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Leonard Alecu
12-Feb-2009, 13:39
C.P. Goerz Berlin serie III No 10 F=750m/m; No 83510
Doppel Anastigmat DRP No 74437

Any informationís about this lens?
Thank you,
Leonard Alecu

Toyon
12-Feb-2009, 15:16
Assuming that Goerz' American branch was manufacturing very similar Dagors you may find the attached useful. Your lens is probably equivalent to a #10.

Thanks to Seth Broder for the info.

lungovw
12-Feb-2009, 16:34
Case you haven't seen it already, check this out:

http://www.ronkleinphotos.com/Lawrence.html

It was done with a Dagor shorter than yours!!

Wagner Lungov

Kerik Kouklis
12-Feb-2009, 16:52
One of the rarest of the Dagors at 30" focal length. First one I've ever seen. Huge coverage!!! Is it for sale? :)

Nathan Potter
12-Feb-2009, 17:11
Double wow! 30 by 30 inch coverage at f/22. Next to the largest made in the series. Yes, is it for sale?

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

Henry Suryo
13-Feb-2009, 08:13
Before this thread, I thought the last two offerings on this list above were just a myth! If anyone shoots architecture and want extreme movements on a 20x24, this would be an awesome the lens to use. I'm not sure there's anyone currently shooting beyond 20x24 to really utilize this lens to its maximum potential. Does Doug Busch still have his 40x60 camera?

eddie
13-Feb-2009, 08:22
i actually got to hold one of these babies last year! it went big on e bay....i should have bought it that day i saw it....before it went to e bay! what was i thinking?!?!?!

rumored to have coverage to 1.5 meters!

Leonard Alecu
13-Feb-2009, 08:23
This lens is not for sell. I bought the lens to test it.
Thank you for all answers.


eddie, tacking in consideration that I bought the lens from eBay last year and such a lens don't appear on the market every year, probably this is the lens you are talking about.

Tracy Storer
13-Feb-2009, 09:57
I used to have a 30" Series IV, which is very similar in construction (6/2) and performance, but with a max aperture of f/11. I sold it to a friend, who later sold it to someone else.
I expect your lens is rather heavy....it will take a big camera to support it, but then, using it on anything BUT a big camera would be silly.
Congratulations on a rare acquisition!
Best,
Tracy

eddie
13-Feb-2009, 10:13
This lens is not for sell. I bought the lens to test it.
Thank you for all answers.


eddie, tacking in consideration that I bought the lens from eBay last year and such a lens don't appear on the market every year, probably this is the lens you are talking about.

i think it is the one. last feb. stardust something or other from NH was the seller? :)
look fore my finger prints.....

enjoy it.

eddie

Leonard Alecu
13-Feb-2009, 11:42
eddie,
searching in my emails I found this info: ebay auction: EARLY GOERZ 750mm DOPPEL ANASTIGMAT SER III BRASS LENS; seller:stardust06242; date: Thursday, February 21, 2008;


here another beautiful lens from my deep coffers:

Jim Galli
13-Feb-2009, 11:55
eddie,
searching in my emails I found this info: ebay auction: EARLY GOERZ 750mm DOPPEL ANASTIGMAT SER III BRASS LENS; seller:stardust06242; date: Thursday, February 21, 2008;


here another beautiful lens from my deep coffers:
That one seems to be a Protar VII construction which Krauss had rights for. 2 1025's would give you around 22-24 inch combined? Very pretty!

