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View Full Version : Why do you like Large Format photography? (Philosophy Talk Time)



Mr_Toad
23-Jan-2009, 01:45
All,

My apologies if posted before, but planning a vacation has me pondering.

Question: What is it about Large Format photography that makes you do it? It's not convenient or fast or inexpensive or discrete or any number of things...yet you keep going back....

Caveat: And no, I don't mean in terms of technical debates of LF versus 35 mm or digital, blah, blah, blah...

Example: While taking a Monument Valley 4x5 image some years back, I remember the extensive time I spent composing, setting up, adjusting, deciding, focusinj, bracketing...all while a dozen families zoomed by only to fall out of a rental car, snap-snap-snap-snap, fall back in the car, and off they go without have spent even a minute really seeing the landscape while they are physically a part of it. Each time I now see the resulting print on the wall, it's not just an image I see.. but all the memories I recall from that experience. (...and the cigarette butts I removed from the foreground, so okay I cheated and cleaned the image.) :rolleyes:

Thanks!

Robt.

Vlad Soare
23-Jan-2009, 02:21
Here are the reasons why I got into large format, ordered from the most important to the least:
1. Perspective correction
2. Individual development of every frame
3. Focus plane adjustment
4. Thick and stiff negative - works with glassless carriers better than smaller formats do
5. Big negative

...and the reasons why I sometimes want to quit doing it and to return to my RB67, also from the most important to the least:
1. Dust
2. Dust
3. Dust
4. Doesn't work with moving subjects
5. Price of film

Mr_Toad
23-Jan-2009, 02:41
Thanks, Vlad!

But may I follow-up by asking... are there aspects of the Large Format photographic or artistic experience that you like?

Not to challenge your post, but I'm asking that folks to move away from the technical pros and cons of the equipment, and over to what the actual image capture experience and end product means for them. ...or however they could describe it.

I guess I'm failing to get my point across..... :o

Vlad Soare
23-Jan-2009, 02:57
Yes, I do like the slowness and the contemplative approach, but this is something I can always achieve with the RB67. I use my RB67 in the same manner, and not in point-and-shoot mode, so my switching to large format hasn't changed a thing in this respect.
So, even if I do like the way of seeing and shooting in large format (slow and methodical, that is), I don't find it to be an intrinsic property of large format, and it's not in itself a reason to shoot large format. Not for me, at least.

A good thing about LF is that it forces me to think and to work methodically, while with smaller formats I must fight against a certain tendency of sloppiness. For instance, with my RB67 I often find myself thinking "oh, to hell with that tripod, I'll just shoot handheld this time".
But in most cases I'm able to overcome this impulse and to work with the Mamiya as slowly and methodically as with the 4x5 camera. Besides, I'm not even sure this is specific to large format in general. Give me a Crown with an accurate rangefinder, and I might start point-and-shooting. :)

Vaughn
23-Jan-2009, 03:12
LF (now 8x10) just happens to be the vehicle that allows me to learn about, and improve my ability to see, light. Part of that is the tight connection between what I see, how I can distill that onto the ground glass/film, and then how it is recreated into a "straight" alt process print.

While some of it is tied to the general experience of the time of the photograph, it is more about how I experienced the light at that time. This comes from a simple realization I had many years ago while taking a photo class from a incredible individual. It was not something he directly taught, but all of a sudden I realized that we do not see objects, but instead the light reflecting off objects. From there I walked through the landscape seeing forms the light can create, seemingly independent of the actual objects reflecting the light.

So from that moment (actually a gradual change I suddenly reconized) some 28 years ago, I have been wandering through the landscape enthralled and mystified by the light...using a LF camera and film to encourage my mind's eye to explore this light and making prints as a way to hone what I learn and to share what I have learned with others.

LF is just the best tool I have found to do this.

