"vintage" crown graphic

[speedtrials]

I know there are more than a few posts linking to ridiculously overpriced items on _bay, but i had to ad my own cause this is probably the most expensive crown graphic I've ever seen:

http://cgi.ebay.com/GRAFLEX-CROWN-GRAPHIC-SPECIAL-135MM-CAMERA-VINTAGE_W0QQitemZ360128822901QQcmdZViewItemQQptZFilm_Cameras?hash=item360128822901&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A10|39%3A1|240%3A1318

hey its "vintage"

[Vick Vickery]

But you notice the great big goose egg under the number of bids! :)

[Frank Petronio]

i wonder how much the earlier owner pawned it for!?

[dazedgonebye]

Wow.
I think I'll let him sell mine next.

[Robbie Shymanski]

And it's in "good" condition!

[Kuzano]

Judging by the pictures... looks well worth the start price at least. It's vintage by the strictest rules and it's well within the range of collector. It will likely live out it's life in a glass front cabinet and the shutter and bellows will never be exercised again. There are probably a few buyers out there for this one.

The big mistake this auctions is the high start price to avoid the reserve system. Absolutely the best way to deter bidders and lose a potential sale. I don't have any doubt this camera would have sold with a $1.00 start and a reserve matching this starting price.
The Buy It Now is simple seduction. It works.

[Frank Petronio]

You're tripping, $699 is way too high for any Crown, unless it's the Queen's.

[IanG]

You're tripping, $699 is way too high for any Crown, unless it's the Queen's.

The Queen only uses Leica's :D

Even in the UK they don't usually sell for that much. But with the price rigging going on by trade sellers on Ebay they are creeping towards that staring figure.

Ian

[Michael Graves]

The Queen only uses Leica's :D

Even in the UK they don't usually sell for that much. But with the price rigging going on by trade sellers on Ebay they are creeping towards that staring figure.

Ian

Photo by Carol Graves

[Jim Rhoades]

Whenever I see greedy prices for so so equipment I put the seller on my do not buy list. Ever. That goes for mis-stated information too. The first seller to get on my list was CAMERA$. The list has grown since then.

[Joseph O'Neil]

It's not just ebay anymore, I think. A couple months ago there was a local classified ad for a guy selling some 4x5 gear. I phoned him, and he told me on the phone about his darkroom gear, and about 4 different 4x5 cameras he had so i said great, I could come over and take a look and may be do some horse trading.

Well I get there, and all of a sudden, oh no, all he wants to sell is a 4x5 monorail (in not so great shape) with a single lens included (standard Kodak 15omm, not even a WF ektar or something like that, also in not so great shape.)

he had NO interest in selling his other cameras or lenses. So I am sorta P'Od because I took time and gas to drive over, and all he wants to sell is this monorail. Now the price he wants for this junky monorail is - oh I forget, but it was about the same price if not more than what this dimwit on fleabay wants for his crown graphic.

I just looked at him and told him I wasn't interested. he actually ha d asort of a hurt look on his face, so I told him hey, I thought you had more to sell than just this, and for what it is worth, I can buy that exact same camera on-line for about a 1/3rd of the price you want. In fact, I have a good monorail in excellent condition that I paid less than half want he wants.

I very seldom answer local want ads for camera gear anymore, partly because of this past experience, but mostly because the stuff is way overpriced. For example, I'll see a used digital SLR that is "only a year old" and that the guy "paid over $1,000 for new", and now "only wants $750." Exact prices here, not making this up. So I look in the newspaper and there is an ad for the exact same camera, in stock, at a local camera store, brand new, now for $450.

I used to love fleabay when it first started, but now, IMO, it's a cesspool for the most part. By contrast, I have a couple of really nice, used packard shutters, a nice 8x10 camera, and few other goodies I have bought from the buy / sell section here. Knock wood, almost every sale or purchase I ahve had here has gone done pretty good.

