellows. Bubbles are useless - I always carry a submarine level from Home Depot. Very easy to use and cheap. GG comes off for attaching Panoramic back which fits either portrait or landscape orientation. Carbon fiber base is very rigid when extended out for my 14" lens. Front tilt, swing, rise, fall. Rear tilt and swing. Light enough to carry on the tripod or in the backpack which means more rom for my double-darks since I don't shoot quickloads. Never used anything but the standard bellows - never used more than a few degrees of front swing/tilt with the 90mm so cannot talk on that.

I'm a beginner (less than 2 years in film and LF) and I probably abuse the camera more then I should. It has held up well and do not see an issue with it. But you do need to get use to it being so light.

[Archphoto]

It is the first time I see this camera...... and I am in love with it !
I still have a Sinar P2, but for the outdoors this is the one.

Thanks for posting and your comments, Chamonix has an other fan !

Peter

[Robert Oliver]

just received my universal bellows from hugo... great addition to the camera. I shoot as wide as 75mm.

[Daniel_Buck]

Chamonix makes a bag bellows.

ah, I wasn't aware of this :)

[vinny]

Anyone else found that your roll film holders or other backs are not held firmly in place when the ground glass is removed and rotary clips are engaged? I discovered this when trying to use my shen hao 6x12 holder in the camera for the first time. The clips aren't close enough to the frame so I've had to add several layers of tape to the back so that the clips put pressure on the back. Without the tape, the back flops around and light leaks/focus would be an issue.
I tested my fuji pa-45 back, polaroid pack film holder, and 545i as well. All had the same sloppy results. I'm pretty sure I have a 45N-1 from the first year's production.




regarding the she hao bag bellows- no modification needed to fit the chamonix 45N-1

[KJ Smith]

Thanks for all the great responses !!!

Is there a downside to upgrading to the universal bellows ?


Other than the cost. :)


Kevin

[BarryS]

Thanks for all the great responses !!!

Is there a downside to upgrading to the universal bellows ?


Other than the cost. :)


Kevin

No downside at all. (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=39735&highlight=chamonix+universal)

[KJ Smith]

Thanks Barry !!!

Thats what I hoped.

Have you tried the film holders ?

Thanks
Kevin

[BarryS]

Thanks Barry !!!

Thats what I hoped.

Have you tried the film holders ?

Thanks
Kevin

Do you mean the Chamonix wood film holders? No, I haven't tried them, but they look beautiful--just a bit expensive for my taste.

[KJ Smith]

Yea, the wood ones are probably over the top.

What lens would you recommend for a beginner ?

I hear that I should stay away from wide lenses until I learn the camera.

Wide is different for different people.


Would a 125mm be to hard to learn with ?

Thanks Again
Kevin

[Walter Jakubowski]

I am a Chamonix user as well. I fell in love with the design when I first set my sights
on it and find it a pleasure to use as well. I purchased mine with the universal bellows
after reading the discussion forums as I seem to prefer wider angle shots. It seems to
suit my needs just fine. My first lens was a 150mm however if you prefer the wider angle that the 125 provides, go for it. I also have a 125 and get a lot of use out of it.

happy shooting,
Walter J. www.wjakubowski.com

[BarryS]

I really like a 150mm lens to start with. Something like a 150mm Sironar-N (aka Caltar IIN) is excellent quality and can be used for a lot of subjects. It's also very reasonably priced.

[Clement Apffel]

I'll second Barry on the 150 sironar-N.
Excellent lens. Sharp, decent movement abilities, and very light weight.
Perfect starter lens.

I started LF with that one myself. I never regretted that purchase and I still use it a lot.

However, a 120mm lens can be a good choice as well if you are planning to do mostly landscape.

[Rakesh Malik]

I really like a 150mm lens to start with. Something like a 150mm Sironar-N (aka Caltar IIN) is excellent quality and can be used for a lot of subjects. It's also very reasonably priced.

I got one of the 135mm versions of the same lens because I found a used one at Badger, and I would heartily second that. It's a great lens; very compact, very sharp. I tend to use it for closeup photography as well as for landscapes, and it does a great job there, also.

[Chris Dunham]

Great camera, buy one, start shooting and you won't look back, I wouldent be without mine :)

Chris.