Vaughn

Vlad Soare
23-Jan-2009, 03:19
Another thing I like about LF, which may marginally relate to the artistic experience you're talking about, is that everything is mechanical and manual. I just love to be able to make all the decisions myself, so that in the end I can look at a photograph and say "I made this. It looks good thanks to my experience and patience, and not to a computer chip".

However, this is not intrinsic to large format. The RB67 is fully manual and fully mechanical, and even in 35mm I only use all-manual, fully mechanical cameras. So this wasn't a reason to go into large format, at least for me. I can always get the same feeling with smaller formats, too.

ljsegil
23-Jan-2009, 04:49
I am a relative newbie to LF, and derive much more pleasure from it than other formats. I think it is the challenge, from seeing before me an image that may potentially compose well on the ground glass, manipulating the camera to best create that image (and no other format is both as difficult and as rewarding as a view camera for this purpose, other formats can produce beautiful images but not with all the potentialities allowed by the movements and film choices permitted by an LF view camera). For me the need to continually learn and improve my technique adds a great deal of satisfaction to the previously simpler act of shooting a picture. Of course the primary reward is an image that pleases me, usually not obtainable by any other photographic technique and superior in quality to what I could have previously achieved. But the simple acts of recognition of an image, acquisition of the image, and ultimate viewing of the image through the challenges presented by the use of LF seem to have recreated photography anew for me, and for that I am very grateful (rudimentary darkroom skill acquisition will be the next addition to the challenge and excitement of LF that no other format would have taken me to).
Ultimately, it simply comes down to that fact that for me LF creates new fun in photography because of the simultaneous challenges and potentials opened up to my (hopefully) growing craft. For my next trip I will be schlepping my full 5x7 kit, and leaving behind my digital, 35mm, and MF kits, even though my results are more reliabe with the latter equipment, because using the 5x7 just gives me a pleasure (while risking the end results) that I do not find shooting the other formats. Given my current skill level, the 5x7 is the riskier proposition (and certainly more troublesome to transport, more isolating from those around me as no one goes on a casual walk to photograph with an LF photographer), but worth the risk for the pleasure to be derived (and hopefully some further, albeit likely small, increment in skill) from the shooting. And with luck, the results will ultimately also justify the extra effort, though at my stage this is actually a secondary goal to simply shooting more LF, whatever the results.
Best,
Larry

Walter Calahan
23-Jan-2009, 05:16
I love 8x10 because it slows me down.

I love the ground glass of an 8x10 because it is a window, not a viewfinder.

I love 8x10 because I meet so many nice people while shooting.

The quality is pretty good, too.

Bill_1856
23-Jan-2009, 06:05
I've been shooting LF for over 60 years, (and except for a few nice Polaroids), have yet to make a significant image with it.
I don't know why I get such enjoyment -- maybe it's just the challange.

MIke Sherck
23-Jan-2009, 07:30
Large format taught me to see. Smaller formats could have, maybe, but they didn't. LF didn't have to, I suppose, but it did.

It works better for me than the smaller formats for many things. Not for everything, but most of the time I reach for a view camera.

If I were a sports or fashion photographer, I'd probably have a different viewpoint. But I'm not, so I don't.

:)

Mike

bspeed
23-Jan-2009, 08:00
Its the challenge of photo-craftsmanship. the movements do encourage one to think differently about the composition.

shadow images
23-Jan-2009, 08:50
The slow pace in an all to fast paced world.

Renato Tonelli
23-Jan-2009, 08:53
It forces you to think about what you are photographing and why. It's more contemplative (for me).

Oren Grad
23-Jan-2009, 09:30
I like big negatives because they let me make big contact prints. Composing and focusing on the big ground glass is a blast. So is playing with funky old cameras in odd formats.

All that other stuff doesn't connect with me at all. Working with a camera that's more logistically taxing doesn't make me any more contemplative or help me see any better or make me feel any more invested in craftsmanship. Using a tripod-based camera that needs to be set up and broken down necessarily slows me down, but I'd just as soon it didn't.

