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View Full Version : Iris Universal Lens Mounts - who, where?



goamules
14-Feb-2009, 07:30
I have an iris lens mount that I love, and would like to know who made them? About when and where? Mine has no marks that I can find, but most of them look very similar, right down to the crinkle black finish. I'd like to know who and when they were made, and why they stopped. Does anyone know the history?

Thanks,
Garrett

eddie
14-Feb-2009, 07:45
the iris mount that is pictured in your 12 inch wolly ad is made in germany. i do not know the year.

i have one that was made in Italy. this one is far superior to the german one. the locking knob on the german clamps wear out and fail to work properly after time. it works on an eccentric. i am surprised that the germans made it like that. the italian one is much better.....but i have never seen another like it......

i will post a photo of my clamp ASAP....i have a guest sleeping in the toy room......eeeerrrrr! i mean guest room.

eddie

got it.

Pete Roody
14-Feb-2009, 08:12
maybe someone :) could copy this design and sell it. doesn't look that complicated to make.


the iris mount that is pictured in your 12 inch wolly ad is made in germany. i do not know the year.

i have one that was made in Italy. this one is far superior to the german one. the locking knob on the german clamps wear out and fail to work properly after time. it works on an eccentric. i am surprised that the germans made it like that. the italian one is much better.....but i have never seen another like it......

i will post a photo of my clamp ASAP....i have a guest sleeping in the toy room......eeeerrrrr! i mean guest room.

eddie

got it.

Ernest Purdum
14-Feb-2009, 09:57
Pete, as one who used to be in the business of making things our of metal, I wish I could agree that these would be easy to make, but I can't. The killer would be that different sizes are needed.

I don't think it is possible to identify the origin of an unmarked unit. As Eddie mentioned, Germany and particularly Italy were source countries. I think I remember one from France, also. They were also sold in Britain and the United States as though they originated there, but I think it likely that at least some of these came from Italy or Germany.

eddie
14-Feb-2009, 10:00
Pete, as one who used to be in the business of making things our of metal, I wish I could agree that these would be easy to make, but I can't. The killer would be that different sizes are needed.

I don't think it is possible to identify the origin of an unmarked unit. As Eddie mentioned, Germany and particularly Italy were source countries. I think I remember one from France, also. They were also sold in Britain and the United States as though they originated there, but I think it likely that at least some of these came from Italy or Germany.

but what is you only made the one size? the size that fits on a 6x6 board would be good? what would you guess the wholesale build cost might be for the unit i showed?

Wimpler
14-Feb-2009, 13:56
Eddie I have an identical one.

Paul Ewins
14-Feb-2009, 15:45
Even with just one size it looks expensive to make:
20 iris leaves with two pins attached per leaf.
1 cast and/or machined base with 20 holes drilled and 20 grooves machined in.
1 machined closing gear with 20 slots machined and teeth around one edge
1 machined top with 20 holes drilled.
1 closing gear with knob attached
1 tightening mechanism with knob attached

And that is probably simplifying it a bit. I'm not a machinist so I'm guessing that a lot of it could be done in a couple of runs on a CNC machine, but surely the leaves would have been stamped from sheets (big, expensive die) and you still need to attach the pins to them.

The economics might work when you are selling thousands, possibly hundreds, but I don't think the market is that big. Without going into it too far, the current sales might be one a week with a consequent price of around $300 for the larger size. If they were $200 then more might be sold but I still don't know that it would be enough.

I belong to a car club that caters to a rare Australian made car. From time to time we will get particular parts remade. The club contacts anyone likely to be interested to gauge actual demand. Then we work out the selling price based on a single batch that will satisfy the predicted demand. We go back to the people who expressed interest and get firm orders and deposits. Usually a few drop out and a few more are picked up and the club may hold a few extras as stock and the batch is done. With all the current and near future demand soaked up we may not do another batch for many years.

