Humbling Experiences

[Kirk Gittings]

IME there is nothing quite as humbling as having to photograph the exact same subject as a famous photographer. Well after I was established as an architectural photographer I had couple of very humbling experiences. Twice I have had to photograph the same building as Nick Merrick of Hedrich Blessing. Once I had to do some additional photography on a bank that he had previously photographed and once it was the other way around. In both cases I found his creativity and technical mastery a real humbling educational experience. Anyone have a similar experience?

[John Cahill]

I tried to photograph a green pepper in an old aluminum reflector. It didn't turn out like E. Weston's Pepper Nr. 30.

[Bruce M. Herman]

My fiance went with me to Portage LAke here in AK one spring during break up. She brought only an HP point and shot digital camera while I had my 4x5. It was cold and damp, and she doesn't deal with those conditions. I was doing my thing while she sat patiently in the car. Suddenly she hopped out, took a couple of quick snap shots (I think that this is how the name came to be), and then got back in. Later, after my film was developed, I showed her what I had done. But when I saw her photo, I felt like a beginner. Luck, fresh eyes, or just more natural talent...

[aphexafx]

Lol, these stories are good for the soul. I want to read more!

I am studying, among others, Abelardo Morell. His seemingly simple shot of a white porcelain container on a table corner is famous and very inspiring, so I tried to do something similar. I tried for an entire day. Let me just say that I am embarrassed and I hope the guys where I get my film processes didn't look too hard.

It really puts you in your place. You've got to be determined. ;)

I gave up, "some other day" I told myself...

Ref: http://www.abelardomorell.net/books/books_m01.html


Here is a sub-question: Do you believe that you have to be a natural a specific subject, or do you believe that hard work, determination, and plenty of self-loathing will probably get you there someday?

[GPS]

IME there is nothing quite as humbling as having to photograph the exact same subject as a famous photographer.

Humbling? Humbling?? I couldn't care less if I take pictures of a place that a famous(?) "somebody who" took before me. I take pictures of what I see, he took pictures of what he saw. I find your "humbling experience" genuinely phony.

[aphexafx]

^ I think the context of "I can do it my way" vs. "he/she did it their way" is fully understood by everyone.

I believe the question is concerning an appreciation for very good work, in your own opinion, and comparing your similar work to something you consider to be very well done.

If you are of the opinion that anything you do your way is then equal (aesthetically, etc.) to that done by someone whom you consider a master, automatically, you are perhaps cutting yourself short (in THIS context, not of you own vision, which I agree, is yours to explore and appreciate).

Obviously there is nothing wrong with appreciating a photograph that is well done in your opinion, and comparing to it your attempt at the same subject.

Otherwise there would be no point in adopting an opinion about any particular photograph of said subject, and there would be no point in accepting another's work with said subject as inspiring (to you). It's a very large part of learning, at least for me.

[eddie]

can we see the said photos side by side? then we could be the judge of what is "better".

sometimes the actual photographer is more critical than all others.

[Steve M Hostetter]

Speaking as a house carpenter and framer I can honestly say I am humbled on a daily basis.. I used to think that northerners were the builders of the greatest cities and that we were far more superior and advanced with our buildings and architecture in general then the southern states.. I used to think the only architecture in the south could easily be seen in the movie Deliverance. A lean-to over an old rotted porch complete with a inbread playing a banjo..
That is untill I traveled to places like Charleston S.C. and Savannah GA.. A very eye opening experiance and I fell in love with the place and it's ppl right off..

[Allen in Montreal]

I have had a few humbling experinces when shooting assignments with some pretty big photojournalists, and then seeing their work in print, an image I never even saw while on assignment.

But perhaps one of the most awkward assignments, was to shoot Annie Leibovitz.
And it started off horribly when the writer I was with spoke down to her and pissed her off from the get go. She was fine, but the entire shoot felt awkward and I moth balled all the images from the intended shoot and used a frame I grab shooting from the hip of her as she quickly whipped out a Contax T2 and took my picture as I packed my gear at the end of the shoot.