Jim Galli
23-Jan-2009, 10:33
It is the latent possibilities that keep me going. With a digi slr there is only one possibility. Perfectly exposed sharp pictures. That's 15 minutes of fun (and fabulous for showing you pictures of lenses and cameras I've decided to sell in order to buy other lenses and cameras:p ) After that I'm bored. But LF and ULF are a bottomless pit of things to explore. Antique soft focus lenses and the brute force tonality of an 8X10 contact print are a combination that seem endless. After several years I can honestly say I've only just barely scratched the surface. And, apparently, I'm just wired to enjoy looking at the world upside down.

kmack
23-Jan-2009, 10:59
I've been shooting LF for over 60 years, (and except for a few nice Polaroids), have yet to make a significant image with it.
I don't know why I get such enjoyment -- maybe it's just the challange.

Well unlike wilhelm, I have not been shooting LF for 60 years, I simply love the craft involved.

There is an illusion of control you get with LF, but no matter how well you prepare, no matter how consistent you think you are, there are always surprises.

Bruce Watson
23-Jan-2009, 11:02
Question: What is it about Large Format photography that makes you do it? It's not convenient or fast or inexpensive or discrete or any number of things...yet you keep going back....

The only camera I own is a 5x4. I don't keep coming back. It's the only way I have of making photographs.

I use a 5x4 camera because it gives me the tools that let me do what I want. There is much to be said for the control of decoupling the film plane and the lens plane. The bigger film gives me the buttery smooth tonality I want, and the low level of enlargement I want to make the big prints that I want. The control and the film size are a large part of why I work this way.

The biggest part of why I photograph with a view camera is that it encourages me to think about what I'm trying to do *before* I try to do it. I can't walk a scene with the camera stuck to my face "framing with my feet" using a view camera. I have to walk the scene *without* the camera first and decide where the proper perspective is, for what I want to capture, all before I setup on it. This, I think, is an extraordinarily good thing. This can lead to art.

As Dorothea Lange said:"The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera."

Didn't happen with 35mm for me. Did happen with a view camera. Which is why the only camera I own now is a view camera.

photographs42
23-Jan-2009, 11:03
My first reaction to 4x5 was “WOW! I can see with both eyes what I’m trying to photograph.” With other formats I felt like I was “Peeking” through a peephole with one eye. With large format I can actually look at the image.

About 15 years ago I was looking at my proof prints and started thinking that with many of them, I should have known that I wasn’t going to do anything with them. Thereafter, when I have everything ready, before I put the film holder in, I take one last look and ask myself “If this image is as good as I think it might be, am I going to print it?” Very often the answer is “Well, it’s the best thing I’ve seen all day but it really isn’t all that good.” And I don’t make the negative, even though I might have just spent 30 minutes to an hour working it out. The amazing thing I found is that I enjoy the experience almost as much as when I make the negative. I never had that experience with smaller formats.

Jerome

Daniel_Buck
23-Jan-2009, 11:06
To me, the process of shooting large format is relaxing. I've spent less money on large format than I have 35mm digital, so it's not more expensive (for me anyway). And I never really bracket my exposures (but then again I'm shooting only B&W). I've only just started shooting large format, about 1 1/2 years ago.

Brian Ellis
23-Jan-2009, 11:32
I originally became involved with LF photography because of the better quality prints, the ability to use movements to control the plane of focus and the shape of objects, and because of the ability to develop each image indivicually. Those reasons have pretty much disappeared as digital evolves and improves. But I continue with large format (though to a far less extent than formerly) because I've come to enjoy the whole process of making photographs that way, particularly viewing and composing on the ground glass. Also when I make a good photograph I have the personal satisfaction of knowing that I made the photograph myself, I didn't just fire off 10 versions of the same photograph and then pick the best one later.

shmoo
23-Jan-2009, 11:48
Large format taught me to see. Smaller formats could have, maybe, but they didn't. LF didn't have to, I suppose, but it did.

