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pablo batt
2-Feb-2009, 14:58
i just recieved some paper from adox, via fotoimpex in germany, has any body got any experience with this paper?

i have tried making a few prints and am getting yellowed prints and sometimes brown prints with some minor blackening on the edges, and then a great looking print with no problems at all. no consistency at all.

its only 1 day old and safe light tests are fine, new chems, well sealed box and a solid and matured work flow

any experience with this paper type?

Ted Stoddard
2-Feb-2009, 17:52
I have used this paper before and never came across this type of problem during use... If the paper is one day old then get in touch with Adox could be a bad batch or paper is in fact older batch from coating... So in other words it might be one from a previous coating session than it actually is... things happen... What developer and safe light are you using? It could factor in to this PM if any questions... Hope this helps

pablo batt
2-Feb-2009, 18:01
red safe light and i had tested this with the usual coin trick and switching safe light of to set up and to develop

almoco developer

i can only think it is the paper , if it isnt then i have a problem as i cant think of anything that can be done differently except purchasing a entirely random but new chemical process.

looks like its back to expensive and flat looking ilford

seriously thinking about moving to digital as it seems as if there are so few choices left in the darkroom supplies, and it isnt going to get any better

photography is a endangered species, i hope it doesn't go extinct , as i consider it to be the only truthful art form that the art scene has

we will see i guess

pablo batt
2-Feb-2009, 18:12
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30665456@N06/3249323310/sizes/o/

Ted Stoddard
2-Feb-2009, 18:34
Pablo I use Adox or Ilford with Ansco 130 modified version (w/a few cc's of benzo) I leave the red safelight on during the entire print processing session for each print... That pic of the paper looks horrible, don't discourage keep trying to stick with traditional photography its becoming a lost art but I will try to help you out as much as I can...

pablo batt
2-Feb-2009, 18:49
yeah its been a long road and i dont want to back track.

i finally got a full range of cameras 35mm rangefinder and slr x 2, macro on all formats, 6x6 ,6x7 bronnies,yashicamat, crown ,monorail, full large format darkroom colour and b and w ,all for less than 800 euro

i was a pro darkroom printer many years ago and since last june i have embarked returning to photography once more.

i have bought quite a few sheets of this paper including the largest sizes they have, the smaller paper size is the one that is pretty screwed up as you can see from the picture.

im dreading trying the larger sizes as i hate seeing paper go directly from washing into the bin.

i have contacted the german distributer (fotoimpex) and will keep you updated as i receive more info

pablo

Gene McCluney
2-Feb-2009, 20:46
Any respectible dealer will offer a replacement if there is a defect in manufacture. It is "possible" that the paper just does not like your developer.

Michael Graves
3-Feb-2009, 06:23
I have been using the Adox Vario Classic for a while now as an alternative paper. I get good results from it if using the right negative. But I've never gotten a stained or off color print. But then, my wife doesn't let me shoot off color subjects, either.

pablo batt
3-Feb-2009, 09:03
yeah its the inconsistency of the colour staining that confuses me, it seems that the paper is damaged but to different degrees on each sheet.

i had two sheets taped and dried this morning that i thought were ok, but one was clearly yellowed and the other was a nice crisp white

my work flow is consistant so therefore the paper must not be so.

still no contact from fotoimpex so we will see if the value there customers i guess

pablo batt
3-Feb-2009, 13:50
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30665456@N06/3250740573/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30665456@N06/3251567506/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30665456@N06/3251566910/

i changed all my chemicals and started again
print is still yellowed and now i find age spots

case closed this paper is ancient, at least 5 years i would say, i have the exact same marks on old ilford paper

the paper is peppered all over with these marks

the pics are all from the same sheet and there are a lot more i havent included

Gene McCluney
3-Feb-2009, 19:56
I have 10 year old paper that still prints without flaws.

pablo batt
4-Feb-2009, 04:26
i must admit i think i might have older paper than 10 years thats ok too

its been a couple days now and no reply from my emails from fotoimpex
i also have a large box of 40cmx50cm adox and im guessing that i will see the same there also

luckily i used paypal to pay for the items so if necessary i will reverse my payment to this "photo supplies company"

its the newest paper i onw and it looks like it is the oldeest most trashed paper i have ever had the misfortune of using

my advice stay away from it i you like good pictures

my review of this paper would be, dont buy it ,dont use it , dont even think about it

pablo batt
4-Feb-2009, 08:30
update

i finally flipped and sent adox a email informing them of the paypal dispute and legal action i will be taking against them, 2 minutes later i received a email after 3 longs days of zero contact

they told me to check my safelight even though i had allready told them i had done so and had fully tested there paper to find it was defective

20 years of experience seems to mean nothing to them

WARNING to all photographer do yourself a favor and by ilford lol

pablo batt
4-Feb-2009, 09:06
this is a picture of the damged box of NEW paper i recieved from ADOX
they have been informed of this damaage and paper issues , but seem to think that this is ok and will not effect the paper,

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30665456@N06/3253590750/

Gene McCluney
4-Feb-2009, 12:56
this is a picture of the damged box of NEW paper i recieved from ADOX
they have been informed of this damaage and paper issues , but seem to think that this is ok and will not effect the paper,

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30665456@N06/3253590750/

Isn't the paper wrapped in a black plastic or foil pouch inside? If so, and that bag is not cut, then there is no way the box corner damage could fog the paper.