This single batch approach may work out but would require a retailer or manufacturer to underwrite it given that you are dealing with an international market. The big unknown is the demand in the Chinese market which might be enough to make it feasible.

seawolf66
14-Feb-2009, 20:25
Heck A CNC machine should be able to handle that problem !

goamules
15-Feb-2009, 07:33
Thanks all, the reason I was asking was I'm gathering preliminary data for possible manufacturing. I didn't realize there was an Italian make too. I need another sample because I am getting a mfg cost analysis done, as I have some overseas contacts that may be able to mfg them. So far, the problem seems to be scale, the mfg's want an order of as many as 1000. But even if I got just 500, I'd be stuck with about 450 of them!

Paul's idea of placing orders with deposit before mfg might work. I'm on a guitar board and they did just that, setting up a special guitar just for forum members. Developing....

Sevo
15-Feb-2009, 07:59
Count me in for one to three, depending on available sizes and price.

Sevo

Pete Roody
15-Feb-2009, 08:40
Thanks all, the reason I was asking was I'm gathering preliminary data for possible manufacturing. I didn't realize there was an Italian make too. I need another sample because I am getting a mfg cost analysis done, as I have some overseas contacts that may be able to mfg them. So far, the problem seems to be scale, the mfg's want an order of as many as 1000. But even if I got just 500, I'd be stuck with about 450 of them!

Paul's idea of placing orders with deposit before mfg might work. I'm on a guitar board and they did just that, setting up a special guitar just for forum members. Developing....

i have a few of these and the design that eddie shows is the simplest. well worth looking into imho.

Gene McCluney
15-Feb-2009, 09:29
There is obviously a market for these that is greater than the supply of used ones. I think particularly one that is bigger than the average one would be very desirable for those that like to shoot with 19th century lenses. I have many lenses that will not fit in my "more-or-less" standard size iris mount.

Ernest Purdum
15-Feb-2009, 09:37
Should anyone proceed on making these, I have a suggestion. Keep the opening and locking controls protruding as little as possible. This would allow holding some lenses in shutters that can't be done on most of the existing designs.

ljsegil
15-Feb-2009, 10:42
Perhaps two, one to fit a 4x4" board for smaller lenses and a second for 6x6" honkers.
LJS

Jeff Bannow
15-Feb-2009, 13:03
Perhaps two, one to fit a 4x4" board for smaller lenses and a second for 6x6" honkers.
LJS

I would be interested in one of both if available.

Ash
15-Feb-2009, 13:46
All depends on price. If it costs more than an extortionate vintage piece, then I don't want one, if they are reasonable price then I'd probably want at least two.

eddie
15-Feb-2009, 14:10
if produced i am going to guess they will sell at about $400, possibly more. i am thinking the mid sized 3.5-4 inch opening. more for bigger sizes. i ma willing to guess that bigger sizes will have less demand as they will not fit on "small" (less than 6x6) boards.

i would guess that anything new would never be cheaper than the used market.....why? it has been shown that peopel are willing to pay 350+.

eddie

eddie
15-Feb-2009, 14:48
HURRY fee bay has one for $300 BIN!

QUICK!

Gene McCluney
15-Feb-2009, 14:56
Well, we can still find used the medium size..what I want is one to fit the 6" to 8" lensboard to take the big old Petzvals.

eddie
15-Feb-2009, 16:08
Well, we can still find used the medium size..what I want is one to fit the 6" to 8" lensboard to take the big old Petzvals.

i agree. but from a manufacturing stand point i would guess the demand for something like that to be fairly small. most people do not have cameras that can handle 8x8 and 9x9 boards and these 8x10+ petzvals. that lack of demand may cause the price to go up to cover the cost of selling less.

remember if these big babies get too expensive we could all just have flanges made for our big brass i mean how many do "you" really have? if the new big universal irises were $600+ that is a lot of flanges that could be made. me personally i only need one or two flanges for my big guys......so it would be better if i just had them made. i mean do not get me wrong....it would be nice not to have t remove the flange from one board and put it on another (i have an 8x8 dorff and a 9x9 century that can handle the biggies). but for 600-700 dollars i can switch the flanges for several years before it cuts into my labor fees.....

FWIW.

eddie

Paul Ewins
15-Feb-2009, 17:50
A 4" diameter and a 6" diameter are the obvious choices. Your 4" needs to mount properly on a Speed Graphic board and a Technika board. With an SG board you could have a bolt hole on each corner and that would be fine, but would that work on a Technika board?