It works better for me than the smaller formats for many things. Not for everything, but most of the time I reach for a view camera.

If I were a sports or fashion photographer, I'd probably have a different viewpoint. But I'm not, so I don't.

:)

Mike

You got me thinking here. I'd have to agree with everyone on the technical as well as the psychological advantages of larger formats, but Mike's statement got me thinking. Using a large format camera has made my smaller format work better as well...

nathanm
23-Jan-2009, 12:02
Large format allows you to dump all resources into the Quality part of "Quantity vs. Quality" and allows a rare single choice in the "Good, Fast, Cheap" equation. Although if you compare it to digital medium format backs then Good\Cheap works, but overall it's not very cheap, it's just good.

The sad part is that nobody seems to have the willpower to artificially apply the much-praised working limitations of large format to other formats. It is entirely possible to go into the field and only shoot 8 carefully taken pictures in a day with a digital camera, but it never happens. You come back with a card full of crap and then you sift out whatever good stuff is there. Something like 'shooting expands to fill the format allotted' must be at work I suspect.

But mostly, LF cameras don't have menus, buttons, cruddy video viewfinders and they don't need batteries. Well, one's meter does. Can't have everything I guess. They smell better too.

darr
23-Jan-2009, 12:11
For me it is truly the marriage of technical and artistry.
It forces me to stop and smell the roses.

h2oman
23-Jan-2009, 12:32
I used 35mm transparency film for 20+ years, off and on. Then nothing for a few years. Then another 35mm camera, followed by a water-resistant digital P&S that worked well around and slightly under fresh water, but I killed it in the ocean. Another short dry spell, then bought a DSLR two years ago. It was fun and I learned a lot, but a year ago I bought a 4x5 to shoot more color transparency film. Now I'm gearing up to develop my own B&W film, having never developed film in my life. I feel like I'm doing everything backward, but I want to experience all the things that you vets out there have been doing for (in some cases many) years. Kind of re-living the evolution of photography backward! I guess what I like about LF is I want a full, deep photographic experience, and I feel like LF is the best way to get it.

sanking
23-Jan-2009, 13:12
This has been my experience as well. I started working with LF cameras for several reasons, but the primary benfit to my photography was that the slower method of working, and viewing the image on the ground glass, helped me to see in a way that I had not seen before. That gave a creative boost to my work. Then, from a technical perspective the ability to selectively expose and develop one sheet of film at a time was liberating in that it gave me the ability to make images in very difficult lighting conditions.

In many ways I have been able to transfer these creative and technical abilities, which were honed in LF, to other types of cameras, including MF rangefinders and digital. I would say for sure that of all the cameras I have used the the LF ones taught me the most, both about creativity and technique.

Sandy King



You got me thinking here. I'd have to agree with everyone on the technical as well as the psychological advantages of larger formats, but Mike's statement got me thinking. Using a large format camera has made my smaller format work better as well...

KEK
23-Jan-2009, 13:37
I have to agree with Mike , Schmoo and Sandy. I started with a 5 x 7 a couple of years ago for a project that I felt needed the quality and creative possabilities of LF. It's been very frustrating at times but it has taught me alot that has carried over to my MF both creatively and technically.

Kevin

Rob_5419
23-Jan-2009, 15:32
My apologies if posted before, but planning a vacation has me pondering.

Question: What is it about Large Format photography that makes you do it? It's not convenient or fast or inexpensive or discrete or any number of things...yet you keep going back....

Caveat: And no, I don't mean in terms of technical debates of LF versus 35 mm or digital, blah, blah, blah...

What sort of vacation are you planning that has you thinking this way?

Since retiring a few years ago, I really looked forward to large format work. I thought I'd like it more, with more time to enjoy it - no commercial pressures and no client pressures after a lifetime of working with 8x10" format and seeing the industry contract down to APS digital sensor size.