Again, you can't make a completely GENERAL statement about ADOX because ADOX is not one manufacturer, but rather a NAME that is used to market products from several manufacturers.

I remember years ago when I first used some FORTE paper, I was getting muddy, veiled prints and I thought it was just inferior paper, but I did not realize that my safelight was causing the problem, and the first print I developed with the safelight out was great. But...my safelight had worked fine for ALL OTHER paper from ALL brands I had used up to this point.

pablo batt
4-Feb-2009, 13:45
well that is my experience to date with adox

i have tried lights of and it made no difference to the results new chems , baring changing out my durst 138s and all equipment i have no further ability to make this rubbish paper work, all my other paper is working correctly

when i finally got a email from adox they told me that they had received my previous email and had talked amongst themselves about the problem , they then decided to keep there findings to themselves and failed to email me

i had to threaten a paypal claim and legal action to even get a email response

i am now going to follow through on these issues with legal advice

i am outraged at this

pablo batt
4-Feb-2009, 14:43
hi

yes the paper is wrapped in a plastic bag, i haven't actually checked to see if its damaged, it may well have some damage also,,, good point

but im also guessing that a hole would only have to a pin prick to allow gradual fogging

not my problem though as it says on the package itslef that if its damaged in anyway that it will be replaced

i think i will have to tell that to my solicitor

Eric Rose
4-Feb-2009, 16:20
rather than repeat myself here is my response to this:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showpost.php?p=436953&postcount=7

pablo batt
4-Feb-2009, 17:14
hmm please explain oh wise one, what sort of darkroom mistakes would i be making to produce small black doughnut marks all over my paper surface

and brown staining
yellow staining
black fringing
and surface damage

and pls remember i am a professional printer

Eric Rose
4-Feb-2009, 17:19
so am I. for many years. hence my considered opinion.

pablo batt
4-Feb-2009, 17:19
so why not answer my questions above??

Eric Rose
4-Feb-2009, 17:22
it's not worth my time and effort.

pablo batt
4-Feb-2009, 17:28
thats because you have nothing to give

i hope that you have a similar experience to me , then you might just get it

paul

Bjorn Nilsson
5-Feb-2009, 10:17
Pablo (or is it Paul?)
You obviously got a bad box of paper. It's sad that the customer service at Fotoimpex didn't treat you properly and swiftly, they should have done better.
But now you are overdoing it. You got the facts right about your single box of faulty paper, but discrediting everything labeled Adox will not do you any good. This because a great many of us here (and over at Apug) have had good experiences with Adox and Fotoimpex. Just about all of us are very experienced with darkroom work, not a bunch of beginners, so you are addressing the right crowd.
Please try to calm down, both in your interaction with Fotoimpex and on the threads here. It's very hard to get anything sensible done when being as angry as you seem to be.

//Björn

Ulrich Drolshagen
5-Feb-2009, 10:56
Pablo (or is it Paul?)
You obviously got a bad box of paper. It's sad that the customer service at Fotoimpex didn't treat you properly and swiftly, they should have done better.
But now you are overdoing it. You got the facts right about your single box of faulty paper, but discrediting everything labeled Adox will not do you any good. This because a great many of us here (and over at Apug) have had good experiences with Adox and Fotoimpex. Just about all of us are very experienced with darkroom work, not a bunch of beginners, so you are addressing the right crowd.
Please try to calm down, both in your interaction with Fotoimpex and on the threads here. It's very hard to get anything sensible done when being as angry as you seem to be.

//Björn
Mirko made an appropriate reply on apug.org http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/58692-adox-vc-fine-print-papers-2.html#post747735
There should be no reason to argue any further.

Ulrich

Sal Santamaura
5-Feb-2009, 13:24
http://www.apug.org/forums/747714-post25.html

pablo batt
5-Feb-2009, 13:27
well thats not the response i got from you

you told me that you would count the am amount of sheets i had used and give me my money back based on this, as long as a fault could be found by your staff with the paper.
and as i had opened the box before realising the packaging was damaged then i could not have a replacement based on damaged packaging

what a joke, dont force me to post your email to me on flickr

i have today packed up all my cameras for sale threw the awful adox fine print in the bin(i have no idea what kentmere have to do with this issue you dont even sell the stuff)

my darkroom is for sale and i have thrown all my prints in the bin, negs soon to follow.

i have nothing left and all ive got to say is good riddance

photography died for me today

pablo batt
5-Feb-2009, 14:39
check my flickr stream for details of emails

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30665456@N06/3255875389/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30665456@N06/3255893039/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30665456@N06/3256687760/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30665456@N06/3256687896/

Ralph Barker
6-Feb-2009, 09:45
Pablo, you've received helpful advice from other members here on this situation, which may or may not involve faulty product, but almost certainly a lot of mis-communication.

Let's consider the topic "closed" as far as this forum is concerned, rather than continuing to argue about it in any thread remotely related to the brand.