[bigdog]

Geez, Guys. I don't want to go all "conservative" on you ;) but let the market work. No bids so far. If it does sell, then there was still only one dumb person in the transaction. The seller doesn't know what he is selling ("135mm" camera) so why should he know what it's worth. He just thinks it's an antique. Caveat Emptor.

[BrianShaw]

There is a Anniversary Graphic that has been on ebay for the past two years (at least) at an exceedingly high BIN price. If it ever sells, we know that there is only one desperate buyer and that the seller waited a long, long time to make that sale. The market works!

[Paul Kierstead]

Heh, I've been trying to buy a Polaroid 180 or 195 for ages on the 'bay, and the prices just keep rocketing up, with BIN prices now well over CAD$600 and selling prices of even "we have no idea if this works" models going well over $200. There seems to be some demand for this general class of camera. Sentiment, or maybe people trying to differentiate themselves from the pack, or maybe just an appreciation for analog. Dunno, but now I have to wait a lot longer...

[Gordon Moat]

I see these overpriced cameras all the time, and have to wonder if these guys actually make much from their efforts. Unless they have some special deal with EBAY, they are likely paying a ton of relisting fees.

[Joseph O'Neil]

Geez, Guys. I don't want to go all "conservative" on you ;) but let the market work. No bids so far. If it does sell, then there was still only one dumb person in the transaction. The seller doesn't know what he is selling ("135mm" camera) so why should he know what it's worth. He just thinks it's an antique. Caveat Emptor.

actually, I do consider myself "conservative", and IMO, when I see somebody selling an item or service that is way beyond any reasonable price, i fully consider it both my right and obligation under any free market to say "you are full of S**T." To me, that's part of how the free market works.
:)

[John Cahill]

I am wondering if there is some kind of tax dodge for which people use offers like this? There is (was) a guy out on the west coast who had an Agfa-Ansco 5x7, in so-so shape, for $1999.00. He must know that is more than four times what such a camera is worth. IIRC, he had other cameras for sale at equally inflated BIN prices. Bottom line: there must be some viable economic reason for doing this.

[Paul Kierstead]

Bottom line: there must be some viable economic reason for doing this.

If everything people did in business had viable economic reasons, there would be no where near the number of business failures that there are.....

[Kuzano]

You're tripping, $699 is way too high for any Crown, unless it's the Queen's.

While I disagreed with the posts prior to mine, I did so as a function of where I see pricing going on these types of things.

I used to be a car enthusiast for many years. Over the years, I was always an entry level player, buying cars and driving/restoring them. My biggest disappointment was always being priced out of a marque by market trends as regards rising prices due to "found" margues for investment.

I don't think in my post I stated that I agreed with the rising value of the Graflex camera's, because for the most part, there are too many of them surviving, both in collections and in use. However. that particular camera looked to be "top of the heap" and a survivor that creates false values in the minds of "ignorant" wannabe collectors. Kind of like the military Graflex kits that show up once in a while. Now there, I've seen Graflex camera's go over $1000, because some of those kits sat in warehouses for decades and were never issued to journalists in combat arenas, or otherwise.

But.... I was sorta tripping. I love it when so many jump on one of the vagaries of eBay... that being that it is creating false values, both high and low, by presenting all sorts of inventory to a vast audience who have no idea what they are looking at a large percentage of the time. Me, as well.

Innit Fun?

[IanG]

I am wondering if there is some kind of tax dodge for which people use offers like this? There is (was) a guy out on the west coast who had an Agfa-Ansco 5x7, in so-so shape, for $1999.00. He must know that is more than four times what such a camera is worth. IIRC, he had other cameras for sale at equally inflated BIN prices. Bottom line: there must be some viable economic reason for doing this.

There's someone out there now selling a 10x8 Agfa Ansco in a similar fashion, & for a similar price except the bellows are shot & the camera is in mediocre condition.