If I wanted a format to slow me down, then maybe I would have asked for arthritis earlier.
If I wanted a format which would let me see an 8x10" window, then I would have just got an illuminated LCD screen without squinting into the corners.
If I wanted to meet people, I'd hang out more at the local conservative club. Or if I was really sad, just look up the lonely hearts ads.
If I wanted to think more about photography, maybe I would just stay on Erwin Putts' 35mm format homepages.
If I wanted to relax more, I'd probably get out and shoot more LF images, instead of talking about them.

Is there a good reason for large format, apart from nostalgia?

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be. Since retiring, it's not been large format all the way. Anyone want to buy a Gandolfi half-plate camera?

Still looking for a reason to enjoy LF after all this time.

cjbroadbent
23-Jan-2009, 15:51
In the sixties it was 'like it or lump it'. We shot 35mm for fun and pleasure and 8x10 on our day job. Now it's the other way round.

Bob McCarthy
23-Jan-2009, 16:00
To me it's all about real estate. That big sheet of film has more inherent quality for the buck than any other approach. It's really inexpensive unless you shoot an awful lot (I'm mostly B&W) and the latest technology has yet to come close one shot in spite of digital fans saying otherwise.


Medium format digital comes closest but at what price?? Digital is coming closer and closer and someday will haul down the old girl, but at the present she still has time in her...

bob

jnantz
23-Jan-2009, 16:33
it isn't so much the "takes a long time to set up, contemplate the scene, and take 30 spot meter readings " for me, but more the interaction i get to have with whoever, or whatever my subject might be. i also find it easier to print a bullet-proof large format negative than a smaller format negative the same amount of bullet-proofishness ...

Ken Lee
23-Jan-2009, 18:03
Awareness

David Karp
23-Jan-2009, 18:50
I think it is fun. I really like to see the potential photo on the GG.

I can make my photos instead of taking them. Carrying the larger and harder to carry camera makes me think harder about whether my idea for a photo is worthwhile.

I don't really think that the word "contemplative" works for me. I think that for me, the word is "intense." I think harder about the photo. Then, I have so many more options available than with a smaller camera. Rise, tilts, swings, all may have a place in the photograph. They allow me to make the photo that I want. I feel more involved with the photograph. It is more a product of my imagination than photographs with smaller, non-adjustable cameras.

LF work requires a lot more thought than I put into photographs with a smaller camera. And I have had the experience of using a smaller camera, all the while wishing I had the bigger one available to make the photo! On the other hand, I can just bang away and hope I get something good when I have a hand held camera. That can be fun too. But I find that since taking up LF, I make fewer exposures with the smaller cameras too.

As already mentioned, having the bigger camera in the field really pays off in the darkroom as well. The results seem to be well worth the effort, and with a higher "hit" rate than with the smaller cameras.

Of course, there is a place for all sizes and varieties of camera. It would never occur to me to use my 4x5 to photograph my kids at karate. (Well, unless I get a rangefinder for my Crown. :) )

Steve M Hostetter
23-Jan-2009, 19:29
I know as I gain more experiance with shooting I'm suppose to play down the love affare with the equipment.. In my mind the love affare is with my subject and that can sometimes demand my undivided attention therefore it's easy for one to get ahead of oneself.. You couln't no more pick up an LF camera for the first time and expect to know it anymore then you could expect to play a guitar for the first time..
So to that I say,,, practice,practice,practice nothing really good comes easy and I think LF is a good example of that.. No for me the love affare with the equipment was over when I got the ugly camera and it was the image produced that I became obsessed with,,, ever since that first 4x5 image of a covered bridge I knew this camera was for me.. so I got an 8x10 :D

Bruce Watson
23-Jan-2009, 19:48
Awareness

That's what I like about you Ken. Absolutely articulate and utterly succinct. What you said is that I meant, but it took me a (whole) lot more words to get it out. Sigh...

Mark Sawyer
23-Jan-2009, 22:19
I think it has something to do with what one of the Ents said in "Lord of the Rings".

