portraits

[andreacanegrati]

hi,my name is andrea canegrati,sorry for any english spelling mystakes from now on...im really new to lf,but i relate better to 35mm photography and techniques and equipment as i ve been involved with it for quite some time..
can i take a head and shoulder portrait with a 121 mm lens on my 5x4 camera without having distortions because im too close?
here will follow some more info and considerations:
question:i d like to produce a portrait,something like a typical head and shoulder,or just slightly wider than that.the aim is to take advantage of the great 5x4 sheet resolution(compared to 35mm im coming from),so to record the all of the minute shadows and detail of a face tonal range...i know how to achieve that through lighting etc...the problem is the lens size and my camera system...
ok,i will explain.in a 35mm format i d use a 105 to 135mm lens,to ensure i can frame the image 'head and shoulder'...and also to ensure that i can frame the subjet from a good few meters away.any cl;oser i may incurr into face distortions(like nose too big,proportions wrong,etc..)..ok!!i ve got a 121mm lens large format and may borrow a 240mm lens.my camera is a field camera,it cannot extend the bellow for more than 300mm(unless i may add bellolws,which i dont know how and most importantly,i don t think the camera system,a wooden shen hao,foldable,is designed to be extended of more than 300mm..)the 300mm bellow(if that is the limit max and i cannot extend any longer)will set me down to a max lens of 240mm(so i can extend the bellow to 300mm and focus closer than infinity..)..so!!!APPARENTLY A 121MM LF LENS IS EQUAL TO 30mm on 35mm format.a 240mm large format(lf) is equal to what?70mm,lets assume...
can i take my portrit of a bit more than a 'head and shoulder' with the 121mm lens?will i have the same distortions that i am expecting to have with a 30mm lens on a 35mmformat?..or,because it is a 121mm then i wont have any distortions?a bit like i wont have no distortions ,as such,with a 121mm if it was mounted on a 35mmformat?
in other words,can i take that portrait distortions free with my 121mm lens or do i have to mount a 240mm lens

[andreacanegrati]

which lens lenth would u suggest to take portraits?(read my first message,notice i cannot go any more than 240mm,as my shen hao bellow wont extend more than 300mm)...

[Gem Singer]

You can take a head and shoulder portrait with a 121 lens, but the facial features will show wide angle distortion.

A longer lens will solve the problem. Usually, LF portrait photogs use a 300mm lens for head and shoulders shots. Although you could probably get away with a 240.

[Gem Singer]

Also, by using a combination of front base tilt and front axis tilt, it is possible to get enough bellows extension on the Shen. to use a longer lens, such as the Nikkor 300m, or the Fuji 300C.

See examples on the Shen Hao website.

[andreacanegrati]

ok,thanks alot 'gem singer'..probably u r right..as i thought,i need something more like a 135mm in 35mm format,which is infact 450mm...ok!as my camera wont allow me to,ill have to opt for a 240mm,and maybe go for a 'from waist up' portrait..afterall mine is a field camera,not a monorail!probably more suited for landscape than for portrait....any idea or tips on which 'fields of portraiture' may my camera still be good for,fitted with any lens needed?..or is it really hopeless to even attempt portraits with it?....i know i trick i would use is to crop or to use a roll film adapter on my 4x5 camera,that will reduce the image plan and consequently double the effective focal lenth of the camera..but will i loose massevly in definition?.....suggestion on anything related...

[andreacanegrati]

oh,yeah i know what u mean by tilting the front and back on my shen hao...yes,i see the point..but is it not too fidly?..i already have to worry at compose picture and also guide my model subject in order to get my photo..then i also have to worry in fidly fine tuning of bellows,tilting,backs,etc..isn t it too much?..or is it a very straight forward operation that sugested in shen hao website?..it didnt sound like.....plus,i can tilt both backs...still,to focus on my eyes s subject that are 3meters away from me,i will need an extra 15cm of bellows,not surely those few centimeter that i can gain from a tilt back and friont tricks...?am i wrong?

[andreacanegrati]

anyway,ill try at home tonight for those tricks that you suggested for tilt back and front..i will measurre how much extenstion i gain,and via calculation i will be able to guess how close i can focus..ok,thanks!!!

[Gem Singer]

You'll only gain approx. 60mm. using both front base and axis tllts.

When I owned a Shen a few years ago, I was able to get enough bellows extension to use a 300mm lens, without resorting to the extra bellows extension, for head and shoulders portraits.

You will be able to step back from the subject when using a 240, or 300mm lens for head and shoulders portraits. Not necessary to move close, as with the 121mm lens.

That's the advantage of the longer lens. Try it, and see.

[cjbroadbent]

... You will be able to step back from the subject when using a 240, or 300mm lens for head and shoulders portraits ...
And the subject will appear remote and detached from the viewer.
On the contrary, I would suggest shooting from the distance you would be if you were talking to the subject. I would also dare to suggest that if you include arms and hands you will get more attitude. The 120mm lens might be ok after all.

[Steve M Hostetter]

Try the Grandagon Imagon 250mm 5.8 they can be had pretty cheap and it is a designated portrait lens

[Ben Syverson]

I'm with Christopher... I like half-length portraits. Close-ups of faces tend to be a little too intense for me.

[Armin Seeholzer]

Shoulder and head would work fine with a 210 mm lens and a bit longer of course also!

Just my 2 cents Armin

[Maris Rusis]

There is another way to approach portraits. It does not start with the camera or lens but rather the distance.

When you look at good portraits they often seem to have been taken from the same distance. This is the distance from which two strangers look at each when they are being attentive, interested, engaged, and respectful. They are close but not close enough to invade personal space. At this distance the proportions of the face, the nose to ear ratio, the neck to forehead proportions, and so on, look right. The "face looks right" thing is probably instinctive among humans who are used to looking at other humans.

The distance is about 1.5 metres.

In my studio I set this distance and use a long lens if I want a tight face portrait and a short lens if I want more of the body. This rule seems to work for me irrespective of film, lens, camera, or format.

[cjbroadbent]

....At this distance the proportions of the face, the nose to ear ratio, the neck to forehead proportions, and so on, look right. The "face looks right" thing is probably instinctive among humans who are used to looking at other humans.
The distance is about 1.5 metres....
Maris has it right. Face perspective is something in infant learns in the first few months.

[Nana Sousa Dias]

You can do it with a 210mm lens. Look at this photo:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=44446&page=11

I shot this with a Nikkor W 210/5.6 and a Wista 45 DX, wooden folding camera, wich has shorter bellows than the Shen Hao.
The distance to the subject was about 1.5m, wich is the "right" distance, as refered by Maris.

You can buy a lens like that very cheap. A lot of guys say it's not good, I find it very good, indeed. Well, I'm not an "equipment freak" anyway, probably the lens is not the best in world but, to me, it's quite good and does waht I want it to do...;)

[Ernest Purdum]

There was some confusion here in an earlier response.. Grandagon and Imagon are two different lens names. Assuming the Imagon was that intended, it is a lens that allows control of diffusion. Although many photographers and subjects like this, it is not an essential characteristic of a lens used for portraits.