Electric cable release

[aphexafx]

Is there such a thing as an electric cable release? As in a small unit that would attach to any cable socket and which would be able to trip the shutter electronically. This would basically be a small solenoid driving a cable release cord, etc.

I can't believe this doesn’t exist, and if not, why?

[Dave Jeffery]

I would guess that newer solenoids would add some shake to the lensboard. There are the long air pressure cable releases that you may already be aware of.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/545650-REG/General_Brand_SR765_Air_Bulb_Release_.html

Hope this helps.

[Ernest Purdum]

Some fifty years ago you hardly ever saw a Speed Graphic without a little solenoid on the lensboard. It operated on the current from the flashgun batteries. It worked by pulling directly on the shutter5 release lever. These show up on eBay sometimes and older photo dealers might have on in a drawer somewhere.

[Bob Salomon]

Until the early 80s Linhof offered their own electric release for the 2x3 to 5x7 Technika (It mounted where the cable release Quick Socket is on the lensboard and the power supply and the release fit into the Anatomical Grip) and for the Technar. It was also used on the Technar cameras. If anyone wants I can send them an image of the system.

WHEN it worked it worked well. But it was fussy to get the correct timing and required two 15V batteries. Each lens needed it's own solenoid and the factory had to do the installation.

A simple cable release was easier and more reliable.

[Nathan Potter]

I assume your application is for remote, unattended tripping. I suppose you could rig one up using any electrically actuated solenoid where the plunger is available for depressing a short throw cable release. Perhaps crudely mount the assembly on a small slab of wood then attach the unit to the tripod. A DC solenoid could be operated by a battery where the solenoid circuit is closed by a relay actuated by a switch in turn closed by a trip wire. All crude but effective if that's what you're trying to do.

Anyway just some thoughts if you are the handy type.

Nate Potter Austin TX.

[aphexafx]

Thanks for all of the responses! Bob, I would be interested in seeing an image of the system you mentioned, mainly because I'm curious about these things. :)

Dave, good point about vibration, it would work best as an off camera unit with a standard release cable, actually.

I am starting to do large format work in a small studio and often I am the only person available, which means that often I need to be just off camera manipulating something or other. Moving light heads, pouring a liquid, etc.

I also use a digital SLR and an RZ67, both of which can be electronically triggered and both of which I trigger using PocketWizards and my Sekonic light meter. Being able to press the button on my light meter to trigger my cameras and subsequently my strobes has become important to my method at this point.

Enter the Copal shutters and my system is killed by the mechanical releases.

So, I guess I am embarking on a small DIY engineering project and will have to build my own shutter actuator unit.

There are some important design considerations:
A) it must be fairly compact
B) it must be battery powered
C) it should be switched (triggered) via a 1/8" phono jack
D) it must be internally and mechanically dampened so that the stroke of the actuation cable is long, light, and very easy to brake - I do not want to hammer my nice shutters with the raw striker energy of the solenoid, and I want it to withstand a fair amount of cable variability (looping, routing, etc.)
E) it must be enclosed, robust, and professional looking
F) might as well throw in a small piezo buzzer to signal "open shutter" or trigger condition.
G) it should handle continuous duty for bulb mode actuation.

This type of device would also be useful with a sequencer to control the shutter during complex event sequences under software control in the future. This type of device would NOT be useful for timing critical shutter control under one second - but this is not a problem for me, I just want my PocketWizards to fire my capture and lighting sequences on these shutters like I am doing with my other cameras.

Let me just go ahead and stop you before you mention any of the commercial electronic shutters: no, I cannot even pretend to afford a commercial electronic shutter, yes I lust over them, yes I agree that they are swell! ;)

[Dave Jeffery]

"it would work best as an off camera unit with a standard release cable, actually."

Great design idea. I was thinking about the solenoids Ernest mentioned.

A spring mounted between the solenoid and a lever which is connected to the cable release on the other side of a pivot point would soften the movement. All this and batteries would fit in one of the small aluminum electronics project boxes that have a nice finish and can be painted if needed. The phono jack could mount on one of the sides of the box and there are grommets that would fit nicely around the cable of the cable realease. Just some more random ideas.