"It takes a long time to say something in Old Entish, and we never say anything unless it's worth taking a long time to say."

That, and other formats just don't give me enough dust spots on my negatives...

Mike V
24-Jan-2009, 11:49
I enjoy 5x4 for many of the reasons already stated in this thread. The ability to get nice large prints with an amazing quality and aesthetic to them. 5x4 allows me to slow down and look at the world differently. Many times when out photographing I wonder what a scene might look like if it was visually corrected via 5x4.

The styles of printing can be great, cyanotype etc. Lets not forget that darkroom magic when an image appears in front of you! Or the suspense when you finally pull a sheet of negs from the fix to see if they made it!

The only thing I dont like is the cost. Its a shame it costs a lot because in a way thats my only limiting factor.

bvstaples
24-Jan-2009, 23:11
For me it's the zen-like pursuit of the image...

I live my life - my job, kids, volunteer efforts - in a very hectic, fast paced manner. LF allows me to slow down, to contempate, to reflect on a view of the world only avaliable on a ground glass.

To some respect I get the same thing from my MFs (RBs and TLRs), but my 4x5 is joyous, and 8x10 is, well, just freakin' awesome. I can only imagine what ULF is like (someday...).


Brian

arca andy
26-Jan-2009, 02:40
Upside down images, the weight of the camera, cost of the film etc, etc. Large format is a frustrating way to take photographs. But when it all comes together and you hit that sweet spot of exposure and composition there is no other camera format, there are no digital methods that can achieve the those stunning results you see on the lightbox, making your heart skip a beat.

And the funny thing is that those other camera formats with their mirrors, lightweight bodies and digital function are even more frustrating than large format. You will get the exposure right and the can shot many more photos to get that composition correct but you never get the qualilty of image, you will never take the best photos of your life unless you are using large format, and thats why I keep coming back to it.

All sounds a bit serious and i do like my Canon D40:)
Great thread

Laurent
26-Jan-2009, 08:47
I started LF for the higher quality and because I needed something else than 35mm to grow my photography.

What I really like is that it slows me down, and at the end costs me less as I have more keepers and shoot less.

Rakesh Malik
26-Jan-2009, 13:46
For me it's a combination of the Zen-like process of crafting a photograph with a view camera and the ability to create large, vibrant, detailed prints from them to share with others :)

Michael Graves
26-Jan-2009, 14:16
I like the comments that come my way when shooting. Like:

"Haven't you ever heard of digital?"

"Does that send emails?"

"What'cha doin'? Takin a pitcher?"

"I thought choo guys surveyed this road LAST year!"

Bruce Watson
26-Jan-2009, 14:53
I like the comments that come my way when shooting. Like:

"Haven't you ever heard of digital?"

"Does that send emails?"

"What'cha doin'? Takin a pitcher?"

"I thought choo guys surveyed this road LAST year!"

"Is that a Hasselblad?"

When I get one of "those" questions and I'm in a position to do it, I try to show people, especially kids, the view through the ground glass. Freaks 'em out. Gets them thinking about photography (well, I can dream can't I?).

sanking
26-Jan-2009, 15:17
When I was setting up my 5X7 cameras some years ago someone actually asked me, is that a digital camera?



Sandy




I like the comments that come my way when shooting. Like:

"Haven't you ever heard of digital?"

arca andy
27-Jan-2009, 03:52
I get 'What you filming, mate?' or 'Am I going to be on TV?'
You always get someone coming up for a chat once you have set up your LF camera..which is mostly nice...

ljsegil
27-Jan-2009, 04:46
Getting a good digital image may perhaps sometimes be a random event (can probably be modeled as a stochastic probability based largely on number of shutter firings, uncontrolled electronic variations by the camera, and likelihood of your aunt wandering into the background as you snap) that does not always reflect or necessarily require that any care or unusual skill be put into the shot, while a good LF image always requires at least a little more than luck; the better ones always result from a lot more craft than chance (though if only we could make the light happen just as we want when we want!).