[Lon Overacker]

Kevin,

Had my Chaminox for less than a year and I love this camera. I started out with a Bush Pressman nearly 20 yrs ago - graduated to a cheap Nagaoka field camera, then a Wista, then a Zone VI (both the traditional and Ultralight.) I really liked the Zone VI (pre-Calumet days) but it had one too many Humpty-dumpty accidents and finally I couldn't put Humpty back together again.

The Chaminox is a solid and sturdy camera, despite it's very light weight. The construction is excellent and the tolerances of the worm-screw focusing design is tight and wonderful to use. My only minor complaint are the bubble levels as already mentioned, but I don't really care about that. for the landscape/nature stuff that I do, I'm usually eye-balling it, or relying on the grid lines.

I have 5 lenses ranging from 75mm to 450mm - both Nikkor. To get to 450, you need the extension rack. and for such a simple piece of hardware, I have been extremely happy with the rigidity when I rack out the bellows and extension for the 450.

I have no problems with movements with the 75mm. I don't recall the image circle of this lens off-hand. But just so you know, I have the standard bellows and a standard lens board and have plenty of movement with the 75.

As far as a starter lens, that's a tough one. You probably should consider what your favorite focal length is in your current format and get something close to that. I started off with a 90 and a 210. I still use the 210 quite often, but the 90 was eventually traded for the 75. For a wide to normal starter, I think 125, 135, 150 would be good starting points. But you might consider also what your next lens might be and try to have a reasonable spacing between focal lengths.

But for learning, I would probably go with a standard 150. It's probably a good focal length for practicing movements, focus, etc.

As far as film holders go, while a brand new wooden holder will look pretty, I can't see the expense. Get yourself some used Fidelity or Riteway holders - OR go the Quickload route. Lots of folks use the QL's, but the film is slightly more expensive that the loose sheet film.

Good luck!
Lon

[Larry Gebhardt]

Does anyone have any experience slipping a Graphmatic under the ground glass? This works fine on my Shen-Hao, though at first I was worried about the springs. I'm thinking of getting a Chamonix because of the weight savings and the longer extension.

[KJ Smith]

Kevin,

Had my Chaminox for less than a year and I love this camera. I started out with a Bush Pressman nearly 20 yrs ago - graduated to a cheap Nagaoka field camera, then a Wista, then a Zone VI (both the traditional and Ultralight.) I really liked the Zone VI (pre-Calumet days) but it had one too many Humpty-dumpty accidents and finally I couldn't put Humpty back together again.

The Chaminox is a solid and sturdy camera, despite it's very light weight. The construction is excellent and the tolerances of the worm-screw focusing design is tight and wonderful to use. My only minor complaint are the bubble levels as already mentioned, but I don't really care about that. for the landscape/nature stuff that I do, I'm usually eye-balling it, or relying on the grid lines.

I have 5 lenses ranging from 75mm to 450mm - both Nikkor. To get to 450, you need the extension rack. and for such a simple piece of hardware, I have been extremely happy with the rigidity when I rack out the bellows and extension for the 450.

I have no problems with movements with the 75mm. I don't recall the image circle of this lens off-hand. But just so you know, I have the standard bellows and a standard lens board and have plenty of movement with the 75.

As far as a starter lens, that's a tough one. You probably should consider what your favorite focal length is in your current format and get something close to that. I started off with a 90 and a 210. I still use the 210 quite often, but the 90 was eventually traded for the 75. For a wide to normal starter, I think 125, 135, 150 would be good starting points. But you might consider also what your next lens might be and try to have a reasonable spacing between focal lengths.

But for learning, I would probably go with a standard 150. It's probably a good focal length for practicing movements, focus, etc.

As far as film holders go, while a brand new wooden holder will look pretty, I can't see the expense. Get yourself some used Fidelity or Riteway holders - OR go the Quickload route. Lots of folks use the QL's, but the film is slightly more expensive that the loose sheet film.

Good luck!
Lon

Lon,

Thanks for taking the time to post all this great info.

Kevin

On Edit :

Lon, its not often that I comment on someones site. Your work is awesome, its the exact style I like. I see the influences from all the greats.
I have bookmarked your site in order to go back and study it in depth.

I like equipment and why page.

Kevin

[Helen Bach]

Does anyone have any experience slipping a Graphmatic under the ground glass? This works fine on my Shen-Hao, though at first I was worried about the springs. I'm thinking of getting a Chamonix because of the weight savings and the longer extension.

