Changing bag versus tent

[Matus Kalisky]

Hello,

I go to New Zealand end of March. While We (me and my wife) will spend most of the nights in a camper van, there may be a problem loading the film holders. So I am considering taking a changing bag along.

The issue is - I have invested already quite some money into different photo items and changing tents are relatively expensive and heavy (airfare luggage limits). So I am considering to buy just a changing bag as they are much cheaper.

The question is - how bad/hard/inconvenient is the changing bag compared to a tent?

Bottom line - I have never used either of the two possibilities.

[jb7]

I think it depends on the format-
I used a changing bag for years for 4x5,
and when I had to load 8x10, I got a larger one-

After one experience loading 7 darkslides,
I immediately went shopping for a tent-

Haven't used it yet, but it's got to be an improvement.

It doesn't seem that much heavier either (Harrison 35mm size)

Anyway, bottom line is, 4x5 is ok in a bag-
or rather, I put up with it without questioning it too much...

j

[David A. Goldfarb]

Fewer dust problems with a tent, because the fabric isn't likely to contact the holders or the film. I had one for a while that was essentially a large changing bag with a Tinkertoy kind of frame made from plastic tubes. The frame didn't necessarily add much weight to the bag.

[BarryS]

A good tent is not going to be much heavier than a bag--if at all. There's really no comparison; tents are much nicer to use. Buy the Harrison medium-sized tent to start out because you'll likely buy one eventually after the frustrations of a bag.

[eddie]

if you always try and keep either closed this helps reduce dust.

i used a bag for years with film up to 8x10. i got a tent one day for a good deal. now i find a bag more of a hassle. ignorance is bliss. just do not try a tent and THEN go to a bag!

save the bulk and go with a bag.

another thing you can do is what we used to do while big wall climbing. get some of the aluminum tent poles cut them to the right length and stick them inside of then bag....making your own tent. pad the pole ends so they do not rip through the bag. this will again add to your bulk issues but it will be about $200 cheaper than a ready-made tent.

eddie

[Walter Calahan]

Changing bag always gave me more dust problems.

[Archphoto]

I tend to agree with Eddy, but those poles can be bought in New Zealand aswell.
With bags you have to be carefull about dust...... I had trouble with it for many years.
Vacume them regulary ! (Staubsauger !)

Peter

[jvuokko]

One thing about bags that haven't yet covered is fact that bag is really hot and huminidy inside it tends to rise fast if you use it in warm weather (20 celsicius or more). My wordt experiments with a bag are from japan where temperature was already around 35'C and air was very humid.
The amount of sweat inside bag - and at the negatives too! Something that I haven't prepared for.

[eddie]

One thing about bags that haven't yet covered is fact that bag is really hot and huminidy inside it tends to rise fast if you use it in warm weather (20 celsicius or more). My wordt experiments with a bag are from japan where temperature was already around 35'C and air was very humid.
The amount of sweat inside bag - and at the negatives too! Something that I haven't prepared for.

oh yeah! how soon we forget.....what jvokko said!

[John Bowen]

Bag = DUST, DUST and more DUST

Tent = Happy Photographer

'nuff said

[BarryS]

...Once at your location go to a store and get a set of tinker toys. Make a small 'scaffold' to set inside the changing bag to hold it up and away from the holders and film surface. ..

You don't even have to buy the tinkertoys. I made my own with a some dowel rod stock and a some scrap wood pieces. Unfortunately, it was still miserable using the changing bag. Here's my list in order of preference:

1) Dark (or darkened) room

2) Harrison tent

3) Dead cow

4) Changing bag

[Matus Kalisky]

Ok Barry I think I got it ... :D

Is there anyone would would have one of the Photoflex tents? The used to a bit cheaper and lighter than Harrison tents. I can find them here but for 130 euro .. :o

[Bruce M. Herman]

I have a Photoflex tent and used it for awhile. Working in the US southwest was discouraging. I had dust on most transparencies. I strongly recommend quickloads when you're away from a room that you can darken. More expense, less frustration, at least for me.

[Drew Wiley]

Many years back I remember watching some pathetic wretch retouching AA prints
from negatives he had changed out in the bottom of a sleeping bag - he probably
ordered Spotone dye by the gallon! But if I do need to change film in the field, I have both sizes of Harrison tent, small for 4x5 or large if I'm traveling with 8X10.
Then I include a few very thin polyethylene wastebasket liners of the appropriate size, attaching one edge to the roof of the film ten with a small clothespin, so that
the space I am actually handling film in is inside lintfree plastic. I also add a plastic
ground cover if I'm someplace dirty like the woods. A sponge is handy too, especially for countertops in motels. Then I also pack some latex or nitrile finger
cots, powder-free, which are just like the tips of disposable gloves but much more
portable, in order to keep finger oils off film in places where I can't use soap. My
film boxes are disassembled and each component sprayed with matte lacquer, which
prevents any fraying or cardboard dust. This system is very portable and, so far,
100% dust proof.

[Andrew]

I have a Harrison tent and it weighs 1kg on the kitchen scales incl. the poles and carry bag

I wouldn't go back to a bag except in an emergency and if I did, I'd try putting in a box on its side to try making some working room because the bag inevitably wants to close in on your hands

I've got an oversized heavy duty change bag that's about 3 feet square and it weighs in 150gm HEAVIER than the tent and packs to similar volume

need I say more ?

as to the dollars, a Harrison tent went on Aus ebay within the last week for AU $103.50 and mine was also off ebay for about Au $140 last year
those prices aren't that expensive compared to all the other gear we have...

