uneven development in highlights 8x10 Tri-X

[andress007]

I developed my first sheets of 8x10 Tri-X. Totally 9 sheets, I did 2, 3, 4 sheets in batch, in trays with 3-4 minutes presoak, I tried XTOL (1:1) 7 minutes and I tried HC-110 4 minutes. I used night vision goggles and constantly interleave the sheets from bottom to the top.

I noticed uneven development in highlights (like stains?) only :confused: . Other parts of negs seems to be developed OK.

How to improve my development?

[ic-racer]

Looks like the film is not making initial contact with the developer in an even manner. This should be eliminated with the water pre-soak. Even so, how are you adding each sheet to the developer? A quick plunge for each individual sheet, or putting the whole stack in at once?

[CG]

It's kind of a stretch here, but to my eye, there's a consistency in the shape of the marks - they seem roughly the same in all three images - they look vaguely hand-like - they are subtle, but... Is there any chance they are exactly that, marks from your hands? Wet hands on dry film?

[andress007]

Looks like the film is not making initial contact with the developer in an even manner. This should be eliminated with the water pre-soak. Even so, how are you adding each sheet to the developer? A quick plunge for each individual sheet, or putting the whole stack in at once?

I also think that this could be an issue with uneven initial contact. I added each sheet separately to the developer after 3-4 minutes in presoak , "inserting" long side first at about 45 degrees and let film drop in to developer.

Strange that only highlights are affected, no dark and midrange tones have this issue. Or only highlights are most sensitive part to initial contact with developer?

[andress007]

It's kind of a stretch here, but to my eye, there's a consistency in the shape of the marks - they seem roughly the same in all three images - they look vaguely hand-like - they are subtle, but... Is there any chance they are exactly that, marks from your hands? Wet hands on dry film?

Actually this uneven "stains" are completely different in shape and position. Only in common that they are always in highlights.

I use gloves to develop, and unload from holders touching only rim of the film by bare fingers. I constantly change the place where I grab the sheets during developing: top, middle and bottom of long side.

[Gem Singer]

I have experienced the same problem with other brands of film and developers when I started to develop 8X10 sheets in trays. Appears to be bromide streaking and surge marks.

Occurred when i used 8X10 trays for developing 8X10 film. Also, when I interleaved the film in only one direction.

I switched to 10X12 trays and began to alternate between vertical and horizontal interleaving. I also pre-soaked for at least two minutes, agitated the film continuously for the first thirty seconds, then interleaved through the stack once each minute until the time expired. That technique solved my problem.

As long as I am careful not to scratch the film, it doesn't seem to matter whether the emulsion side is facing up, or down.

[Bruce Watson]

I have experienced the same problem with other brands of film and developers when I started to develop 8X10 sheets in trays. Appears to be bromide streaking and surge marks.

I'll second that. Looks like an agitation problem. In my experience most agitation problems are due to too little agitation, especially early in the cycle. Developer exhausts surprisingly quickly early on, particularly in the higher density areas, simply because there's so much work for it to do there.

[andress007]

I have experienced the same problem with other brands of film and developers when I started to develop 8X10 sheets in trays. Appears to be bromide streaking and surge marks.

Occurred when i used 8X10 trays for developing 8X10 film. Also, when I interleaved the film in only one direction.

I switched to 10X12 trays and began to alternate between vertical and horizontal interleaving. I also pre-soaked for at least two minutes, agitated the film continuously for the first thirty seconds, then interleaved through the stack once each minute until the time expired. That technique solved my problem.

As long as I am careful not to scratch the film, it doesn't seem to matter whether the emulsion side is facing up, or down.

I use 11x14 trays. Once I tried to change vertical/horizontal but got scratches. I'll try again more carefully. Thank you.

[Rick Floyd]

I think you were more than careful enough in your developer agitation. I've seen similar odd shapes or even repetitive lines caused by a weak fixer in tri-x developed in D-76. IMHO I think the culprit is too short a fix or too weak of a fix. I hope this helps.

RF

[Gem Singer]

If the film was under fixed. or the fixer was weak, the film would not have cleared completely. The problem would have shown up as a milky appearance to the negative and a blotchy appearance in the print.

That problem could have been solved by re-fixing the negative in fresh fixer.

Most problems with streaking and surge marks occur during the first minute of development. They easily be solved with careful agitation.

(See: Anchell and Troop --"The Film Development Cookbook").

[Nick Kanellos]

Hope you don't mind andress007, but I took the liberty to copy the images and boost the contrast to better show the streaking. The streaks seem to have extremely well defined boundaries. And there seem to be streaks overlaid with other streaks. Some streaks run the entire length of the negative (assuming that you've scanned the whole image).

I also vote for improper initial contact with developer. It could be that as you are adding each sheet to the stack, the sheet is settling on top of the previous one. As the sheets settle together, some areas have thin sheets of developer solution between them while other areas have the two sheets in direct contact, starving the emulsion of developer in that area. This might also explain the extremely well defined boundaries of the streaks since the sheets of film are either in contact or they are not.

Strange as it may sound (and this only an hypothesis) it might even be that the presoak is making matters worse if there is not enough time for the developer to displace the water before the next sheet is added on top. Furthermore,since the emulsion is already saturated with water, there is little or no diffusion of developer from the areas where there are gaps between the film sheets to the areas where the film sheets are in contact accounting for the well defined boundaries of the sheets.

Anyway, just a guess. Try leaving some time between the addition of each sheet and agitate continuously while you are adding them.

[andress007]

Nick, thank you, that's exactly what I'm planning to try.

[mandoman7]

A couple of points:
Uneven development is best seen in the zone VI or VII (skies) areas. Bright, clear skies present the biggest challenge for uneven development. Forested scenes are way more forgiving in that regard.

Secondly, I've not seen mention of whether you are handling the film with the emulsion up or down. This can be a concern as I believe there's a greater chance for problems with the emulsion up. When the emulsion is down, each successive sheet gets a full and sudden exposure to new developer, rather than a sloshing of developer from the sides to the middle. That rush of solution over the edges increases development in those areas. When you develop with tanks and film holders and agitate side to side to vigorously you will get streak marks around the sprockets, for example.

Before shooting important work, its a good idea to do a test to identify problems. Shoot an out-of-focus light-colored board or wall to give a zone VII tone evenly across the negative. Then develop and print and you will see if you are getting even development. I would do this before relying on any given method, but particularly with the commitment involved in shooting 8x10.

JY

[David Vickery]

I think that the biggest problem is the short development times. For roll film it is frequently a good idea to keep the development short--for a variety of reasons. For sheet film, especially 8x10 and larger in size, you need to give it plenty of time for the denser areas to develop fully and evenly. As does pre-soaking, the longer development times help even out the initial plunge into the developer. Seven minutes is probably okay if you do everything else right but four minutes is way too short.
In the cooler months I process in the eighteen to twenty minute range with brush agitation and in the summer I'll be processing in the twelve to fifteen minute range.