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babavaga
2-Mar-2009, 15:08
Good day. I'm a new one in this forum - reading it for a long time I just decided to write :-)

I've bought wooden 5x7 old camera on this September. Now I've finished restoring it. It doesn't have plane filme holders - only for glass negatives. I've found one place in Russia where to buy one, but they have only ISO 100 negatives. Does anyone know if I can buy some in US or EU?

http://b0.imgsrc.ru/b/babavaga/0/11586200Edf.jpg

Mike.

Ole Tjugen
2-Mar-2009, 15:30
Slavich glass plates were available for a while from retroPhotographic, but I doubt they have any left now. Apart from those, only holographic emulsions seem to be available.

So what you should look for are not glass plates, but cut film adapters for glass plate holders. that's what I use in my old plate holders (from 6.5x9cm through 9x12cm, 4x5", 5x7" and 13x18cm to 18x24cm.

Which reminds me: Make sure that the holders are for 5x7" plates and not 13x18cm plates before you get film sheaths: sheaths for 13x18cm won't fit in most 5x7" holders, and 5x7" sheaths will drop out of some 13x18cm holders. The old plate sizes are exact, so if the plate slot is 127x178mm it's 5x7"; if 130x180mm it's 13x18cm. Those few measly millimeters really do make a difference.

dwross
2-Mar-2009, 15:41
There's always the option of making your own dry plate negatives. It may be an extra step, but you'll have a unique product and you'll never have to worry again about availability!

GPS
2-Mar-2009, 15:51
Good day. I'm a new one in this forum - reading it for a long time I just decided to write :-)

I've bought wooden 5x7 old camera on this September. Now I've finished restoring it. It doesn't have plane filme holders - only for glass negatives. I've found one place in Russia where to buy one, but they have only ISO 100 negatives. Does anyone know if I can buy some in US or EU?

http://b0.imgsrc.ru/b/babavaga/0/11586200Edf.jpg

Mike.

Amazing they still have them at all!

babavaga
2-Mar-2009, 16:14
dwross, I've tried, but the result was unstable.
GPS, Really do:
http://b0.imgsrc.ru/b/babavaga/7/12804307PSb.jpg
it's smth around $20 for six plates 9x12 cm and $50 for 5x7 ;-)

babavaga
2-Mar-2009, 16:41
Slavich glass plates were available for a while from retroPhotographic, but I doubt they have any left now. Apart from those, only holographic emulsions seem to be available.

So what you should look for are not glass plates, but cut film adapters for glass plate holders. that's what I use in my old plate holders (from 6.5x9cm through 9x12cm, 4x5", 5x7" and 13x18cm to 18x24cm.

Which reminds me: Make sure that the holders are for 5x7" plates and not 13x18cm plates before you get film sheaths: sheaths for 13x18cm won't fit in most 5x7" holders, and 5x7" sheaths will drop out of some 13x18cm holders. The old plate sizes are exact, so if the plate slot is 127x178mm it's 5x7"; if 130x180mm it's 13x18cm. Those few measly millimeters really do make a difference.

I've bought 4 packs of Slavich ISO 125 plates... they are really interesting. I have "normal" camera 4x5, but it is very interestig to make photos like my grandfa :) I thought about ISO 25 and less plates.

dwross
2-Mar-2009, 17:39
dwross, I've tried, but the result was unstable.


I'm somewhat of a 'collector' of technical and anecdotal info on dry plates. If you get a minute, could you elaborate a bit? Thanks.

babavaga
3-Mar-2009, 02:27
I'm somewhat of a 'collector' of technical and anecdotal info on dry plates. If you get a minute, could you elaborate a bit? Thanks.

I've tried ambrotip (am I right in spelling?). Wet collodion process, then putting glass on a black velvet to make it look like positive. There were some troubles with edges ans unstable speed. Maybe I didn't hold exact temperature of "silver" bath, but there were no any exact data about temperature in literature I've seen.

After several tries I've bought Slavich plates. It's orthochromatic emulsion, so if You take suitable paper it's realy like a vintage print.

