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Gene McCluney
16-Mar-2009, 15:42
I absolutely HATE so called "doom and gloom" type of posts, as it gets me all tensed up, but I think I should relate this.

I just got a shipment from Freestyle (film and neg sleeves), and got a print-out enclosed indicating that Kentmere Kentona, Bromide, Fineprint and Select VC have been discontinued in most sizes, in addition to Fotospeed Lith FB matte and semi-matte in some sizes, and of course various Forte papers (we knew that already, of course), but there are some Foma sizes and product discontinued also. I don't know if this means just FREESTYLE is discontinuing, or if Harman is discontinuing (regarding Kentmere).

Update:

I telephoned Freestyle, and they said the Kentmere Bromide FB is discontinued, and all except 8x10 and 11x14 sizes of Kentona, then some sizes of Kentmere Fineprint Warm Tone and Neutral Tone Finegrain Semi Matt and Glossy, and then some roll and sheet sizes of Kentmere Select VC Glossy.

They also said that their comparable Arista private label paper made by Kentmere (Harman) is discontinued but will be replaced with another paper in the fall.

Toyon
16-Mar-2009, 19:28
What Kentmere fiber product does that leave? Also, doesn't Kentmere make Adox Variotone for them?

Drew Wiley
16-Mar-2009, 19:49
Is this just a distribution issue with Freestyle? Just got a 50-sheet box of 20X24
Fineprint from them. This is the finest VC paper I've ever used, as far as tonality goes. Hate to lose another good paper right on the heels of the demise of Forte.
B&H still shows inventory. But in today's wacky economy, who knows what will happen next. I was hoping to try some 30-inch wide stock. But before there's a panic
we need to know the facts.

Gene McCluney
16-Mar-2009, 20:15
Is this just a distribution issue with Freestyle? Just got a 50-sheet box of 20X24
Fineprint from them. This is the finest VC paper I've ever used, as far as tonality goes. Hate to lose another good paper right on the heels of the demise of Forte.
B&H still shows inventory. But in today's wacky economy, who knows what will happen next. I was hoping to try some 30-inch wide stock. But before there's a panic
we need to know the facts.

I agree we need to know. Freestyle told me today on the phone that the products I mentioned in my post were discontinued. They also told me that they would continue to carry all available Kentmere product. So, I guess you can guess from there.

willwilson
16-Mar-2009, 21:39
Wow. If true this is terrible news. I need a freezer.

Sanjay Sen
16-Mar-2009, 22:05
If this really is the case (I am just hoping it is not), then it is bad news. I wonder why Harman would do this after acquiring Kentmere, and the immediate answer that comes to mind is not one I like to think. On the other hand, I don't see it as being a technical issue if Kentmere could make those papers and Harman/Ilford cannot, but I am no expert. Could it be unavailability of a key component? I don't know. I just hope we get some clarity on this matter.

vinny
16-Mar-2009, 22:12
Freestyle told me several months ago that the rebranded Kentmere (ultra II or whatever ) was discontinued and only what they had on the shelves remained. I hope Kentmere finegrain vc isn't going away. Maybe I'll quit photography.

Pete Watkins
17-Mar-2009, 01:32
POP's gone as well, over here we call it asset stripping.
Pete.

John Powers
17-Mar-2009, 03:55
A little more information here,
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum172/59956-news-kentmere.html

including the link from PHOTOTONE to what is on clearance at Freestyle the US distributor.

“Here you go, the clearance pages:

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/clearance.php
__________________
Phototone”

The implication to me, until we hear from Simon at Ilford, is that what is not on clearance may be continued for a while. I use the listed Fineprint VC 20x24 for 8x10 negative enlargements. I use 16x20 split for 7x17 contacts. The 20x24 is listed. The 16x20 is not. It is like waiting for the other shoe to drop.

John

IanG
17-Mar-2009, 04:56
Best read this. (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum172/60144-kentmere-range-update-harman.html)

The latest news from Ilford/Harman Technology.