Larry,

Grafmatics slip under, and are held by the ground glass on my Chamonix. It can also take the thicker Polaroid 550 holder easily.

I use mine with lenses from 55 mm to 300 mm, and a 400 mm tele - all with the bellows that came with the Christmas 2007 batch. I've ordered the bag bellows and I'm still waiting. I'm very happy with it as a general purpose camera.

Best,
Helen

[jasonjoo]

Not sure if this is appropriate or not, but I'm selling my Chamonix 045N-1 here on LF. It's currently on the classified section!

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=47209

I've had it since the beginning of August, but only used it twice (and in my own home)! It's a fine camera!

Jason

[lilmsmaggie]

Great camera, buy one, start shooting and you won't look back.
Chris.

I'm SOLD !

The Chamonix 045n-1 is the camera of choice as my first LF, in my new adventure learning LF photography. After reading all of your threads receiving some feedback from experienced and novices alike, I've decide that as a beginner, the Chamonix equipped with universal bellows, and 150mm len will be enjoyable tools in which to learn to use and developing my photographic eye.

[plepagejp]

I'm SOLD !

The Chamonix 045n-1 is the camera of choice as my first LF, in my new adventure learning LF photography. After reading all of your threads receiving some feedback from experienced and novices alike, I've decide that as a beginner, the Chamonix equipped with universal bellows, and 150mm len will be enjoyable tools in which to learn to use and developing my photographic eye.

You won't be disappointed. I've had my for a little over a month now and love it. Am dreaming of the day I can move up a format or two.

[KJ Smith]

Dang!!!, you guys are moving a lot faster than me. :mad:

Kevin

[lilmsmaggie]

Not really Kevin ...

I still have to acquire the camera, lens and other trappings. The only piece of gear I have are two tripods. We'll all get there.

[venchka]

Kevin has a cute "introduction to 4x5" camera. He just needs to break it out. Original Zeiss Pre-WWII Tessar even.

[KJ Smith]

Tattle tale :)

This weekend I hope.

[timberline12k]

I purchased my Chamonix 045n-1 today and I should receive it later this week. I also picked up two used lenses that arrived today. I would like to go the quickload route and send my film to a lab for developing. Where would you suggest I purchase my film and have it developed? Cost, service etc. I am a complete novice at LF but would like to take a few photos to get the ball rolling. What film for landscape, spring flowers etc. is the highest quality? I don't plan to shoot a high volume of film (thats what I have digital for) so I don't mind using the best film. I would like to capture some really special shots on LF.

Wherever I purchase this from, it would be nice if they had someone to talk to that understood LF. I don't even know how to load the film or loader into the camera. I would like to have the images put on a CD.

Is there instant film still available and is that a way to test whether I am setting up the exposure correctly?

I would like to limp by without a spotmeter for awhile. Can I use my D700 to check readings?

[Larry Gebhardt]

Larry,

Grafmatics slip under, and are held by the ground glass on my Chamonix. It can also take the thicker Polaroid 550 holder easily.

I use mine with lenses from 55 mm to 300 mm, and a 400 mm tele - all with the bellows that came with the Christmas 2007 batch. I've ordered the bag bellows and I'm still waiting. I'm very happy with it as a general purpose camera.

Best,
Helen

Thanks Helen.

Now that I have one of my own I can concur that the Grafmatics slip under fine, but the springs on mine aren't really strong enough to hold it tight. Luckily the rotating tabs are easy to use and help make sure it's on there tight.

The Shen-Hao bag bellows fit this camera fine, which was a nice surprise.

The 6x17 panoramic back is a bit loose. I flipped the rotating tabs over and it helped a bit. I added some gaffers tape to the back to act as a spacer. The Chamonix also doesn't have a nice felt around the film frame to act as a light trap like the Shen-Hao. I don't think this is causing the looseness issue, but it could be.

[Archphoto]

@Timberline12k: I have been using Fuji color neg for years, is a good allround film.
For B&W Ilford 125 ASA is nice, Velvia 50 for slides (1/15 at f:22 with sun in your back),
but there are so many other good films around.
For filmholders go for the Fidelity's, they are good and not too expensive.
A dark cloth, a focussing magnifier, cable release and: good weather !!!!

Enjoy !

Peter