[Henry Suryo]

About 5 years ago, I was travelling through Pennsylvania and photographed the Easton, PA/Phillipsburg, NJ bridge that Walker Evans shot in 1935 from roughly the same vantage point. What is humbling is that I didn't know it at the time. I was vaguely aware of Evans' photo and I remembered it being in NJ somewhere. Evans had titled it Phillipsburg, NJ (where his camera was pointing) and since I was on the Easton, PA side (where our cameras were standing, oddly enough both 8x10 Deardorffs), it didn't click to me at the time that they were the same bridge. I recall having a strange sense of familiarity though when I was photographing it so after I got back and developed my negative, I looked up Evans image in one of his monographs and well, much to my amusement, it is the same bridge. We were probably standing on the same projecting platform next to the bridge (at a different time of the year obviously), and his camera was pointing more to the right of the bridge with the 19" cell of his Protar, I believe, while mine more directly towards the bridge with a 10" lens. The bridge had not changed very much except for the pedestrian railing it seems.

[bspeed]

Bruce, I am afraid your post will shut down the LF industry :D

Similar situation has happed with my Wife and her Nikon P&S :rolleyes:



My fiance went with me to Portage LAke here in AK one spring during break up. She brought only an HP point and shot digital camera while I had my 4x5. It was cold and damp, and she doesn't deal with those conditions. I was doing my thing while she sat patiently in the car. Suddenly she hopped out, took a couple of quick snap shots (I think that this is how the name came to be), and then got back in. Later, after my film was developed, I showed her what I had done. But when I saw her photo, I felt like a beginner. Luck, fresh eyes, or just more natural talent...

[Steve M Hostetter]

About 5 years ago, I was travelling through Pennsylvania and photographed the Easton, PA/Phillipsburg, NJ bridge that Walker Evans shot in 1935 from roughly the same vantage point. What is humbling is that I didn't know it at the time. I was vaguely aware of Evans' photo and I remembered it being in NJ somewhere. Evans had titled it Phillipsburg, NJ (where his camera was pointing) and since I was on the Easton, PA side (where our cameras were standing, oddly enough both 8x10 Deardorffs), it didn't click to me at the time that they were the same bridge. I recall having a strange sense of familiarity though when I was photographing it so after I got back and developed my negative, I looked up Evans image in one of his monographs and well, much to my amusement, it is the same bridge. We were probably standing on the same projecting platform next to the bridge (at a different time of the year obviously), and his camera was pointing more to the right of the bridge with the 19" cell of his Protar, I believe, while mine more directly towards the bridge with a 10" lens. The bridge had not changed very much except for the pedestrian railing it seems. Henry,, and you might well have seen the same shot if the trees hadn't taken over

[JBrunner]

Once in a great while I more or less duplicate a photograph I admire on purpose. I never show these to people or publish them, because they are a personal exercise. It is usually an enlightening experience as I tend to learn things about the photographer that aren't "common" knowledge. More than I might get from studying the photograph alone. I don't know that I have seen farther, but I have tried to climb on the shoulder of giants, or at least tried look over them.

Although Kirk says he is humbled, what remarkable opportunities to be afforded to him.

[Henry Suryo]

My academic and professional background is architecture, and I would be humbled and consider myself very fortunate if I can travel and rephotograph some of the buildings Hedrich Blessing's done in the last 80 years. Even if I can't photograph, just to experience first hand some of the architecture in their oeuvre would be a blessing (pun)...

[Ralph Barker]

I understand what you mean, Kirk. I don't "run" within art circles, however, so I don't have much occasion to bump into people who have photographed the same subjects with greater skill. I know that they are out there, however, so I remain humbled at all times.

Still, I think my photographs of dead Civil War soldiers were actually better than Brady's. ;)

[Brian Ellis]

Here's an opposite - "unhumbling" - experience. About ten years ago I spent half a day photographing in Bodie with my 4x5. I made about 15 exposures, one of which included part of the porch, steps, and window of an old residence on the left and part of the porch, wall and roof of the adjacent residence on the right, at about a 45 degree angle to the two buildings. Nothing any more special about these two buildings than any of the other great old buildings in Bodie, I just liked the juxtaposition of the parts of the two buildings that I included in the photograph. I liked it well enough to make an 8x10 print that I put in an album and didn't think much more about it. A few years later I saw one of George Tice's books that included some Bodie photographs and lo and behold there was my Bodie porch photograph. It wasn't an exact duplicate but it was about 95% the same photograph. A really amazing coincidence because there wasn't anything special about the scene, nothing obvious that would cause a photographer to make that particular photograph out of the millions of others that could be made in Bodie.