[Dave Jeffery]

"A spring mounted between the solenoid and a lever which is connected to the cable release on the other side of a pivot point would soften the movement."

And a spring would also be needed on the other side of the lever to return the cable position to zero. Since both springs act in unison it may not be too hard to balance the tension of the springs to make a smooth action. A good hardware store has lots of small springs in various strength and lenths. I would play around with the setup on a piece of plywood using wood screws and once things were right I would tranfer the mechanism design to aluminum or a piece of cutting board using SS machine screws. Put it all in an enclosure.

I have some 12V solenoids here that I'm not using but they are too powerful otherwise I'd send a couple to you. A solenoid that runs off a cheap, easily swapped out, and easily charged battery system seems desireable.

Good Luck!

[Dave Jeffery]

If off the shelf battery packs are not cheap or don't fit an enclosure properly you can always use strips of thin copper sheet to solder together 1.5V rechargeable nicads and tape them, or cast them into various shapes. A variety of voltages is possible when connected in series, and the batteries and rechargers are cheap. Just have to insulate the ends obviously. I used to build battery packs like this for rebreathers and waterproof them in epoxy.

[Dave Jeffery]

If you wish to blend in with the crowd when shooting you can use an assortment of methods to mount the box
-in rural Colorado use haywire
-around the boating folks use epoxy
-at an oil rig use a sledgehammer to attach it
-for the windsurfing, watersports crowd use duct tape
-in Denver use velcro

May as well make a fashion statement while yer at it!

[Bob Salomon]

Thanks for all of the responses! Bob, I would be interested in seeing an image of the system you mentioned, mainly because I'm curious about these things. :)

Dave, good point about vibration, it would work best as an off camera unit with a standard release cable, actually.

I am starting to do large format work in a small studio and often I am the only person available, which means that often I need to be just off camera manipulating something or other. Moving light heads, pouring a liquid, etc.

I also use a digital SLR and an RZ67, both of which can be electronically triggered and both of which I trigger using PocketWizards and my Sekonic light meter. Being able to press the button on my light meter to trigger my cameras and subsequently my strobes has become important to my method at this point.

Enter the Copal shutters and my system is killed by the mechanical releases.

So, I guess I am embarking on a small DIY engineering project and will have to build my own shutter actuator unit.

There are some important design considerations:
A) it must be fairly compact
B) it must be battery powered
C) it should be switched (triggered) via a 1/8" phono jack
D) it must be internally and mechanically dampened so that the stroke of the actuation cable is long, light, and very easy to brake - I do not want to hammer my nice shutters with the raw striker energy of the solenoid, and I want it to withstand a fair amount of cable variability (looping, routing, etc.)
E) it must be enclosed, robust, and professional looking
F) might as well throw in a small piezo buzzer to signal "open shutter" or trigger condition.
G) it should handle continuous duty for bulb mode actuation.

This type of device would also be useful with a sequencer to control the shutter during complex event sequences under software control in the future. This type of device would NOT be useful for timing critical shutter control under one second - but this is not a problem for me, I just want my PocketWizards to fire my capture and lighting sequences on these shutters like I am doing with my other cameras.

Let me just go ahead and stop you before you mention any of the commercial electronic shutters: no, I cannot even pretend to afford a commercial electronic shutter, yes I lust over them, yes I agree that they are swell! ;)

If you can afford it you could get all of your lenses mounted in Rollei 0 and 1 shutters and then you would have fully electronic shutters with the capability for electronic or IR release on a view camera.

[aphexafx]

If you can afford it you could get all of your lenses mounted in Rollei 0 and 1 shutters and then you would have fully electronic shutters with the capability for electronic or IR release on a view camera.

