New Kodak Pan X Aerial Roll Film Available

[Steve Hamley]

Folks,

I’m posting at APUG and the Large Format Photography Forum

I’ve been talking to Jim Galli, a Kodak dealer, and others about Kodak aerial Pan-X film. There are rolls of it available, and it is a desirable fine-grained film. Those of you that know it know what it is. Allegedly, the negative in Polaroid Type 55 was Pan X. The roll film base is 3.9 mil, which is thinner than typical sheet film bases. 5” and 9-1/2” rolls are available.

Here’s the link for the tech specs:

http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-path=2609/2615/3999&pq-locale=en_US

The prices for a 5” x 500 foot roll is $767.00, which is $3.69 per square foot, and would yield 1,500 4x5 sheets at 51 cents per sheet, or 857 5x7 sheets at 89 cents per sheet.

I couldn’t as yet find a quote on the 9-1/2” rolls, but they were quoted as being 700 foot rolls. Since film is sold by the square whatever, at $3.69 per square foot the price would be $2,044. This would yield 840 8x10 sheets at $2.43 per sheet, or 1,292 sheets of 6-1/2 x 8-1/2 at $1.58 per sheet.

Now the bad news is that the Great Yellow Father, as it always has, requires a 10-roll minimum. The dealer in question is willing to pop for that minimum if there’s enough interest/commitment. Personally, I intended to buy a roll periodically and freeze it, realizing this film’s life may be limited, although it is allegedly still being produced.

So I want to gauge interest. Just for hoots and giggles, who’d be interested in a roll of what? Do keep in mind that this would be fresh film from Kodak, not auction film of unknown provenance. The film would bought from, and be shipped by the dealer, not from me.

Cheers,

Steve

[Jim Galli]

Th' trouble with livin' in Tonopah is everyone knows me. If I knock off the liquor store, the owner will come over to my house, have a beer with me, then take me to jail. And my bride works inside the bank so there's no holdin' it up either. 'tis a sad state of affairs.

[Clarence Rhymer]

Jim, your bank still has money in it!!!

Maybe some Cirkut camera interest. 2k is a bit out of my league, but it could be done.

Cheers,
Clarence

[Jeff Bannow]

Do we know for a fact that this would fit into a 5x7 holder, or would it need to be trimmed on the 5" side?

[Jim Galli]

Do we know for a fact that this would fit into a 5x7 holder, or would it need to be trimmed on the 5" side?

'tis a fact. It fits perfectly.

And I would add, a fellow over at APUG worries that this film may buckle because it is thinner than normal. What I have found with a LOT of use is that the film has a natural curl into the emulsion which holds it perfectly at the back of a holder. Perhaps better than the normal stuff.

[Jeff Bannow]

I might be interested, but that's a pretty steep investment. I've been looking for some roll film for my 5x12 though, and this would work.

[Steve Hamley]

It's steep (I feel your pain) because a roll is a LOT of film. I doubt you'd find anything equivalent at a competitive price.

Cheers, Steve

[Jeff Bannow]

True - the price per shot is good. Do we know what the speed of this film is?

[Steve Hamley]

True - the price per shot is good. Do we know what the speed of this film is?

I rated it 25-30, Jim Galli rates it 32. The tech specs off the link above rate it 40, but they also state that's for aerial use and not traditional earth-bound photography.

Cheers, Steve

[PenGun]

Th' trouble with livin' in Tonopah is everyone knows me. If I knock off the liquor store, the owner will come over to my house, have a beer with me, then take me to jail. And my bride works inside the bank so there's no holdin' it up either. 'tis a sad state of affairs.

I here ya bro. The cops here just call me up and have me arrest myself and bring myself down to the station. A cruel world.

[Jim Galli]

Folks,

I’ve been talking to Jim Galli, a Kodak dealer, ........

Cheers,

Steve

Let me set the record straight, I am not the Kodak dealer in that sentence. :cool:

Another point; I've never had any luck using this in 4X5. The 5 is correct and it's easy enough to cut, not so easy to load, but do-able, but the problem is in the developing. It's too small to hold itself in any of my jobo tanks, both 2500 and 3000 series. Nor will it go in the old Kodak stainless holders. It's a pita. 5X7 works perfect in the JOBO.

[John Kasaian]

I've been getting dated, well frozen kodak aerial film from MR FOTO. It's really inexpensive IIRC and good stuff! If you want the current product, your best bet might be to contact an aerial outfit that still uses film. Kodak requires (or used to) huge (and expensive) periodic orders of the stuff. If they have any extra they might give you a break on the price (Kodak sure won't!)