Unfortunately I've had many more humbling experiences than that unhumbling one. I don't recall any that involved famous photographers but I've often gone on a photography trip with a friend who's an excellent photographer. We compare photographs later and I've often seen his photographs of the same general subject as mine and thought "damn, why didn't I see that?" But he at least he was using a 4x5 camera, so it wasn't my wife who upstaged me with a point and shoot. : - )

[John Bowen]

As I read this thread it brought back a "De Ja Vu" and then I got to Brian Ellis' post.

I too spent a few hours photographing in Bodie way back in 1988. I distinctly remember photographing the Ranger's residence with the church behind and to the right of the residence. There was a singular line of clouds that I had positioned in an interesting composition between the two buildings roof lines. I probabaly made around 10 negatives, each about 3-4 minutes apart as the clouds passed by. I liked this image well enough to make a fine print and it still hangs in my office. About 4 months ago, my wife dragged me to the library as she picked out some books. I went straight to the photo section and decided to check out a George Tice photography book. Imagine my surprise when I saw George's very, VERY similar Bodie image. I had never seen George Tice's images before, but I felt my image stood up very well against his.

Small world.....

[Vaughn]

I have photographed quite a bit in Yosemite...enough said...:o

Vaughn

PS...not enough said. I made a photograph near the Park entrance along the Merced River. Wonderful early morning sunlight reflecting onto the scene from the side of the Valley. it was accepted into the Yosemite Renaissance Competition/Show and was used in some PR stuff for the show. Then I looked at Sexon's Tree book -- and there was (almost) the same shot. I like mine much better, but that does not mean mine was the better image.

Vaughn

[Steve M Hostetter]

Ok here is my version of Acadia Maine and Ed Weston's version of the same scene..

I found Ed's version after several years of taking mine.. In fact it's a picture from a book,, page 279 of Edward Weston A Photographer's love of life ,,,, picture title is Acadia 1941 mine was taken around 2000.. taken w/ 8x10 Sinar 210mm 5.6XL on Fujichrome

[Kirk Gittings]

I understand what you mean, Kirk. I don't "run" within art circles, however, so I don't have much occasion to bump into people who have photographed the same subjects with greater skill. I know that they are out there, however, so I remain humbled at all times.

Just to be clear, these weren't art projects but commercial architectural projects for an architect client here in Albuquerque, an elementary school and a bank. Merrick lives not too far from here in Galisteo and does the occasional job in ABQ. The first job, the bank, I knew I was shooting after him and aware of what he had already done. I was to fill in some gaps in the coverage for a design competition. The second one he was shooting after me for a national magazine submission and I only became aware of his images a few days ago from the architects website. Hence the post.

[Bill_1856]

...I... photographed the Easton, PA/Phillipsburg, NJ bridge that Walker Evans shot in 1935 from roughly the same vantage point.

Henry, I been right there in those same tripod holes. In a sense you were lucky because you didn't have WE's image in your mind to pre-condition your viewpoint and expectations, while I did.
Nonetheless, both of those images are far better than any of the dozen or so that I shot (and never even bothered to print).
Yours, incidentally, is excellent IMO. But you're right -- it ain't Walker Evans!

[Merg Ross]

I am not sure the role humility may have played in my experience, but it does have to do with architectural photography!

Years ago, about forty, I was asked by a very successful architectural firm in San Francisco to re-photograph one of their buildings. They had originally hired Morley Baer, and were not happy with the results. Morley, at the time, was the number one architectural photographer in the Bay Area. His day rate was $600, which then was a hefty fee. Awkwardly for me, Morley was my mentor and friend.

Before committing to a re-shoot, I scouted the building and saw pretty much what Morley saw, an apartment building cascading down a hillside. It was rather uninteresting from ground level. The only way I could conceive to improve on what Morley had done was to photograph the building from the air.

I rented a plane (and a pilot) and took some aerial shots which were complemented with Morely's work and my ground shots. The project later won an AIA award.

[paulr]

I think opportunities like this are more educational than humbling. It's a direct challenge to see something the way you see it, rather than filtered through someone else's vision.

