Delta film base vs tmy base

[Tim k]

I've been trying to learn the developing and printing thing, by sticking to tmy and hc110, just because its easily had in my area, and I'm easily confused.

In some darkroom stuff I bought was a bulk loader full of an unknown quantity, of unknown age, delta 100. So I thought I'd practice with it since its cheap.

Question is, the developed film base is really grey compared to tmy. Did I screw it up, or is it supposed to be that way, or perhaps its older than dirt. I was able to get an image to stick, and it didn't print too bad. With my tmy my print times are 11 seconds or so, with the delta, I was running near a minute.

thanks
Tim K

[Toyon]

It is probably base fog. You may be able to reduce it by adding benzotriazole to the developer.

[Bruce Watson]

Probably not fog. Probably what you are looking at is an overall gray haze, pretty thin but uniform, yes? That's retouching base. It provides some "tooth" for the use of retouching pencils on the back side of the film (actually, it's on both sides). This kind of retouching is a nearly completely lost art. But it was big in the 1930s and 1940s. The Hollywood glam photogs were experts with it.

The retouching base is relatively harmless -- it's a touch of neutral density. Doesn't effect image quality, darkroom printing, or scanning.

Edit: having reread the original post, I got the two backwards. I'm sure that the Kodak films have retouching base. I'm not sure that the Ilford films do. If it's really gray compared to TMY then it probably *is* fogged. If the fogging is uniform however you can still print through it.

[Tim k]

Thanks guys,
Guess I'll try a little more of it. Its a bit like a broken soda dispenser, it just keeps coming out and you never know when its going to stop, probably when I start to like it.

[Bjorn Nilsson]

First, does the pictures look alright (compared to the TMX pictures, but regardless of the different printing times). If so, there's no real problem.
Else, if you look at and compare an unexposed part of both films you can judge if it's fog or not.
As you seem to be printing, set the enlarger to a set height and see to that you get some of the edge instead of the picture itself into focus and in the middle of the framing. Now print the TMX so that the hole is black and the film around it is a tiny bit lighter, say "light black". Note the time.
Now do the same with the Delta film. The time can be 2 or even up to 4 times longer, but not much more, because then the film is damaged.

//Björn

[Vlad Soare]

Question is, the developed film base is really grey compared to tmy.
Is the film actually denser, or you're just concerned about its color? Gray is all right. The base of the Delta is a neutral gray. T-Max is a purplish pink due to all sorts of sensitizing dyes, which should theoretically clear during processing but in fact never seem to.
If you're asking why Delta is gray instead of pink, don't worry, it's normal. :)

[Tim k]

Guys, I decided to upload a picture of three negatives on my light table side by side.
The delta is on top, tmy is bottom right and there is a hp5 on the bottom left.

Please keep in mind that I know just enough to get in trouble. These were all my first attempts and developing and printing. All were done in hc110 by the book "B" times.

VladSoare, the film does seem a lot denser to me.

Bjorn, the printed delta was pretty flat.

I finally got around to exposing and printing a couple of 4x5's on new tmy, and I was pretty happy with the results, so perhaps this is a moot point, as I was using the delta for developing and printing practice.

[ic-racer]

Looks like old film. BTW I have some 72 exposure HP5 from 1983 and it looks like that when I process it.

[sanking]

The Delta 100 looks to have a rather huge amount of B+F. One assumes this is from age, but it could also be from bad (hot) storage conditions. I would say toss it.

Sandy King




Guys, I decided to upload a picture of three negatives on my light table side by side.
The delta is on top, tmy is bottom right and there is a hp5 on the bottom left.

Please keep in mind that I know just enough to get in trouble. These were all my first attempts and developing and printing. All were done in hc110 by the book "B" times.

[Tim k]

Wow, I just got advice from the famous Sandy King. I am honored and humbled. Also going to the garbage right now.

This place is alright !!

[D. Bryant]

The Delta 100 looks to have a rather huge amount of B+F. One assumes this is from age, but it could also be from bad (hot) storage conditions. I would say toss it.

Sandy King

I agree with Sandy. I had some bulk loads of 400 Delta some years back that became fogged just as your scan shows.

Don

[Vlad Soare]

That's fog, all right. My money is on heat, too. I have developed negatives exposed 25 years ago with results ranging from very good to excellent. On the other hand, I once got fog as bad as yours on a negative that had just been bought and wasn't even near its expiration date. Who knows how it had been stored in the shop...
Though I don't have solid data to support this, I believe that storage under hot conditions does much more damage to a film than age does.