Thanks for the pic of the Linhof release, Bob. To outfit my lenses with the Rollei size 1 shutters and the control unit would run me roughly $6500 - that is not even an option lol. But I dream of the day... ;)

[Bob Salomon]

Thanks for the pic of the Linhof release, Bob. To outfit my lenses with the Rollei size 1 shutters and the control unit would run me roughly $6500 - that is not even an option lol. But I dream of the day... ;)

If you can find them there are also Horseman ISS shutters. These are Copal shutters equipped with stepper motors. They are less then the Rollei and more then the Copal. Also larger then the Copal. The ISS 2 is quite versatile.

They are also made in 0, 1 and 3 sizes where most of the current electronic shutters are only in 0 and 1 sizes.

[aphexafx]

And a spring would also be needed on the other side of the lever to return the cable position to zero. Since both springs act in unison it may not be too hard to balance the tension of the springs to make a smooth action. A good hardware store has lots of small springs in various strength and lenths. I would play around with the setup on a piece of plywood using wood screws and once things were right I would tranfer the mechanism design to aluminum or a piece of cutting board using SS machine screws. Put it all in an enclosure.

I have some 12V solenoids here that I'm not using but they are too powerful otherwise I'd send a couple to you. A solenoid that runs off a cheap, easily swapped out, and easily charged battery system seems desireable.

Dave, this is exactly what I'm thinking, man. Great ideas, thanks for taking the time to post them!

I think that a small lever system will accommodate both a buffering spring system and allow for the transfer of the powerful but short strike of a 12v solenoid to a less powerful but longer strike needed to drive a release cable pin. As you said, any excess energy present when the release pin stops can be absorbed by a spring driving the lever itself. And, a return spring will be used to return the mechanism to the retracted state once the solenoid releases. I think this is just perfect. Also, given the shorter strike of the solenoid, the whole thing should be rather fast acting as a side effect.

I am spec’ing out parts presently (have Mouser, Digi-Key, and All Electronics catalogs open in my browser right now lol). Looks like there are some fairly powerful 12v solenoids with nearly .4" of striker travel that I think are going to work pretty well. I intend to run the unit via one 9v battery, and the charts on these solenoids are showing that I should get fairly adequate performance at that voltage.

Even better, I managed to find some black ABS project boxes that have a built-in 9v battery compartment! I'm thrilled about this.

I think a great feature would be the ability to adjust the length of the release cable sheath buy, say, 1/4" using a threaded connector of some sort in order to adjust for bending, etc. In fact, this could be put in-line up near the shutter end where you could see the tip of the cable and adjust after everything was routed around your camera. This would drastically reduce the reliance on a long strike and make the entire thing more versatile at the same time. Hmmm....

I am still slightly concerned about vibration, but we’ll see how that turns out. If the solenoid solution ends up being too jumpy, another (slower) option would be a small servo motor. But I don’t want to think about that, my money is on the solenoid…

As for mounting I already have a plan to install a 1/4" threaded bolt which I can screw into a PocketWizard and mount them both directly to my Justin spring clamp. A short jumper would then connect the two, and a nice cable release and x-sync pair would run up to the shutters on my camera. Otherwise, yeah, Velcro. :)

[aphexafx]

If you can find them there are also Horseman ISS shutters. These are Copal shutters equipped with stepper motors. They are less then the Rollei and more then the Copal. Also larger then the Copal. The ISS 2 is quite versatile.

They are also made in 0, 1 and 3 sizes where most of the current electronic shutters are only in 0 and 1 sizes.

I really like the ISS system - but I have been unable to find much technical information about it. You don't happen to know where to download a PDF product brochure on this system do you?

Is the stepper used to set the mechanism, which is then spring released, or is the stepper fully integrated into the shutter movement? Is timing controlled by the stepper electronically, etc.? Is the aperture controlled electronically?

Edit/Added: I found this: http://www.komamura.co.jp/e/digital/ISSG3.html - it is a sweet system, indeed. Apparently it is "opto-mechatronic", and I have no idea what the hell that implies! Does that mean my DIY thingy will be "mechano-magnetomatic"??? hehe

[Bob Salomon]

I really like the ISS system - but I have been unable to find much technical information about it. You don't happen to know where to download a PDF product brochure on this system do you?