I'm only on my way to a vintage photography, so If you know how to make print closer to ancient I'll be a perfect listener :)

Gene McCluney
3-Mar-2009, 07:14
I'm only on my way to a vintage photography, so If you know how to make print closer to ancient I'll be a perfect listener :)

To get the "look" of a vintage photograph with modern films, you have to use a filter to remove the colors of light that vintage films such as ortho and blue-sensitive emulsions could not see. Ambrotypes and wet-plate images could only see blue light. Ortho films could only see blue and green.

There is no temperature guideline for wet-plate work, as you work by visual inspection along the way. You leave in the silver bath until the surface "looks" correct..when viewed under safelight.

dwross
3-Mar-2009, 07:56
If you decide to give dry plate a try, Kevin Klein has posted his recipe on The Light Farm website (which I edit). It's simple and the results are very nice. His contact print on albumen paper is 'vintage' all the way.

http://www.thelightfarm.com/Map/DryPlate/MapTopic.htm

Your old camera is beautiful. Great work on the restoration.

eddie
3-Mar-2009, 08:00
can you post info on where i may be able to buy some of those dry plates? i would love to shoot a few.

if you are interested in wet plate collodion check out this site as well:

http://www.collodion.com/forum/default.asp

cheers

eddie

Bruce Schultz
3-Mar-2009, 08:35
"There is no temperature guideline for wet-plate work, as you work by visual inspection along the way. You leave in the silver bath until the surface "looks" correct..when viewed under safelight."

Just to clear things up: the plate goes in the silver bath before it's developed and even before the exposure is made. The silver bath sensitizes the collodion-coated plate to light. The plate is brought out of the bath after about 3 minutes, then the exposure is made. I limit my development to 15-20 seconds when I pour the iron-based developer on the plate. I can watch development. If the image comes up before 8 seconds, exposure was too long or my chemicals are too hot. If it takes longer than 8 seconds for the image to begin to appear, exposure was too long or my chemistry is too cold. You are correct that the whole wet-plate process is intuitive and subjective, which makes it fun and unpredictable.
Apparently there is a way of making dry plates with wet plate technology, stretching out the window of exposure to development by as long as an hour, and I plan to explore that further.

babavaga
4-Mar-2009, 02:02
To get the "look" of a vintage photograph with modern films, you have to use a filter to remove the colors of light that vintage films such as ortho and blue-sensitive emulsions could not see. Ambrotypes and wet-plate images could only see blue light. Ortho films could only see blue and green.

There is no temperature guideline for wet-plate work, as you work by visual inspection along the way. You leave in the silver bath until the surface "looks" correct..when viewed under safelight.

I have tried blue filter on my RB67 - there is no such taste.. ^:)
It's a great words: the surface "looks" correct. I think I should try more to get an experience.

dwross, Thank You! I'm reading now thelightfarm - there is much interesting information.

eddie, I can suggest You only one thing... next time I'll be in Slavich, I'll take several plates for You and send them by EMSpost.

I'm more interested in dry plates than in wet.. but I'll look thruoght. Thank You.

Bruce Schultz, I have another problem - image in center of the plate comes up faster then at the edges.

Gene McCluney
4-Mar-2009, 10:13
"There is no temperature guideline for wet-plate work, as you work by visual inspection along the way. You leave in the silver bath until the surface "looks" correct..when viewed under safelight."

Just to clear things up: the plate goes in the silver bath before it's developed and even before the exposure is made. The silver bath sensitizes the collodion-coated plate to light. The plate is brought out of the bath after about 3 minutes, then the exposure is made.

It is my understanding that the "look" of the plate coming out of the silver bath indicates the degree of sensitization. If it doesn't have a certain "look" then you put it back in for a period of time. (Of course you view under safelight conditions)

Gene McCluney
4-Mar-2009, 10:16
While glass plates seem like a "cool" way to go, considering their extreme expense from the sole producer of them (Slavich), wouldn't it be "just as good" to purchase Ortho film from Ilford for that vintage look?

BTW, Ilford still has plate coating equipment, but doesn't produce plates now.