Not to deny the importance of talent in producing good digital photography, it can play as large a role in any format or type of imaging, but I think LF lacks the random possibilities of a lucky shot enabled by the opportunity to just fire until the card is full and trust that sometime the scene and the electronics have fortuitously coincided to produce a good image; rather the process of producing a good large format image requires that skill, effort, and care go into every shot and the importance of random variations introduced that are beyond the photographer's control are minimized (damn wind and blowing clouds!) compared to relying on the likelihood of a good image increasing as the number of shots increases.

Fatuously yours,
LJS

colker
27-Jan-2009, 04:56
I used 35mm transparency film for 20+ years, off and on. Then nothing for a few years. Then another 35mm camera, followed by a water-resistant digital P&S that worked well around and slightly under fresh water, but I killed it in the ocean. Another short dry spell, then bought a DSLR two years ago. It was fun and I learned a lot, but a year ago I bought a 4x5 to shoot more color transparency film. Now I'm gearing up to develop my own B&W film, having never developed film in my life. I feel like I'm doing everything backward, but I want to experience all the things that you vets out there have been doing for (in some cases many) years. Kind of re-living the evolution of photography backward! I guess what I like about LF is I want a full, deep photographic experience, and I feel like LF is the best way to get it.
man... i developed and printed my BW work for .. 20yrs. I can't stand the chemistry anymore. when i found digital, i was in heaven; till i got fed up w/ the constant obsolescence of computers, cameras and worse: fragility of the files.
otoh i was always intrigued by Avedon's portraits on Lage format. There is some stone like permanence in those pictures. I never thought i could work w/ those dynamics. NOw i will try it.

colker
27-Jan-2009, 05:07
Getting a good digital image may perhaps sometimes be a random event (can probably be modeled as a stochastic probability based largely on number of shutter firings, uncontrolled electronic variations by the camera, and likelihood of your aunt wandering into the background as you snap) that does not always reflect or necessarily require that any care or unusual skill be put into the shot, while a good LF image always requires at least a little more than luck; the better ones always result from a lot more craft than chance (though if only we could make the light happen just as we want when we want!).

Not to deny the importance of talent in producing good digital photography, it can play as large a role in any format or type of imaging, but I think LF lacks the random possibilities of a lucky shot enabled by the opportunity to just fire until the card is full and trust that sometime the scene and the electronics have fortuitously coincided to produce a good image; rather the process of producing a good large format image requires that skill, effort, and care go into every shot and the importance of random variations introduced that are beyond the photographer's control are minimized (damn wind and blowing clouds!) compared to relying on the likelihood of a good image increasing as the number of shots increases.

Fatuously yours,
LJS
There is always an element of chance, always an unplanned happening in Photography. It's the beauty of it: to reveal something you didn't know.
if you are doing LF to stay away from chance and unpredictability you are missing on photography's best qualities.
Be it weston or bresson or one of us.. a good picture is not made in your mind; it happens in front of camera.
that's the humble virtue of photographers. We can never be sure we will take the great shot.

jb7
27-Jan-2009, 05:30
I was taking a picture on the street in Dublin last year, and a young guy came up to me and asked "is that a 4x5?"

Odd for two reasons, firstly, he referred to it in the American way, and not 5x4,
and secondly, he was the first person who correctly identified the thing at all-

I've had all the other questions too-

Anyway, I answered him, and he immediately took off, as if embarrassed that he knew too much...