Is the stepper used to set the mechanism, which is then spring released, or is the stepper fully integrated into the shutter movement? Is timing controlled by the stepper electronically, etc.? Is the aperture controlled electronically?

Best is to ask Horseman Japan

[Ernest Purdum]

I have noted that designers of equipment of this nature tend to use rotary rather than linear solenoids. This might be due to the stroke consideration that you mentioned.

To anybody starting out on something like this www.mcmaster.com can be a major asset in finding parts and materials required.

[aphexafx]

Great link, Ernest - and suggestion regarding rotary solenoids noted.

In case anyone is interested here are some additional links for electronic and electromechanical parts:

http://www.mouser.com/
http://www.digikey.com/
http://www.grainger.com/

[aphexafx]

Great Hammond enclosure! http://hammondmfg.com/pdf/1553D_BAT.pdf
Good looking solenoid. http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/142464.pdf

[Photo Dave]

Something like this? I also searched for an automated timer/shutter release to do photos like this because I wanted to also get a good nights sleep and not have to baby sit the camera. When I couldn't find anything I decided to build my own. It's really quite simple, the only "high tech" component is a miniature linear actuator which drives the cable release. Very smooth, very powerful, somewhat expensive. It came with it's own controller board which I switch input voltages for on/off (in/out). A Radio Shack rechargeable battery pack and as you can see a Very modified timer from Timex. Works great... but I wouldn't try taking it through airport security!

Dave

[aphexafx]

Something like this?

Yup! Awesome, man. The linear actuator is a great idea as it requires no power to hold its position I assume - perfect for your very long exposures. That's fantastic - there is hope. :D

Coolness, so glad you shared that. Also, that's a GREAT star shot.

[Dave Jeffery]

I was at Frys's electronics today and the aluminum boxes I mentioned are made by Hammond, and I noticed your link to that company in a previous post. There were lots of different sizes and shapes in the under 6" dimensions and they were $16 ish. The boxes have a nice finish and are perhaps a little bit heavy ideally, but if other options fall through you might look at that site again.

Good luck with it and let us know what you end up with.

[Aahx]

Sorry to bring up an older thread... but I too have been looking for a remote system to set off my large format cameras. So I wrote a letter to Pocket Wizard and asked them if they had ever considered making one. The reply I got yesterday explained that they had, but had not gone foward with making it. But then he mentioned that someone else allready was doing something allong those lines and gave me the link as follows:

http://www.kapturegroup.com/kap_htmls/electronic_cable.html

Mind you they are not cheap by any means at $895.00 for it. I am also interested in how your home built system is working out? Is it worth the trubble to build ones own... or fork out the above cost for one pre built with waranty? Either way I will need to get one for my personal projects.

[Archphoto]

$ 900,- for such a unit ????
Gold nuggets and diamonds inside included ?

A radio slave unit for a flash will set you back about $ 50,- add some other parts needed and I don't come to that price, nowhere near it.

Mind you I never had the need for it, so I never thought about it.

Peter

[IanMazursky]

I sent them an email asking how much the cable release trigger is.
Everything else is easy to make, but the cable release part is tricky. There are so many solenoids to choose from and they made it in a small little package.

[Aahx]

That and I am not sure how portable it is... it looks like most of there stuff is designed for studio comercial work. Where I would need something small, sealed, protected and light that I can take out in the field with me when hiking. Preferably with a small radio or infrared actuator. And I would not need the critical timing synch for strobes or delay box at this time.

What I wonder is if they had enough interest from the large format comunity (at a resonable enough cost) if they could fabricate something like that. As they allready have the cable release part done.

[aphexafx]

$900 lol. But that is what you see when engineering meets a tiny market. Besides, it seems too crude, well I hope it works for whoever balled up and bought one.

My version got put on hold because lenses were more important, I met this girl, and the rear differential on my Grand Cherokee blew a seal. But, I am getting ready to get the parts and go for it. I have spec'd so many solenoids that I could honestly go to work selling them, so I am laughing my ass off at Ian's comment.