Pete Watkins
4-Mar-2009, 11:37
Gene,
Ilford still have the capacity to produce POP paper, they won't do that either. Run by accountants.
Pete

Bruce Schultz
4-Mar-2009, 12:22
"the "look" of the plate coming out of the silver bath indicates the degree of sensitization. If it doesn't have a certain "look" then you put it back in for a period of time. (Of course you view under safelight conditions)"

No. If 3 minutes doesn't do the job, then the silver bath has a problem. It either needs testing for ph or it needs testing for specific gravity.

Ole Tjugen
4-Mar-2009, 12:25
Gene,
Ilford still have the capacity to produce POP paper, they won't do that either. Run by accountants.
Pete

No, they have the patents and an intent to produce POP paper. But the formula they have isn't compatible with their coating line, so there will be a delay while they work out a formula that works.

I believe the plate coating equipment was left behind when they moved the facilities to Mobberley in the 1970's.

Sevo
4-Mar-2009, 12:56
I believe the plate coating equipment was left behind when they moved the facilities to Mobberley in the 1970's.

That would be too early. IIRC they only quit holography plate production some years ago.

Sevo

babavaga
4-Mar-2009, 16:31
So, it is possible, that Ilford _will_ produce plates?

And is Slavich so expencive? I shouldn't pay for shipping (it is uneasy to send glass)... maybe it couses? What was the last price of plates while they were in stock?

Pete Watkins
5-Mar-2009, 00:51
Ole,
They've given up on POP. I spoke to their reps at Focus and they can't get consistancy. They said that they had spend enough and that they were offering the formula to The Chicago Albumen Company. They could make the stuff 80 years ago, but can't now. As I said, run by accountants!
Pete.

Martin Miksch
5-Mar-2009, 03:40
Found some links about DIY glass negatives, how about positives, does someone know about that?
Regards
Martin

dwross
5-Mar-2009, 07:43
Found some links about DIY glass negatives, how about positives, does someone know about that?
Regards
Martin

Glad you asked!

I've been working out the details of a recipe for dry plate positives. I'll be posting it on The Light Farm sometime within the next couple of months. The attached image is an example. It's a Whole Plate size (6.5 x 8.5), uncropped.

Gene McCluney
5-Mar-2009, 11:37
So, it is possible, that Ilford _will_ produce plates?

And is Slavich so expencive? I shouldn't pay for shipping (it is uneasy to send glass)... maybe it couses? What was the last price of plates while they were in stock?

I think the price for the Slavich plates was between $6 and $10 per plate. US.

Martin Miksch
5-Mar-2009, 16:01
"...the plate goes in the silver bath before it's developed and even before the exposure is made. The silver bath sensitizes the collodion-coated plate to light. The plate is brought out of the bath after about 3 minutes, then the exposure is made. ....

How much time I will get between bath and exposure?

Regards

Martin

Bruce Schultz
5-Mar-2009, 16:19
It depend on temperature and humidity, but the plate has to be exposed and developed within a few minutes. I try not to go more than about 5 minutes at most. That can be extended by using a wet towel on the back of the plate once it is placed in the holder, but it's a gamble how long you can go.

Martin Miksch
5-Mar-2009, 16:53
Hmm, so one cannot shoot outside studio?
Regards
Martin

dwross
5-Mar-2009, 19:51
I've never had to shoot with dry plates at -22 (thank goodness!), but I recently was out for the day in 10F weather. I treated the rig just like I do with film in cold weather. I did make extra sure that each holder was sealed against moisture (double ziploc freezer bags instead of my usual one - but that was probably overkill) and let the bags slowly come back up to room temperature before I opened them.
Worked just fine.

babavaga
6-Mar-2009, 01:26
I think the price for the Slavich plates was between $6 and $10 per plate. US.

I'm buying 6 plates 5x7 for $32, so it's ~$5 per plate. But Slavich is situated in Pereslavl Zalesski, wich is more then 200km far from moscow, so + petrol.


Anyone with experience using them in cold weather care to chime in?

Slavich plates becomes ISO 30-40 at -35 Celsius (-31F)... but still works fine. It is not mine expirience, but I've seen shots...