Fixing Pyrocat-HD

[77seriesiii]

So today was the 'BIG' day...first bit of SUN in over 2 weeks! Wife and I wandered outside and shot the first 12 shots with our 'new' ToyoAX!!! Big excitement, really really jazzed. All exposed shots are Foma 100 4x5..Yep I'm a LF photographer now! :D

So I am now brewing Pyrocat purchased from photoformulary and reading the developer's cookbook. Soooo, I noticed the recommendation of using an alkaline fixer without hardener. I mutter a bit and look at my fixer and it is acidic, will this remove the stain of the pyro and will it work?

Secondly, how important is the fixer w/o hardener? I purchased a Kodak powder fixer from freestyle (http://www.freestylephoto.biz/1971746-Kodak-Fixer-Powder-To-Make-1-Gallon?cat_id=303). 10 minutes ago I thought I read that it was alkaline but no such luck now. Though one is acidic and says so (purchased from Macodirect and is their ecofix) the other is Kodak and is simply a general fixer.

Until I can get an alkaline fixer which of the two fixers is the better route?

Thx for the help.

./e

[Gene McCluney]

You can successfully use Kodak Rapid Fixer with hardener, if you omit the hardener (which comes in a separate bottle). I know, I have used it extensively. The Kodak powder fixer has a hardener in it (AFAIK). You should be able to find the Kodak Rapid-Fixer with Hardener at a well stocked photo store, it is the most common fix available.

The hardener component of fixers bleach out the Pyro stain, that is why you need to use a non-hardening fix. The tanning effect of the Pyro developer hardens the film quite enough.

[sanking]

Gene is correct. Kodak Rapid Fixer is fine for fixing negatives developed in Pyrocat-HD. In fact, any fixer is fine so long as it is not highly acidic.

I don't believe that the hardener will do any harm, but as Gene notes, it is not necessary because the tanning effect of Pyrocat-HD will have already hardened the film by the end of development.

Sandy



You can successfully use Kodak Rapid Fixer with hardener, if you omit the hardener (which comes in a separate bottle). I know, I have used it extensively. The Kodak powder fixer has a hardener in it (AFAIK). You should be able to find the Kodak Rapid-Fixer with Hardener at a well stocked photo store, it is the most common fix available.

The hardener component of fixers bleach out the Pyro stain, that is why you need to use a non-hardening fix. The tanning effect of the Pyro developer hardens the film quite enough.

[77seriesiii]

Sandy/Gene;

Thanks for the quick responses!!

So with what I have right now it might be a bit of a crap shoot the film will fix but I may lose the stain. Ok, I'm good with that as a temp until I find an alkaline fix. I'll mix up the kodak, just to use it as a test. So I will do one photo with the Macofix (acidic) and one with the Kodak w/hardener (its powder so no chance of taking out the hard). Since I took 2 photos of everything I'll do two separate photos and see how them come out.

Is there a chemical or lack of chemical that defines an alkaline fixer? I am asking as I will buy the fixer at a German photo store (maco or fotoimpex) and the fixer portion of both sites are in German and list chem ingredients.

Thanks again

Erick

[sanking]

First, I would not be concerned about losing the stain. That won't happen unless the fixer is especially acidic. Most general purpose fixers are not strongly acidic and work fine.

Alkaline fixers like TF-3 and TF-4 generally have a lot of sulfite and some metaoborate, which raise the pH. But these fixers are not necessary for Pyrocat-HD.

Just use a regular acid stop bath at about 1/2 strength and whatever fixer you have and you should be fine.

Sandy King






Sandy/Gene;

Thanks for the quick responses!!

So with what I have right now it might be a bit of a crap shoot the film will fix but I may lose the stain. Ok, I'm good with that as a temp until I find an alkaline fix. I'll mix up the kodak, just to use it as a test. So I will do one photo with the Macofix (acidic) and one with the Kodak w/hardener (its powder so no chance of taking out the hard). Since I took 2 photos of everything I'll do two separate photos and see how them come out.

Is there a chemical or lack of chemical that defines an alkaline fixer? I am asking as I will buy the fixer at a German photo store (maco or fotoimpex) and the fixer portion of both sites are in German and list chem ingredients.