Ian

Pete Watkins
17-Mar-2009, 05:34
That great British tradituion of blaming Health & Safety regulations for not producing products that you can't screw the maximum profit out of is alive and well. It's a shame that they can't use that other great opportunity of blaming European Health & Safety regulations as Foma is made in Europe.
Kentmere was asset stripped!
But thats just my opinion.
Pete

keeds
17-Mar-2009, 06:20
Just out of curiosity what assets do you think were stripped?

Gene McCluney
17-Mar-2009, 06:28
Just out of curiosity what assets do you think were stripped?


If you purchase a company, then discontinue its products, you then increase your market share at less cost.

Keith Tapscott.
17-Mar-2009, 06:37
If you purchase a company, then discontinue its products, you then increase your market share at less cost.Gene, the reason for discontinuing three of the Kentmere products were clearly given
and is nothing to do with asset stripping. Read Simon Galley`s post in the link that Ian provided. I am looking forward to trying the new additions to their Fineprint range when they become available.

Sanjay Sen
17-Mar-2009, 07:05
Gene, the reason for discontinuing three of the Kentmere products were clearly given
and is nothing to do with asset stripping. Read Simon Galley`s post in the link that Ian provided. I am looking forward to trying the new additions to their Fineprint range when they become available.

Did you really expect Harman to spell it out? The fact that Kentmere could make those papers and Harman cannot, despite being bigger (and better?), does not seem logical to me. I am only referencing POP and Kentona - the Art Document series was discontinued by Kentmere prior to the acquisition.

I agree with Pete: this looks like asset stripping to me.

I support Harman/Ilford and use their products a lot (all my paper chemistry is from Ilford), but I cannot agree with this decision nor do I find it logical.

Just my $0.02.


Regards,
Sanjay

Pete Watkins
17-Mar-2009, 07:22
keeds,
Harman sold the Kentmere factory and most of the plant. Not to mention putting most of Kentmeres employees out of work. Kentmere was making a profit but a competitor that Harman could not handle.
Pete.

jwaddison
17-Mar-2009, 09:16
If anyone thinks this was "asset stripping" they don't understand the term. Whether or not you believe the products could have been continued, the fact is Harmon determined the products were not financially viable - whether because of health and safety regulations or for whatever reason.
Personally I want to see Harmon/Ilford survive and prosper, and if that means discontinuing marginalized products so be it.

Drew Wiley
17-Mar-2009, 09:34
Well it seems that Fineprint is safe, except in some odd sizes and surfaces. The demise
of papers containing cadmium is inevitable. In this day and age some readjustment of
products can be a matter of survival for manufacturers. I hate losing a favorite film or
paper. And my freezer is already stuffed with Ciba and dye transfer materials, and
difficult to obtain film like Astia 8x10. But I recall losing the original Seagull and Brilliant
bromide papers, as well as Portriga, almost at the same time. Things are actually a lot
better right now as far as choices are concerned.

IanG
17-Mar-2009, 09:51
Did Ilford actually buy the Kentmere factory? I've not seen anything to that effect, most of the plant was sold for scrap in the end, very little went to Mobberley.

Kentmere's parent company are still in business, at the original site, and the Photo paper side was only a small part of their overall business. So there's no reason to assume asset stripping.

With Ilford stating they are working on a VC version of Kentona, and that 3 new Kentmere papers would be launched later in the year they aren't ditching the brand, they've just launched two Kentmere films.

There's perhaps a little more to the issue of POP which makes it extremely difficult to manufacture with Ilford's modern equipment. That's unfortunate but can't be helped, it was probably the lowest selling product made by any European manufacturer.

Having dealt with Ilford commercially in the past, and met Simon Galley and various other Ilford Directors including the Chairman on a factory visit last year, along with other APUG members all I can say is that Ilford are fully committed to B&W photography, but the market has shrunk dramatically in the past 10 years and they need products to keep their coating line economic, so from that point of view buying Kentmere made total sense. The high volume was in Kentmere's other non silver based materials not the photo-papers.

Consolidation isn't asset stripping, it was an acquisition that suited both Ilford & Kentmere in a shrinking market.

Ian