Leonard Alecu
13-Feb-2009, 13:40
Yes, have 24 inch.
On the cells is write " Lentille Anastigmat Zeiss 1:12,5 f=1050m/m BTE S.G.D.G. E.KRAUSS & Cie No 9601 /9602 Paris".
Here is page 34 from the "Carl Zeiss Jena - Photographic Objectives Palmos Cameras 1907" :

eddie
13-Feb-2009, 15:12
eddie,
searching in my emails I found this info: ebay auction: EARLY GOERZ 750mm DOPPEL ANASTIGMAT SER III BRASS LENS; seller:stardust06242; date: Thursday, February 21, 2008;


here another beautiful lens from my deep coffers:

cool! small world huh? have you gotten to shoot it? i think it is fun that some one on the forum got it. she was a beauty.

love the protar.

show us some pictures you shoot with it.

eddie

Leonard Alecu
14-Feb-2009, 01:49
To test the protar I can set up the Sinar P2 8x10 with a copal shutter but the 750 mm dagor need a new ULF camera.
Now I am involved in other project - a camera for another lens - apo artar / apo ronar 1200 mm and 1800mm. The 8x20 inch back will be profesionally craftsmade by Ebony from my specifications.
To have an idea look at the set up for 1200mm lens and 5x7 inch format. A new design with a better tripod and head are in construction now.

David A. Goldfarb
14-Feb-2009, 02:08
Impressive!

GPS
14-Feb-2009, 02:33
...
Now I am involved in other project - a camera for another lens - apo artar / apo ronar 1200 mm and 1800mm. The 8x20 inch back will be custom make by Ebony from my specifications.
To have an idea look at the set up for 1200mm lens and 5x7 inch format. A new design with a better tripod and head are in construction now.

Oh dear! I know you won't like it but anyway... The reason your 5x7 setup is such nonsense from the constructional point of view is that you strictly depend on factory made parts put together in a lego-like manner.
You would be much better off if you started to make your own construction right from under the standards. You could easily make the whole "camera" at least 50% less heavy and much more usable. Instead of the battery of bellows and their standards you'd be better off to make one long bellows with a simple device keeping the bellows sag in control, etc. etc.
Your construction might be impressive to an amateur but a constructor must have his eyeballs rolling...

Leonard Alecu
14-Feb-2009, 03:08
No problem, I like criticism, this always make thinks goes better. The camera posted in picture is only a start point. It helps to verify the vibrations of the rails. The construction is very sturdy.
As I mentioned before a new design will be used. No bellows, just a short one at the end of the camera.
8x20 will feet very well on the Sinar standards and you can keep the asymmetrical movements, but also the 12x20 format is an option.
About lego camera:
I am opened to any idea. Disassembled camera must feet into three boxes. The camera will be used in the mountains and must feet together with the tripod and head in an off-road car.
Only one tripod and one head must be used.
My Sachtler tripod together with the head weights 40 kilos. IMO is better that the camera is havy because that prevents the vibration caused by the wind....
Any suggestions are welcomed.

GPS how do you think that vibration can be cancel? At the end of 1,8m you have a lens which weights 8 kilos

GPS
14-Feb-2009, 04:35
No problem, I like criticism, this always make thinks goes better. The camera posted in picture is only a start point. It helps to verify the vibrations of the rails. The construction is very sturdy.
As I mentioned before a new design will be used. No bellows, just a short one at the end of the camera.
8x20 will feet very well on the Sinar standards and you can keep the asymmetrical movements, but also the 12x20 format is an option.
About lego camera:
I am opened to any idea. Dissembled camera must feet into three boxes. The camera will be used in the mountains and must feet together with the tripod and head in an off-road car.
Only one tripod and one head must be used.
My Sachtler tripod together with the head weights 40 kilos. IMO is better that the camera is havy because that prevents the vibration caused by the wind....
Any suggestions are welcomed.

GPS how do you think that vibrations can be cancel? At the end of 1,8m you have a lens which weights 8 kilos!!!!

