PDA

View Full Version : Contact Printing Frames



Really Big Cameras
6-Feb-2009, 17:08
This is both an announcement of a new, upcoming product line, and a solicitation for input from potential customers.

I am in the process of adding a line of high quality contact printing frames to my product offerings. The manufacturer currently makes them in the following sizes:

24x30cm (9.4" x 11.8") - This seems like the perfect size for anything up to 8x10 negatives on paper up to 8.5" x 11". I expect this size will be my biggest seller.

30x40cm (11.8" x 15.7") - Another size that seems very logical. Obviously works well for negatives up to 11x14. And, I also noticed that several types of paper stock favored by alt process printers (Arches Platine, watercolor papers, etc.) come in 11x15 sheets. This frame would work with this size of pre-cut paper.

40x50cm (15.7" x 19.7) - I'm not sure if this is a good size. It would work fine for 14x17, but it a hair too small for 16x20. Also, I know that for sizes larger than 11x14, many printers prefer a vacumm frame over a conventional contact printing frame.

So, I welcome comments on these sizes, and I'd like to hear input for additional sizes, either bigger or smaller.

One thing I've noticed about the current market is a void of contact printing frames in the banquet sizes. Do you think there is a market for contact printing frames supporting 4x10, 5x12, 7x17, 8x20 and 12x20 film sizes? The frames would be slightly oversized (an inch or two bigger than the nominal format size in both directions). Also, maintaining good center pressure should be less of a problem in the banquet formats than the standard formats as you move up in sizes. The length of the back springs would remain reasonably short, and additional springs can be added as the length of the negative increases.

All comments welcome.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://reallybigcameras.com)

Jay Wolfe
6-Feb-2009, 20:27
Dan Pelland makes really nice contact frames to any size desired. A friend has an 8x20. Also, AWB makes panoramic frames. I think the market is covered well.

Really Big Cameras
6-Feb-2009, 20:53
Dan Pelland makes really nice contact frames to any size desired. A friend has an 8x20. Also, AWB makes panoramic frames. I think the market is covered well.

Jay,

Thanks for the input.

According to his site (http://www.lmcs.com/howto.htm), Dan Pelland is no longer making contact printing frames. He does offer plans and spring kits for a 9" wide frame for those who wish to attempt making their own.

Based on the AWB web site, it appears contact printing frames are custom order. There are no prices listed and no mention of any available for sale at the current time.

So, while there are certainly alternatives, my plan would be to have the items in stock and ready to ship when a customer places an order. No waiting weeks or months for a custom made contact printing frame.

That's why I'm trying to nail down what sizes to offer. I want to be able to have what people want in stock when they want it.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://reallybigcameras.com)

Really Big Cameras
8-Feb-2009, 12:41
It does appear there may be a market, no doubt a small one, but a market none-the-less, for contact printing frames in the banquet sizes. Or, at least a frame capable of handling 7x17 and 8x20 negatives.

A NOS (new, old stock) AWB 10" x 22" contact printing frame sold on eBay this morning for $237.50 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=330304815368). From, the photos that accompany the auction, one of the corners has come unglued and will need to be re-glued by the new owner. The frames I will be selling have reinforced (splined) corners to prevent this from happening.

The frames I will be selling are made by the camera manufacturer Argentum. They are very well made from high quality materials. The wood is white ash (the same straight-grained hardwood use to make baseball bats). The actual imaging area is 1cm larger in both direction than the nominal frame size. So, the image area of the 24x30cm frame is actually 25x31cm (9.8" x 12.2"). So, a 24x55cm frame for 7x17 and 8x20 would have image area of 25x56cm (9.8" x 22").

I'll try to get some pictures of the 24x30cm frame posted in the next day or two. In the mean time, here's a link (http://www.argentumcamera.com/_angol/catalog/cpf_eng_sm.pdf) to a pdf file of the contact printing frames page from the manufacturer's printed catalog.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://reallybigcameras.com)

David A. Goldfarb
8-Feb-2009, 16:05
I own one old Century (or something like that) 7x17" frame and wouldn't mind having another one or two. I'd actually prefer an 8x20" frame for 7x17", so I don't know how much sense it would make to offer both sizes. In general, I prefer using a larger frame than the neg I'm printing, even when I'm printing exactly to the neg size as I usually do (big black borders on albumen prints eat up the gold toner).

Vaughn
8-Feb-2009, 16:46
I printed all last night -- 8x10 platinum prints on 11x14 paper. The 12x15 frame worked very well. I have printed on quarter sheets (11x15) with the frame also.