It looks like a 6" diameter version would just sneak on to a Sinar Board and a Cambo board using bolt holes in each corner so a regular flat 6" board should be just fine.

Hmmm, wonder if you could make one that screws into the front of a Copal 3? Although if I'm going to get fanciful it would be better to ask for one integrated with a remanufactured Ilex 5.

Gene McCluney
15-Feb-2009, 18:41
i agree. but from a manufacturing stand point i would guess the demand for something like that to be fairly small. most people do not have cameras that can handle 8x8 and 9x9 boards and these 8x10+ petzvals. that lack of demand may cause the price to go up to cover the cost of selling less.

remember if these big babies get too expensive we could all just have flanges made for our big brass i mean how many do "you" really have? if the new big universal irises were $600+ that is a lot of flanges that could be made. me personally i only need one or two flanges for my big guys......so it would be better if i just had them made. i mean do not get me wrong....it would be nice not to have t remove the flange from one board and put it on another (i have an 8x8 dorff and a 9x9 century that can handle the biggies). but for 600-700 dollars i can switch the flanges for several years before it cuts into my labor fees.....

FWIW.


eddie

I have about six jumbo lenses I would like to mount. This is not only having flanges made, but lensboards and packard shutters for all of them. The expense mounts, and $600 for a "jumbo" iris mount would be a bargain, by comparison. Mount all my big berthas on One lensboard at will, using one big packard shutter.

goamules
15-Feb-2009, 19:51
This is all helpful discussion and I'm cogitating. I think I'm hearing the pricepoint too. One thing I've noticed with the big, heavy lenses, is I worry about how secure it is held in the iris. I mean, when you get to a 14 inch or larger petzval, it's probably best not to stick 5 lbs out in front of a flexible, spring steel iris. A flange for the giants is probably best.

On another question, which I'll start another tread about; thorton pickard shutters any good, compared to a packard?

Gene McCluney
15-Feb-2009, 20:07
On another question, which I'll start another tread about; thorton pickard shutters any good, compared to a packard?

Packards are still being made..super simple, last a lifetime.

BarryS
15-Feb-2009, 21:35
I have some friends that have had products manufactured in China and the cost can be fairly low if you keep things simple. I was thinking about the universal irises myself when I started seeing them sell for $350 and over. I also think versions to fit 4" and 6" lensboards would be the most popular, but I think the price point has got to be reasonable if you want to sell any quantity. As it is, this is a very small market, but if the price is $200 or below, you might be able to sell a reasonable number.

Jim Fitzgerald
16-Feb-2009, 08:55
I have some friends that have had products manufactured in China and the cost can be fairly low if you keep things simple. I was thinking about the universal irises myself when I started seeing them sell for $350 and over. I also think versions to fit 4" and 6" lensboards would be the most popular, but I think the price point has got to be reasonable if you want to sell any quantity. As it is, this is a very small market, but if the price is $200 or below, you might be able to sell a reasonable number.

I agree! I think that people get as much as the market will bear for these. If they were available at a reasonable price of 200 or less I think you would sell a lot of them. I know I could use two or three.

Jim

Joe Smigiel
17-Feb-2009, 19:21
Eddie,

I have a small iris mount that fits on a 4.5" Deardorff board. It was made by Caesar Mfg. Inc./ J. C. (or G?) Saltzman Inc. as the following picture shows:

http://my.net-link.net/BA/D5/jsmigiel/images/DIY/Packard.jpg

Len Middleton
17-Feb-2009, 20:49
Certainly the economics of a universal mount are there. When I enquired with the Canadian distributor for Rodenstock for a mounting flange for a 600mm Apo-Ronar CL, I was informed it was over C$100. So I considered myself lucky to get one for it and the another process lens for U$30 each.

Then if you put a Packard behind each lens, Joe's configuration above with a Packard and universal iris looks like the ideal solution. Not to mention the reduced amount of stuff to pack and transport.

And like many, I have been watching them, but $350 plus seems a little rich for me at this time.

My C$0.02 (current exchange rate is C$1 = U$0.79, so discount accordingly),

Len