If you want a processor for roll film (it adjusts from 70mm to 9-1/2") I've got an extra one you can have for free---just bring a truck and a pallet jack to pick it up :D

[Tim Povlick]

I have read this thread as well as on APUG. Is this the Panatomic 2412 or 3412. I would very likely be interested in some 8x10 sheets. Assuming the resolution of this film is much better than say TmAx1oo. From the data sheet this would seem to be that case.

Cutting down the 9.5" roll to 8" would seem to be reasonable if one has some fixtures to hold the film spool, a take up reel and a cutter set at 8". It's to bad the 32mm left is not much use.

Is Polaroid 55 close enough to this film that one could get an idea of how it performs?

Thanks,

Tim

[Steve Hamley]

Tim,

2412. Yes, but if you're going to compare it, i would remove a Type 55 sheet and expose it in a regular film holder and process it in the soup of your choice just so you're making things as close as possible.

That said, there's been almost no interest in the 9-1/2" rolls (except you and me).

I don't think there's enough momentum to make it go.

Cheers,

Steve

Cheers,

Steve

[Tim Povlick]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your response. I will try the 55 as you suggest. If it turns out well I am going to give this project some thought. The day before your post I was looking at this same film on the Kodak site, drooling over the thoughts of having some. If it were available in 50 or 100 box sheets I wonder what the interest would be then.

Best Regards,

Tim

[Steve Hamley]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your response. I will try the 55 as you suggest. If it turns out well I am going to give this project some thought. The day before your post I was looking at this same film on the Kodak site, drooling over the thoughts of having some. If it were available in 50 or 100 box sheets I wonder what the interest would be then.

Best Regards,

Tim

Tim,

Boxed, you might make it go, but it would be a labor of love and a long time coming.

10 rolls of the 5" stuff would be $7,670.00 and yield 15,000 4x5 sheets. How long would it take to recoup the investment selling on the forum? Now, you also have to have light tight bags (not really a problem) and ideally triple boxes (a problem), and the time to cut the film.

So, if you want to do it, I'll buy it from you!!

Cheers,

Steve

[Clarence Rhymer]

Tim,

2412. Yes, but if you're going to compare it, i would remove a Type 55 sheet and expose it in a regular film holder and process it in the soup of your choice just so you're making things as close as possible.

That said, there's been almost no interest in the 9-1/2" rolls (except you and me).

I don't think there's enough momentum to make it go.

Cheers,

Steve

Cheers,

Steve

Hello Steve,

You probably are right. I have some interest, but I still have 4 100' rolls of Adox/Efke R100 10" in the freezer. I am conflicted. Who (really) knows how long this Kodak film will be available? On the other hand, it is quite an investment to have sitting in the freezer. AgX posted on APUG that the minimum order for the 9.5" roll was only a single roll. Is that in fact correct?

Cheers,
Clarence

[Steve Hamley]

All,

If Kodak still makes the film (and they reportedly still do, they could just as easily (probably) run a master roll for the annual LF/ULF film order. Anyone interested in this?

Cheers,

Steve

[Steve Hamley]

Hello Steve,

You probably are right. I have some interest, but I still have 4 100' rolls of Adox/Efke R100 10" in the freezer. I am conflicted. Who (really) knows how long this Kodak film will be available? On the other hand, it is quite an investment to have sitting in the freezer. AgX posted on APUG that the minimum order for the 9.5" roll was only a single roll. Is that in fact correct?

Cheers,
Clarence

Clarence,

I have an inquiry in (even before you posted) on the 9.5" minimum. Keep the interest up, maybe we can do something good.

It would be nice to have some help from the Great Yellow Father. Hello, are you listening??

Cheers,

Steve

[Gene McCluney]

There is a but of confusion here. If Kodak lists the 5" and the 9.5" films as "stock" items then a "true" Kodak dealer can order one. If it is a "special order" item then there is a minimum. There must be some dealers that stock this for the aerial photography market (however small), if it is currently used. Kodak has changed the way it serves dealers in the last couple of years, appointing a few dealer/distributors nationwide, who then serve the small retailers. Once such dealer/distributor is Unique Photo. It might pay to check with them, since they can officially order direct from Kodak, and they do so every week.

[Mark Sampson]

The aerial market is so specialized, and small, that anyone seriously interested should contact Kodak Aerial Imaging directly. Based on my past experience with them, I think the people there would be happy to help out.

[John Kasaian]

The aerial market is so specialized, and small, that anyone seriously interested should contact Kodak Aerial Imaging directly. Based on my past experience with them, I think the people there would be happy to help out.