I think the 30cmx40cm might actually be a good seller, too, for those doing alt processes. It is nice having the frame be slightly larger than the paper.

For 4x10 negs, I find the same one I use for 8x10 works just fine. I would think that even 5x12 and 5.5 x 14 would still work well in a frame sized for 11x14 negatives. Larger panoramic sizes would benefit from panoramic proportioned frames.

Vaughn

Really Big Cameras
10-Feb-2009, 18:24
I own one old Century (or something like that) 7x17" frame and wouldn't mind having another one or two. I'd actually prefer an 8x20" frame for 7x17", so I don't know how much sense it would make to offer both sizes. In general, I prefer using a larger frame than the neg I'm printing, even when I'm printing exactly to the neg size as I usually do (big black borders on albumen prints eat up the gold toner).

Dave,

I'm going to ask the manufacturer to make a contact printing frame for the 7x17 and 8x20 formats. The nominal size would be 24x55cm. The actual image area for these frames is bigger by 1cm in each direction than the nominal sizes. So, the 24x30cm frame actually has an image area of 25x31cm (9.8" x 12.2") and a 24x55cm frame would have an image area of 25x56cm (9.8" x 22") - which should be about perfect for 7x17 and 8x20 negatives.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://reallybigcameras.com)

Really Big Cameras
10-Feb-2009, 18:36
I printed all last night -- 8x10 platinum prints on 11x14 paper. The 12x15 frame worked very well. I have printed on quarter sheets (11x15) with the frame also.

I think the 30cmx40cm might actually be a good seller, too, for those doing alt processes. It is nice having the frame be slightly larger than the paper.

For 4x10 negs, I find the same one I use for 8x10 works just fine. I would think that even 5x12 and 5.5 x 14 would still work well in a frame sized for 11x14 negatives. Larger panoramic sizes would benefit from panoramic proportioned frames.

Vaughn

Vaughn,

The image area of the 30x40cm frame is actually 31x41cm (12.2" x 16.1"). So, it should handle the quarter sheet (11x15) papers nicely.

I also agree that there probably isn't a big need for a dedicated frame for the mini-banquet (4x10 and 5x12) sizes. The 24x30cm and 30x40cm frames can handle those sizes. As you move up to the larger banquet sizes (7x17, 8x20 and 12x20), the savings in frame cost, weight and bulk become more significant. The springs would be shorter (and less expensive) and the dedicated banquet frames would fit better on many darkroom counters and benches than a large frame of standard format proportions

As I mentioned in my response to David, I'm going to ask the manufacturer to make a 24x55cm size for the 7x17 and 8x20 formats. I will also ask them about a frame for 12x20. And I may ask them to make their 40x50cm frame a little larger so it can support 14x17, 16x20 and 12x20 with a single frame.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://reallybigcameras.com)

David A. Goldfarb
10-Feb-2009, 19:34
a 24x55cm frame would have an image area of 25x56cm (9.8" x 22") - which should be about perfect for 7x17 and 8x20 negatives.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://reallybigcameras.com)

That sounds ideal, Kerry, particularly if the price is reasonable.

For these oblong formats the back is usually made in three sections with three springs. The one I have is actually three separate panels overlapping with lap joints, but more modern ones I've seen have the outer panels hinged to the center panel. An added attraction of this design is that you can do two smaller prints in the same frame with the possibility of removing one print without disturbing the other one.

r.e.
12-Feb-2009, 16:06
When are these going to be available?

I have my lab do contacts for 35mm film, 120 film and 4x5, which I use to make decisions about what to discard and what to scan.

I'm now spending a good part of the year in a place where there is no nearby lab, so I may take over the processing and contact sheet printing myself.

If this is a solid product, which I imagine it is if you are involved, I'd rather buy from you than B+H or wherever.

Kerik Kouklis
12-Feb-2009, 17:18
Kerry,

I think many alt-process printers would like a frame at least 4 inches greater in each dimension than the negative. I like to have nice, larger borders on my pt/pd/gum prints. But, I've got all the frames I need, so I won't be part of your market. The best frame I own is a Great Basin 16"x24". Beautifully crafted with great springs. If I was making new frames, I would model them after this.

Really Big Cameras
22-Feb-2009, 23:59
When are these going to be available?