Part of this is letting go of the idea that it's a contest. Yeah, Weston was a genius, and his vision was forcefull enough to influence ideas about bell peppers for more than one generation.

But it should still be possible to see a bell pepper in the context of your own world and your own life and your own feelings about things. And this should show up in any picture you make. The result may not be a timeless icon, but it will be yours.

The commercial context adds a couple of twists. For one thing, it means you didn't choose the challenge ... it got handed to you. And for another, you need to get clarity about why you're being asked to do the shoot. Who is the audience? Will they be aware of the Great Master's earlier pictures? If not, you might end up concluding, uncomfortably, that the best approach is a really unoriginal one ...

[Gordon Moat]

In 2007 I was contacting about exhibiting some of my Polaroid manipulations as part of a touring exhibit. At first it seemed a little dubious about the conditions, and whether the organizers could pull it off at all. After much back and forth messages, some waiting, and then sending images, the touring Expo Polaroid happened at the beginning of 2008. More surprising was that I was one of only 34 Polaroid artists world wide to be part of this exhibit. Then another surprise as the companion book for the exhibit ended up in the permanent collection of the Niepce Museum.

In all it was a very humbling experience. On top of that, one of my images from that was selected for another book, and ended up being printed full page size. So a little sideline art endeavor not connected to my commercial work ended up surprising me on so many levels.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

[rvhalejr]

My opinion is no more relevant than a bunch of koala_bears.,.

That being said, "Famous" architectural photography can be very boring if not suffocating, and when the lines are not kept straight I start to feel dizzy.

Your well trained eye undoubtedly sees more than we do in famous works. However, IMHO if anyone ought to be humble it is they, perhaps even more so.

Your work left a favorable impression on the wife who rarely compliments any type of photography (I tend to not be able to walk past a big AA poster, she justs blows right on by) much less thumb trough Architectural Digest.

Simply put, your work is photographically interesting (in a broader sense) and scary good w.r.t. architecture.

[John Hennessy]

This observation is more along the lines of great(?) minds thinking alike. Many times making landscapes I have set up my camera on a worthy scene and then noticed trampled vegetation all around clearly indicating that I was not the first one to notice what thought was so subtle and original. Of course I never get to see the work of the preceding photographers, so its hard to discern sometimes whether I am actually about recreate a cliche or if this something worthwhile in front of after all.

[Kirk Gittings]

Humbling? Humbling?? I couldn't care less if I take pictures of a place that a famous(?) "somebody who" took before me. I take pictures of what I see, he took pictures of what he saw. I find your "humbling experience" genuinely phony.

Frankly, I find your response a little overwrought and odd. Have you never worked under an art director or from a shot list? Do you think every art director sends you out to just "do your thing"? I have to fulfill my clients documentation needs and try and do something creative, original and stunning every time I go out, even if it is crappy architecture. This is no easy task (and frankly I am not always up to the challenge) especially when you are following on the heals of another very competent photographer.

Great story and creative solution, Merg.

[Allen in Montreal]

........

Years ago, about forty, I was asked by a very successful architectural firm in San Francisco to re-photograph one of their buildings. They had originally hired Morley Baer, and were not happy with the results. Morley, at the time, was the number one architectural photographer in the Bay Area. His day rate was $600, which then was a hefty fee. Awkwardly for me, Morley was my mentor and friend.........

I rented a plane (and a pilot) and took some aerial shots which were complemented with Morely's work and my ground shots. The project later won an AIA award.

What a great approach, brilliant.

[Lenny Eiger]

This observation is more along the lines of great(?) minds thinking alike. Many times making landscapes I have set up my camera on a worthy scene -

Before I moved out to CA from NY, in '84, I purchased a few vintage photos from a dealer friend in NYC. There were two William Henry Jacksons -

A few years later I was in Yellowstone and I climbed over the edge of the fence trying to keep people from dropping a thousand feet or so. I thought it was cool - that I was going to take a photo that others wouldn't. I got the shot lined up on the ground glass and as I looked at it I thought it was kind of familiar. With a start I realized not only did I know this image but I had it on my wall at home!

Needless to say, I packed up my gear and moved on.

Lenny

[GPS]

IME there is nothing quite as humbling as having to photograph the exact same subject as a famous photographer. Well after I was established as an architectural photographer I had couple of very humbling experiences. Twice I have had to photograph the same building as Nick Merrick of Hedrich Blessing.
...