Aahx, if you have any skill at all, I suggest building one, or at least trying, before even thinking about buying that thing for $900. My latest version, on paper, is compact, adjustable, auto-tensioned, and battery powered. However, it is designed for triggering or short bulb use. See above for a linear actuator version for extended bulb times.

Cheers!

[IanMazursky]

I only sent them an email asking if they would sell it separately. I have no intention on spending $900 for the release.
But if they come back with a reasonable number for just the actuator, then maybe.

I have been researching this for a while and found a few solenoid candidates but they need some modification.
I dont have a metal working lathe but i came up with some ideas thanks to a few posts on the net.

My ultimate goal is to attach it to a timer that can trip the shutter from 1 second-12 hours.
I know its possible and i have seen some of them that are made for telescopes and lasers (neat stuff btw).

-ian

[Aahx]

I sadly have zero workspace to build such a device at my rental home. But I may have to attempt to do as you mentioned somehow as i just recieved a reply from them asking about using there product outdoors as follows:

"I can recomend our 1202 product only for studio or controlled environmental conditions. The housings are not designed to get wet. Furthermore the box requires a 110vac power source.

Keith Hughes
Kapture Group"

So there expensive product will not work for me anyway.

As I am not an engineer I may just have to figure something else out to achieve what I need to create. Which is a radio actuated servo device in a sealed housing for inclement weather. And that the servo housing can mount to tripod with cable long enough to reach lens out to 300mm. As well as not bind up when I am shooting as short as 75mm. Even if I could find a decent timer/manual actuator it would work in some situations. Though I have found the cheap ones create a bit of vibration as the timer is right there at the lens shutter.

As to why I want something sealed and protected is because inclement weather currently here in south central Alaska we are not just dealing with snow and rain... but fine particles of ash from a volcano. Look at Redoubt Volcano at www.avo.edu for details on that if interested. So protection of fine equipment is a must when ashfall is occuring like this last Saturday.

[ic-racer]

I use the Horseman system. It has a long extended release cable (12ft or so). These things come up frequently for little money because no one knows what they are for. (It takes a 22v battery but Radio Shack carries the battery)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/ic-racer/Horsemansolenoid.jpg

[aphexafx]

ic-racer, is that thing nice to your shutters or does it hit them pretty hard?

[ic-racer]

ic-racer, is that thing nice to your shutters or does it hit them pretty hard?

Horseman engineered it very well. In fact, on the ER-1 cameras, the solenoid is the primary means of shutter release. Its a small, precision unit; the solenoid is about 1/2 the size of the Graflex unit and very light aluminum. I don't see that it is any harder on the shutter than a manual cable release.

[Archphoto]

Has anyone ever experimented or even thought about the stuff they sell for Radio Controlled planes and boats ? (models)

The Horseman solution is a verry good one by the way !!!!

Peter

[roger]

I have used the remote control system made for a model RC system. You know, the radio systems that steer the radio controlled cars, boats, and planes. It works fine, but it is not finely finished. I put a cable release on a plastic board with one of the rotating actuators and a battery pack. I drilled holes in the pastic board and mounted things with plastic wire ties. The battery pack was secured with glue and wire ties. I use it at relatively short distances, but the claim is that it will work at a distance of 2000 feet. The rotary actuator has short fingers that strike the cable release about the way your finder does. I have used it with a compur #3 electronic shutter and with manual shutters and it works fine. It is very easy to build.

Roger Leslie

[bglick]

I am sure this is obvious to everyone, but all solenoids "bang"..... two magnets joining. I tried buffering the contact points, but in the world of high precision photography, its like a sledge hammer to the lens. I tested them with test targets, and resolution fall off was too significant. I tried less powerful solenoids, but they get so weak, they can not even trip the shutter.... It was a hell of a learning experience. Best bet, keep the solenoid away from the shutter, use a long cable release. Let the solenoid push the cable release plunger, but only far enough to trip the shutter, any further, it hits the stop, rocking the lens....

Of course, this is using commercially available solenoids. I am sure the Horseman model was custom made for this specific task... what a great product...