Soon. Probably in about 2 - 4 weeks in the standard sizes (24x30cm, 30x40cm and 40x50cm). The manufacturer, Argentum, has agreed to make a 25x56cm size for 7x17 and 8x20, and is also interested in making a frame for the 12x20 format (probably 36x56cm). These banquet sizes will take a little longer as the manufacturer doesn't have these sizes in stock and will need to ramp up production - probably about 4 - 6 weeks.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://reallybigcameras.com)

Really Big Cameras
23-Feb-2009, 00:06
Kerry,

I think many alt-process printers would like a frame at least 4 inches greater in each dimension than the negative. I like to have nice, larger borders on my pt/pd/gum prints. But, I've got all the frames I need, so I won't be part of your market. The best frame I own is a Great Basin 16"x24". Beautifully crafted with great springs. If I was making new frames, I would model them after this.

Kerick,

Thanks for the input. It looks like the frames will be 2" - 4" bigger in each dimension than the negative size - depending on the format.

I don't want them to get too bag, as it adds cost and shipping weight, and takes up more room during use and storage. Plus, I like to keep the Y-dimension as short as possible as it makes it easier for the springs to exert strong, even pressure over the entire negative area. As this dimension grows, this gets harder to accomplish. This shouldn't be a problem in the 25x56cm size for 7x17 and 8x20, as the springs are the same length as the standard 24x30cm nominal size (25x31cm actual size). Nor should it be a problem on the 36x56cm size for 12x20. Where it gets to be a problem in when you get up to 20"x24". For negatives that large, a vacuum frame is really the best solution.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://reallybigcameras.com)

Really Big Cameras
23-Feb-2009, 00:14
I now have pricing information on the Argentum Contact Printing Frames:

24x30cm - $219.00
30x40cm - $249.00
40x50cm - $299.00

Banquet sizes:

24x55cm for 7x17 and 8x20 - $249.00
35x55cm for 12x20 - $309.00

These prices do not include shipping - which will be billed at standard domestic rates.

The actual image area of these frames is 1cm larger in each direction than the nominal dimensions.

If you would like to pre-order a frame (no payment due until the frames are ready to ship from the manufacturer), please send an email to sales@reallybigcameras.com and speciy the size you would like to purchase.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://reallybigcameras.com)

Really Big Cameras
3-Mar-2009, 21:46
I have confirmed with the manufacturer that the 7x17/8x20 and 12x20 contact printing frames will have three springs and a three-piece back (with two hinges). This will permit making two smaller prints simultaneously and removing one without disturbing the other.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://reallybigcameras.com)

Really Big Cameras
20-Apr-2009, 16:19
Really Big Cameras has placed our first order with Argentum for the contact printing frames discussed in this thread. The shipment is expected to arrive in about two weeks and will include a limited quantity of contact printing frames in the following sizes:

24x30cm - $219.00 + shipping
30x40cm - $249.00 + shipping
24x55cm for 7x17 and 8x20 - $249.00 + shipping
35x55cm for 12x20 - $309.00 + shipping

The actual image area of these frames is 1cm larger in each direction than the nominal dimensions.

Initial quantities will be limited. If you'd like to reserve a frame from this shipment, please send an email to: sales@reallybigcameras.com

Please indicate which size(s) you wish to reserve and include your zip code for calculation of the shipping charges.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://reallybigcameras.com)

William McEwen
27-May-2009, 14:11
I'll try to get some pictures of the 24x30cm frame posted in the next day or two. In the mean time, here's a link (http://www.argentumcamera.com/_angol/catalog/cpf_eng_sm.pdf) to a pdf file of the contact printing frames page from the manufacturer's printed catalog.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://reallybigcameras.com)

Hi, Kerry:

I looked at the PDF, and the frames appear to be well made. Looks like a good product.

I'm curious why Argentum doesn't seem to condone silver printing and conventional light sources!

William

Really Big Cameras
2-Jun-2009, 08:14
I'm curious why Argentum doesn't seem to condone silver printing and conventional light sources!

William,

It took me a while to understand what you meant by your comment. I assume you are referring to this statement from the Argentum PDF:

"Argentum contact printing frames ensure adequate and powerful pressure, so they are highly recommended to be used for historical photographic procedures, where contact printing of negatives is done by sunlight or UV light."

They then list a number of alternative processes:

Salted Paper Print,
Albumen Print,
Cyanotype,
Argentotype,
Platinotype,
Pigment Print,
Gum Print,
Bromoil Process,
Carbro Process, etc.