[Mark Stahlke]

I just use a blindfold.
:D

[Matus Kalisky]

Thank you all.

At the end - I got lucky. I asked about a changing bag at the place where I will order my backpack (photobackpacker.com) and Bruce just had one Photoflex he intended to sell, so I will take it.

- Drew -

now that is interesting - but how do you manage not to have the thin plastc bag sticking to your hands, film, etc? Any more tricks how you manage that?
I will try that once I have the back home.

I will definitely train with old film before I will try to load my precious slides under Mount Cook :)

[Joseph O'Neil]

Bag = DUST, DUST and more DUST

Tent = Happy Photographer

'nuff said

EXACTLY my experience. I agree 150% (if that's permissable :) ).

I had, still ahve (somewher) a changing bag,a nd while it's okay for 35mm or 120, disaster for 4x5.

I bought myself a tent that folds very flat some years ago and never looked back. The brand name here in Canada was "Photoflex" if that means anything, and it comes in something of an oval shape, with a carry bag. Love it, drag it everywhere.

more 'nuff said.
:D

[brad martin]

What Joseph said. I used a changing bag once. The words "Dust" and "Disaster" sound about right.

[Uri A]

My humble opinion: I find both very frustrating. Buy a roll of black "gaffa" (NZ for cloth duct tape) at any hardware store and tape around the door in whatever room you stay in. most hotels/pub bathrooms do not have windows, so just tape around the doorframe and there you have a perfect darkroom. Just make sure the light switch is inside and wait a few minutes for your eyes to adjust to check for leaks.
Even if youre staying in a van, you should be able to find a public toilet to suit.

[BetterSense]

Changing bags are completely unsuitable for loading film holders. After the experience I had on vacation with a changing bag and dusty negatives I'll never use one again. Changing tents may be better but for now I just prefer to find somewhere dark.

[bobwysiwyg]

I agree tents are better because of the dust issue. Even with these, it pays to wipe the insides with a barely damp cloth occasionally.

[Frank Petronio]

If you want to go cheap and light, just find dark rooms to change in. But a Harrison tent is by far the best investment you can make, so much so that I would sell a lens or downgrade some other item in order to have the tent.

Of course, for the $150 cost of a tent you could purchase 30 $5 4x5 holders... perhaps 60 sheets is enough?

There are also Calumet and Photoflex "tents" that are not nearly as nice as a Harrison but they work -- expect to pay about $75 new, $60 used.

[bobwysiwyg]

Frank is right about the Harrison. I wasn't aware of them when I went looking for one and went with a Photoflex. The bottom is not entirely flat when open, a bit of a nuisance but I've learned to live with it. If I had it to do over again, I would go with the Harrison.

[Brook Martin]

My Harrison tent may be the only piece of brand new equiptment I ever bought for LF, would do it again in a heartbeat and would not even think about traveling/shooting with out one. For 8x10 or larger its much easier than carrying more holders. Buy a size bigger than you think you need, then you will want a bigger camera.

[Roger_Luo]

It is google...
I heard my name and the range of changing bags/tent I designed and selling on the bay had been discussed here http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=54142 two months ago.
I have been selling these since 2005, with introduction of XL size bag in 2007 and field working tripod tent for LF 2008. Those who used it will tell you why it is better than those rubberised ones.
Maybe a humble solution?
Not going to put the link here, if you are interested just do a google on "anti static Heavy Duty Darkroom film changing bag" ;)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3259/3151229826_f7d34f72dc_o.gif

[ki6mf]

I prefer the tent and found one direct from photoflex that was a closeout. It was not to expensive and only has cosmetic blemishes, i have never find where the blemish was and this may be a low cost alternative. I now use my oversize bag as a dark cloth so for the trip this may be an option for film and for a dark cloth!

[Clement Apffel]

I'll second the dust issue with the changing bag. Not a very viable solution to me.
Someone mentioned the fact that you cannot come back from a tent to a bag, that's exactly how I feel. I am currently gathering my gear for a coming trip. and for a second I considered taking the bag. I tried to load some wasted films and wow... I didn't remember that was so uncomfortable and bulky.

Concerning the tent: I'm using a photoflex and I did not experience any issues with it. A very fine product for 70$ new.
I certainly won’t pay more that the double for a Harrison !

EDIT : I only shoot 4x5"

[Songyun]

I have all 3 of these, two changing tents, one changing box, one changing bag (which I dont use at all)
While the harrison is my favorite, I won't toss away the changing box, as I use it to load jobo 3*** drums.

[Arne Croell]

If a dark room is not option, a tent is much better than a bag, because of dust. Even then dust is a problem. I carry one of those sticky tape rollers to remove lint from clothes with my tent (the Harrison "pup" tent, works fine for 4x5) and "roll" the tent floor and the walls before each reloading. It is mind boggling how much lint there is, even though I keep the tent closed except for moving things in and out.

[Roger Thoms]

I'm still using a bag, and am very close to buying Harrison tent. I've used my friends Harrison tent and what a luxury. Of coarse a room is the best, Like the black tape idea for the motel bathroom.

Roger

[Peter York]

I'm currently spotting some old negatives that were loaded in a changing bag - it will take a looooong time to finish. It looks like the bag attacked my film! If Photoshop did not exist, I would trash these images immediately.

My Harrison tent is an ESSENTIAL piece of equipment. I will still use a changing bag when backpacking, but only after debating the issue extensively with my knees.

A plastic garbage bag inside a changing bag is a must to protect the film from dust. It is frustrating, trying to get into the plastic bag inside the changing bag, with sweaty paws sticking to the plastic, but it can be done when absolutely necessary.

Peter