Good! We have a start point.
A fixed construction, possibly - as you perhaps mention -in three (two only is also possible) parts put together on the spot is the natural solution. You avoid fluffy bellows and have the needed rigidity.
IMO the one tripod solution is a big mistake. Using 2 tripods, even lighter, is a MUCH better option - much more stability, much less final weight. The weight itself, especially put on one tripod only is no guarantee of stability, make no mistake on that point.
Using fixed, tunnel-like parts put together, standing on 2 tripods can make for a very stable camera even 1.8m long.
I have made several specialized cameras for high mountain photography, very stable even in storms (I take extreme meteorology pictures), I know the stuff. Constructing my own specialized cameras helps me to keep an edge over my fellow photographers in stock agencies business. And in Getty Images agency there is enough of rough fights for pictures, believe it.
If you're interested I would be glad to help you with some ideas. You can contact me with a PM. Cheers!

Leonard Alecu
14-Feb-2009, 04:52
My Sachtler tripod I want to use:

GPS
14-Feb-2009, 05:13
My Sachtler tripod I want to use:

Will lead you nowhere, from the technical point of view.

Leonard Alecu
14-Feb-2009, 05:49
Thank you for all GPS.
I will contact you. Also the 750mm Dagor need an ULF camera.
Yours,
LA

GPS
14-Feb-2009, 05:57
...
I will contact you. Also the 750mm Dagor need an ULF camera.
..

I thought so too... Would make a nice panoramic camera for me. But probably it likes too much your home...:) Cheers!

David A. Goldfarb
14-Feb-2009, 07:09
I agree that it makes more sense to use two tripods. Sinars were designed to handle long extensions on one rail in the studio. Occasionally I'll use lenses as long as 750mm on my 8x10" Sinar P, and what I do is use two tripods and two rail clamps, and I have a custom 40-inch bellows. I bought the camera from a food photography studio, which apparently needed this extra long bellows, and I suspect they used it in the same way, or possibly on a studio stand with the Sinar platform that allows for attachment of two rail clamps.

Pete Roody
14-Feb-2009, 08:28
You can find a picture of Rheinhart Wolf with his Sinar at the website below. He used long process lenses (1200mm) with a Norma on 2 tripods.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/3822805491/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link

eddie: you should have bought that 35" dagor! :)

Henry Suryo
14-Feb-2009, 08:49
If it's that extreme tele look you're after, then by all means. While your Sinar setup is indeed impressive, personally this would be a gluttony of punishment setting it up while at the same time chasing that elusive mountain light. But as long as you're having fun...

Nathan Potter
15-Feb-2009, 20:25
The trick with very long focal lengths is simply to keep the front and rear standards locked relative to each other with displacements between the two equal or less than the smallest Circle Of Confusion you want to achieve at best focus. That is a fairly formidable task by itself! Notice that if the locked condition is achieved then the only remaining issue is movement of the whole assembly yet a second fairly formidable achievement and again the image translation at the film plane needs to be limited to the smallest COC desired. With these two conditions met the true resolving quality of the lens can be achieved.

While I have never dealt with such demanding requirements I would guess that the rail as shown will flex to a significant degree even though clamped to auxilliary rails mimicking, in part, a truss structure (seems pretty impressive). I would also suspect there is enough flex in the standards attachment mechanism to cause slight differential movement. My inclination would be to use an optical bench arrangement where the standard rail is replaced with a larger diameter robust tube. I'd then make a new front and rear standard with appropriate attachment to the optical bench rail and also to which the original standards can be bolted. I might consider the whole thing be made of wood say the new rail of 100 X 100 cm. cross section of wood of the appropriate length. The standards also of wood. I did this once for some extreme macro closeup work.

Next task is to be sure the whole setup is stabile and here two tripods set low to the ground could help, but it's necessary to mitigate any possible movement from wind, tripod vibration resulting from wind, and any slow settling of the tripods over time. Again I might make a super robust tripod like support structure, (two of them) out of wood say 50 X 100 cm. (like US. 2 X 4s) in crossection and then place on stabile and unyielding ground.

Pete, Wolfs' images are really impressive with his 1200 mm. setup but I'm wondering if the image of his apparatus really shows his complete technique when taking the photographs. I've not seen the original photos.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.