These statements are not meant to be exclusionary. They are just examples of processes that are traditionally contact printed. Of course, there is absolutely nothing in the design or construction of the Argentum contact printing frames that would prevent using them for producing prints made on silver-based papers using conventional light sources.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://reallybigcameras.com)

William McEwen
2-Jun-2009, 11:47
Hi, Kerry:

First of all, it's good to make an online acquaintance with you after reading your stuff in VC over the years.

I should have added a :) to my message about Argentum not mentioning silver processes. I was being a smart aleck (as usual) and didn't expect such a thoughtful reply!

I don't consider Argentum's omission a slight, but I would like to see them add silver paper + conventional light sources to their list of contact printing frame uses.

All best,

William

Really Big Cameras
12-Jun-2009, 17:09
Hi, Kerry:

First of all, it's good to make an online acquaintance with you after reading your stuff in VC over the years.

I should have added a :) to my message about Argentum not mentioning silver processes. I was being a smart aleck (as usual) and didn't expect such a thoughtful reply!

I don't consider Argentum's omission a slight, but I would like to see them add silver paper + conventional light sources to their list of contact printing frame uses.

All best,

William

William,

No problem. I assumed your comments were made with tongue in cheek.

And, I am happy to report that one customer has confirmed that the Argentum contact printing frames do indeed work with silver papers (Azo) and conventional light sources.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://reallybigcameras.com)

Really Big Cameras
12-Jun-2009, 17:17
I just received a shipment today, and now have the Argentum contact printing frames in stock in the banquet sizes. The actual image areas are:

25x56cm (9.8" x 22") for 7x17 and 8x20
36x56cm (14.1"x22") for 12x20

I can also confirm that backs of the banquet frames are three piece (two hinges) with three springs - as requested.

I have another shipment on the way that will include the standard size frames:

24x30cm nominal (25x31cm = 9.8" x 12.2" actual)
30x40cm nominal (31x41cm = 12.2" x 16.1" actual)

That shipment should be arriving in about 7 - 10 days.

I'll try to post some photos of the banquet format contact printing frames this weekend.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://reallybigcameras.com)

Really Big Cameras
19-Sep-2011, 20:54
Just thought I'd post a brief update on the status of these beautifully made Argentum contact printing frames.

Argentum has redesigned their web site. The PDF file for their contact printing frames can now be found here (http://www.argentumcamera.com/eng/catalogs/cpf_eng.pdf).

Here's a few small images of what the frames look like:

http://www.argentumcamera.com/images/images_access/frame3jpg.jpg

http://www.argentumcamera.com/images/images_access/frame1.jpg

http://www.argentumcamera.com/images/images_access/frame2.jpg

Really Big Cameras has the following sizes in stock:

24x30cm nominal (25x31cm = 9.8" x 12.2" actual) - $219.00 + shipping
30x40cm nominal (31x41cm = 12.2" x 16.1" actual) - $249.00 + shipping

and for the 7x17 and 8x20 formats:

25x56cm (9.8" x 22") - $249.00 + shipping

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://reallybigcameras.com)

Really Big Cameras
20-Sep-2011, 20:44
It appears there may be some interest in top quality contact printing frames for the 20x24 format. Argentum doesn't currently offer this size, but if there is sufficient interest, I'm sure they'd be willing to make a batch.

I won't know the details on pricing until I speak with them and determine the batch size to produce. But, for now assume the price will be about 1.5x (give or take) the prices of the 40x50cm and 12x20 (36x56cm) frames. So, likely somewhere around $450 + shipping. If you would be seriously interested in purchasing a quality 20x24 contact printing frame in the $450 + shipping price range, please post here, or shoot me a PM.

These are really well made, thoughtfully designed, beautiful contact printing frames. I 'd love to see them available in the mammoth 20x24 size.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://reallybigcameras.com)

nsurit
27-Oct-2011, 06:40
Kerry, I can't find these frames on your site. Are they still available? If so, in what sizes? Bill Barber

Really Big Cameras
27-Oct-2011, 18:55
Kerry, I can't find these frames on your site. Are they still available? If so, in what sizes? Bill Barber

Bill,

Sorry, they aren't listed on my site, but I have the following in stock:

24x30cm nominal (25x31cm = 9.8" x 12.2" actual) - $219.00 + shipping
30x40cm nominal (31x41cm = 12.2" x 16.1" actual) - $249.00 + shipping

and for the 7x17 and 8x20 formats:

25x56cm (9.8" x 22") - $249.00 + shipping

Kerry