When I got the K-17 I contacted Kodak Aerial Imaging and they are very helpful and really nice people. I hope they still have their jobs!

[cdholden]

Steve,
If you're setup to cut and find yourself with a roll of 5", I'd be interested in shooting a few 5x7s and maybe take a couple hundred sheets off your hands to offset your cost. I'm just a few hours west if you'd like to test drive an old Seneca 5x7. I get over that way every couple of months anyway so timing on a weekend could make it convenient.
Chris

[Pfeiffer Duckett]

All,

If Kodak still makes the film (and they reportedly still do, they could just as easily (probably) run a master roll for the annual LF/ULF film order. Anyone interested in this?

Cheers,

Steve


I would be interested in some 8x10 boxes if some one were to offer it, I do miss type 55, and having some of this film in a larger format would be the bee's knees.

[Steve Hamley]

Update coming soon I hope.

Thanks, Steve

[Kirk Gittings]

Let me set the record straight, I am not the Kodak dealer in that sentence. :cool:

Another point; I've never had any luck using this in 4X5. The 5 is correct and it's easy enough to cut, not so easy to load, but do-able, but the problem is in the developing. It's too small to hold itself in any of my jobo tanks, both 2500 and 3000 series. Nor will it go in the old Kodak stainless holders. It's a pita. 5X7 works perfect in the
JOBO.

I suspect though, like the old 4x5 pack films, they would develope fine shuffled in a tray or in BTZS tubes?

[ic-racer]

. This would yield 840 8x10 sheets at $2.43 per sheet,

You can get Foma 8x10 for $2.98 per sheet already cut and in a box. The price of those rolls for routine 8x10 use is outrageous.

[Mark Sampson]

Kirk, 2412 film is on a 4.0mil ESTAR base. 120 rollfilm is on a 4.7mil acetate base, while sheet film is coated onto 7mil ESTAR Thick base (this from EK's published data).
So I'd think your assumptions would be correct; but you might have to find a way to keep that thin film from moving around inside a regular sheetfilm holder.

[Steve Hamley]

Folks,

Here's the final word:

HAS Imaging in Dayton Ohio has 99 rolls of 9-1/2" x 250 foot rolls of 3.9 mil 2412 Pan X. Some may be spoken for, but Ed is willing to sell some. The price is $600 per roll, and according to him, there will be no more made. You can buy a single roll. The film was purchased from Kodak a year ago and has been frozen since. He did not have an expiration date handy.

5-1/2" film can be had in the thinner base (Kodak pan X 3412), but there's a 10 roll minimum, and the rolls are 500 foot rolls at $835.43 each.

The phone number is 937 222-3856

The new/remaining film is only available through them unless someone else has some old stock.

Oh yes, the edges are NOT perforated.

Cheers,

Steve

[Tim Povlick]

Thanks for tracking this down Steve.

A question to anyone who knows, I checked the specs on this film and it has double the resolution of t-max 100 but grain is 9 versus 8 for tmax. Not sure what to make of that. I would assume objects will appear sharper with this film assuming good quality lenses in front, is this a correct assumption?

I tried some Polaroid 55 in my 8x10, taped the negative to a holder, then developed in Xtol 1:1. The results were alright but not as sharp as Tmax 100 (taken in same manner). This roll film is a lot of effort and I wonder if the effort is worth it over cut sheet film? Someone mentioned it's as good at TP w/o the headaches. That would be worth it to me.

Tim

[Mac Cosgrove-Davies]

Steve,

I'm interested in one roll of the 5 1/2" film. I'm just finishing up a previous roll that I use for my cirkut and also for a Kodak 4A.

Have you found anyone else who is interested?

Mac

[sgelb]

id love to buy some of this cut for 8x10 if anyone wants to hook that up.

[Mac Cosgrove-Davies]

I called HAS Imaging. They have the following roll films in stock:

Pan x (Kodak 2412) 9.5 inch by 250 feet - $600 each
Double x (2405) 9.5 inch by 250 feet - $600 each
Plus x (2402) 9.5 inch by 250' - $650 each

They also can special order from Kodak the 5" film, but there is a 10 roll minimum order.

Plus x (2402) 5" by 150' - $275

Any interest in a spool of the 5" film??

-mac

[Jeff Bannow]

I might be interested in a spool of 5" if there were no sprockets, etc.

[Steve Hamley]

So far only two here that MIGHT and two at APUG that will commit to a minimum 10-roll order if it indeed can be ordered. Not enough yet.

Keep in mind this is the thinner base stuff, not the 3.9 mil.

Cheers, Steve