Thanks again

Erick

[77seriesiii]

So developed my first 4x5 today in Pyrocat HD, using taco method!! First one came out good but the rubber bands came off. So feeling froggy, developed two more and this time it appears the rubber bands left behind a bit of themselves on the back side of the negative. I did try the Macofix (acidic) on this one so maybe its a bit tooo acidic? Not sure. slightly disappointed but learning and happy with that. So I took a step back and examined the other negative (first one, where the bands fell/rolled off) and I noticed two v. faint lines about where I put the bands. So now I am thinking the rubber bands I bought may not be a good thing for the taco method. I'll go out tomorrow and get some of the cloth hair bands and give them a whirl. Unless the wife has hair bands...might just rummage around the bathroom, she wont miss them...

./e

BTW film I'm using is fomapan 100 4x5

[sanking]

I have never used Foma 100, nor developed with the "taco" method. However, before making a lot of adjustments in your technique you might want to extend the fixing time, making sure that it is fresh, and perhaps even put the film in a hypo eliminator for a few minutes before washing it. Some films have backings that are very difficult to remove with normal processing and this may what you are experiencing with the rubber band marks.

Sandy King



So developed my first 4x5 today in Pyrocat HD, using taco method!! First one came out good but the rubber bands came off. So feeling froggy, developed two more and this time it appears the rubber bands left behind a bit of themselves on the back side of the negative. I did try the Macofix (acidic) on this one so maybe its a bit tooo acidic? Not sure. slightly disappointed but learning and happy with that. So I took a step back and examined the other negative (first one, where the bands fell/rolled off) and I noticed two v. faint lines about where I put the bands. So now I am thinking the rubber bands I bought may not be a good thing for the taco method. I'll go out tomorrow and get some of the cloth hair bands and give them a whirl. Unless the wife has hair bands...might just rummage around the bathroom, she wont miss them...

./e

BTW film I'm using is fomapan 100 4x5

[77seriesiii]

Sandy I think the backings are difficult to remove with this film. Newish film with very old style of making/putting it together. Minus the white band, the negative seems really cool. Update, processed with a thin hairband...same basic result except for a solid white band its banded. So I have to re-think how I am processing as the film seems to be temperamental. At first I thought I had the film curved the wrong way emulsion side out but based on foma states I got it right.

Development wise. Brand new Pyrocat HD, developed 13 minutes minimal agitation. Fixer brand new as well. Its odd, almost like the image was never developed or was wiped off the negative. When we scan it, I'll figure out how to post here for comments.

Too late to troubleshoot the process time to watch some telly and pick it up tomorrow after the real job.

I think with foma the 'taco' method is not the way to go. In a form of consolation, I am glad the images captured over the weekend were for experimentation purposes and learning. In the process of getting a tank.

Thanks for the help and suggestions.

[Jim Michael]

At what point in the process did you remove the band?

[Andrew O'Neill]

I use Ilford rapid fix as my main fixer. I've also used a simple fixer that I mix up occasionally using only sodium thiosulfate and sodium sulfite. For stop bath I just use a bit of vinegar and water. No worries with stain removal.
What the heck is the taco method??

[77seriesiii]

taco method is using a rubber band to fold the negative, emulsion side in, and drop it into a reel tank.

Jim: I remved the bands at the end. I know that can be part of the problem, at least what I have read last night.

Speaking of last night, I gues my brain worked through a possible problem with my tech. On Foma, i'm sure others, the notch goes in the upper right, with short side facing you. My process yesterday was to:

1) remove film place on counter
2) take film holder and darkside off immediate counter to get them out of the way
3) pick of film, locate notch in top right corner, fold...no crease.
4) drop in canister, close lid and fill with water for 5 minutes....and then on to the rest of the story.

I am pretty sure now that I turned the film and had the emulsion on the outside, its the only thing that makes sense. The spots where the rubber band and hair band rested are completely blank, like expsed blank or no developer hit them blank but the fixer did. I did mention I'm new at this right? :rolleyes:

Tonight I'll try another sheet and let you know how it goes.

./e

[IanG]

I've been using Pyrocat HD with Fomapan 100 & 200 in 120 & 5x4 with excellent results, but the dev times need to be about 2/3rs those of other films.

The Foma films build up contrast extremely quickly so over-development needs to be avoided

Ian

[77seriesiii]

Ian,

I was using 12 minutes to develop, is that correct or too long? I am using 1:1:100 dilution.

Thnx

Erick