It's called price rigging. You get enough sellers posting high prices and gullible buyers will begin to buy driving prices up for those of us who are realists and that's sellers as well as buyers.

If this is the going rate (Buy It Now Price) for a good Crown Graphic then mine described as Used, but in excellent condition has shot up in value 7-fold in 2 or 3 years :D

Ian

[John Cahill]

It's called price rigging. You get enough sellers posting high prices and gullible buyers will begin to buy driving prices up for thoes of us who are realists and that's sellers as well as buyers.

Ian
*****
Ahh, then it's that simple. So the free market might not be free after all.
Thanks for explaining it to me.

[Dan Fromm]

It's called price rigging. You get enough sellers posting high prices and gullible buyers will begin to buy driving prices up for those of us who are realists and that's sellers as well as buyers.

Eh? Sounds more like not giving the goods away. Strong demand, for whatever reason, weak supply.

[mandoman7]

Apparently someone occasionally falls for it and buys one of the over priced items. It seems like ebay could do something like charge more for second listings so people would get real about the asking prices. It would be in their interest as BS runs everything into the ground eventually.

JY

[PenGun]

Igor has a nice selection. Prolly close to what they are worth maybe a little high.

http://www.igorcamera.com/graflex.htm

[IanG]

Eh? Sounds more like not giving the goods away. Strong demand, for whatever reason, weak supply.

Maybe, but the recent trend on ebay is away from private sellers and an increasing number of trade sellers, ebay stores etc, usually with high "Buy It Now" prices.

Previously supply & demand set the prices, now a growing number of trade sellers seem to be inflating prices substantially. There are still some fair trade sellers who ask realist prices which are closer to the prices fetched when similar items are auctioned privately. The situation seems to be worse with UK trade sellers.

Ebay as a whole seems to be driving the private sellers away from the site which ultimately is not so good for us as customers.

Ian

[Dan Fromm]

Maybe, but the recent trend on ebay is away from private sellers and an increasing number of trade sellers, ebay stores etc, usually with high "Buy It Now" prices.

Previously supply & demand set the prices, now a growing number of trade sellers seem to be inflating prices substantially. There are still some fair trade sellers who ask realist prices which are closer to the prices fetched when similar items are auctioned privately. The situation seems to be worse with UK trade sellers.

Ebay as a whole seems to be driving the private sellers away from the site which ultimately is not so good for us as customers.
IanIan, if the sellers get the prices they ask then the market is clearing. In thin markets like the one for used photographic equipment, a seller has to choose between selling an item quickly for a relatively low price or more slowly for a higher one. Which he chooses reflects his need for cash now and his assessment of demand.

I too yearn for the bad old days when "steals" could be had. They've been gone for quite some time. And I say this even though the occasional steal still turns up.

What is a "fair trade seller?" An idiot? And is "private seller" another way of spelling "person who doesn't want to get the most possible for his wares?"

Cheers,

Dan

[IanG]

Dan, a fair trade seller on Ebay shifts the stock he's selling quickly at reasonable prices, and consequently has a good profitable turnover and satisfied customers who are happy to recommend to others. I can think of quite a number in the UK, EU and US. Most have retail outlets as well as an ebay presence so are well aware of market trends and prices.

Of course any seller wants to get the best possible price, but that's quite different from posting ridiculously high prices on Ebay in the hope that some poor sucker will buy.

It's also happening with specific cameras & lenses, 90mm f6.8 Angulon's are being over priced by certain UK Ebay stores to the tune of around double the price from reputable Large Format dealers with retail stores as well as an Ebay presence, the same goes for other older lenses like pre-War Tessars etc.

Ian

[Jim Michael]

Don't you think it would be more collectable if it had the original lens?


Judging by the pictures... looks well worth the start price at least. It's vintage by the strictest rules and it's well within the range of collector.

[Kuzano]

Don't you think it would be more collectable if it had the original lens?

Very likely, and the easiest thing to rectify by someone who is actually collecting these.