...
I have to fulfill my clients documentation needs and try and do something creative, original and stunning every time I go out, even if it is crappy architecture. This is no easy task (and frankly I am not always up to the challenge) especially when you are following on the heals of another very competent photographer.

...

Kirk, decide for yourself what is that humbling experience for you - if it is the fact that you take a picture of a subject already photographed by a famous photographer or just the fact that you're "not always up to the challenge" of your profession.
Then ask your question.

[Richard M. Coda]

On my first trip to Yosemite I hiked up the switchbacks to the true Inspiration Point to get the classic Ansel shot. Although mine was in September and the sky was crystal clear I got an even greater appreciation for what Ansel did.

Since then I have taken photos, not of the exact same location, but maybe the same "idea" or "situation" as some of the masters have taken before me. In the past year or so I have been thinking a lot about my "influences"... looking at my photographs and asking "why" did I make that image. Many times it comes down to a subliminal visual "note"... seeing combinations of shapes, tones or lines that have reminded me that I have seen them somewhere before.

One in particular is attached below. My image is on Rt. 68 in Salinas, CA, just after you make that last weird left turn to head on in to Monterey. Also attached is Walker Evans "Cherokee Parts Store", which I now consider the influence for this image.

I belong to a group here in Phoenix, Imageworks, which is strictly LF. We have meetings once a month consisting of a business meeting, a "program" and then scheduled member print showings. The program could be anything... a [photography] movie, a member "retrospective", a demonstration, etc. We are now trying to come up with more varied programs. One we are doing in April is "Influences" where several of us will bring in prints and the influential images that prompted us to make them.

[Kirk Gittings]

Kirk, decide for yourself what is that humbling experience for you - if it is the fact that you take a picture of a subject already photographed by a famous photographer or just the fact that you're "not always up to the challenge" of your profession.
Then ask your question.

Sorry, I still have no idea where you are going with this or why you needed to belittle the post as "phony".

[GPS]

Sorry, I still have no idea where you are going with this or why you needed to belittle the post as "phony".


Humbling? Humbling?? I couldn't care less if I take pictures of a place that a famous(?) "somebody who" took before me. I take pictures of what I see, he took pictures of what he saw. I find your "humbling experience" genuinely phony.

As you can see (?) I find phony your "humbling experience" , not your post. That makes a difference.

[Kirk Gittings]

Oh I get it. My experience was phony-not my post. That makes a big difference. Whatever.

[Drew Wiley]

I was at Bodie one morning, back when I was using a Sinar. Some "famous" photographer was there doing a workshop. Have no idea who he was. But he simply told his students to follow me around and copy whatever I was doing, while he wandered off to shoot what he wanted!

[Michael Mutmansky]

Kirk,

hum·ble (hmbl)
adj. hum·bler, hum·blest

1. Marked by meekness or modesty in behavior, attitude, or spirit; not arrogant or prideful.
2. ...
3. ...
tr.v. hum·bled, hum·bling, hum·bles
1. ...
2. To cause to be meek or modest in spirit.
3. ...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apparently, there are some people who are incapable of understanding that humility in spirit and action are often considered meritiorius.

I have often felt what I would have described as a deferential reverence when shooting in a place that has produced an iconic photograph (White House Ruin anyone?), or in a location where I've seen the work of others whom I respect greatly. If I am conscious of the work that others have done, I find myself careful to ensure that the work I am doing is an attempt to intrepret it in my style.

It's those times that I think I am the most conscious about my photography, and the least natural in my image making. It's the icons that bring that out; a well photographed location doesn't do that as much as a place that will inevitably be compared to the iconic image.

I think that as long as we feel that we don't know it all, or that there is still much to learn from others with respect to photography and seeing, it is hard to not have some humility in these situations.

This is part of why I feel that for me, the most rewarding photographic experiences are often made when working over a photographic subject/location with others whom I truly respect and enjoy being with. As I intrepret a location and see how others whom I respect intrepret the same location, during the same lighting and other conditions, I feel humbled and enriched. When I see their final results (prints), I am often feel very humbled, and ultimately very appreciative that I was nearby when they began the creative process. I feel there is so much to learn from these experiences.


---Michael