Steve M Hostetter
27-Jan-2009, 07:24
that was me:D

Vlad Soare
27-Jan-2009, 07:48
I was in Vienna with my CC-400 a couple of months ago, and people usually didn't give a damn about it. Only once did someone approach me and said "I haven't seen a 4x5 in a long time. What are you shooting? Ektachromes, or black and white?" :)
He was an American tourist. Locals couldn't care less about my camera (which suited me just fine). :)


Getting a good digital image may perhaps sometimes be a random event (can probably be modeled as a stochastic probability based largely on number of shutter firings, uncontrolled electronic variations by the camera, and likelihood of your aunt wandering into the background as you snap) that does not always reflect or necessarily require that any care or unusual skill be put into the shot, while a good LF image always requires at least a little more than luck; the better ones always result from a lot more craft than chance (though if only we could make the light happen just as we want when we want!).
I don't know, I'm not very sure about this. Cartier-Bresson, no matter how lucky he may have been at one time or another, couldn't have made those extraordinary images based on luck alone. It was definitely a lot more craft than chance. Knowing how to approach your subject, how to anticipate his or her actions, how to anticipate what his or her relation to the other elements in the frame will be in a few moments, how to release the shutter at precisely the right moment, not a split second earlier or later, is at least as difficult, if not more, than operating a view camera and chasing the perfect light.
The same about Robert Capa - it's not enough to go to war with a Leica and rely on luck. He's had his share of luck, I agree, but ultimately it was his craft that allowed him to take those pictures.

cobalt
27-Jan-2009, 07:49
I like it because it is better than digital capture.
Sorry, cap'n... that last photon torepedo completely took out are poliitical correction shields! She'll be down for at least 4 hours!

Brian_A
27-Jan-2009, 09:12
I like it because it makes me think more about what I'm shooting. I don't just point, click and, hope for a decent shot. Since I generally shoot things that don't move nor speak back to me, it works for what I want. Plus I can use it to shoot 6x17 instead of having to spend $10k on a Linhof. Multiple formats for one price is nice. I do use my digital for specific things, but I enjoy my 4x5 far more. I find it's a bit more relaxing going through the steps to make a photograph.

sgelb
27-Jan-2009, 18:24
taking portraits with an 8x10 involves the subject more than any other camera.. thats why I love it.

I also think the depth is unmatched by anything digital.

also, certain films, I just love to work with.. I think they produce amazing results.. better than any digital could do:

160 VC and NC
TXP 320 (sick range of black to white)
Ektachrome 64 and 64 x (i especially love 64x when I can find it, I think it beats velvia hands down)
EPP
provia 100

Marko
27-Jan-2009, 20:30
Life is fast. It's nice to have something to slow it down, occasionally.

But as all things in life, LF can have many faces - I am fairly certain that a 100-meter-long print (http://www.simonhoegsberg.com/we_are_all_gonna_die/slider.html) took long enough to create and should qualify as LF regardless of the type of camera he used.

Kirk Gittings
27-Jan-2009, 20:30
At the risk of sounding like a complete nut....... I have always found it very similar to a religious experience (when things are really clicking). It is a very similar experience to deep meditative prayer, like performing Gregorian Chants in a monastery (something I was into a lifetime ago). It makes you present and aware....exhilarating. The aesthetic revelations are as personally profound as any religious revelation.

Michael Wynd
27-Jan-2009, 22:14
I agree with everything Walter said
Mike

Tony Karnezis
28-Jan-2009, 02:17
At the risk of sounding like a complete nut....... I have always found it very similar to a religious experience (when things are really clicking). It is a very similar experience to deep meditative prayer, like performing Gregorian Chants in a monastery (something I was into a lifetime ago). It makes you present and aware....exhilarating. The aesthetic revelations are as personally profound as any religious revelation.

Nuts love company Kirk. I feel more alive when I'm making a photograph with the 8x10. For me, it's also about the purity of the experience. It's like the difference between hunting with a shotgun or a bow and arrow. Playing music on a synthesizer or a grand piano. And then there's the result--there's nothing like the sharpness and smooth tones that a large negative affords. Once I saw some 8x10 contact prints I was hooked. When it all comes together there's simply nothing like it.

joolsb
28-Jan-2009, 03:38
It's funny, I can go out with my digital compact and take a few, carefully-composed frames but I don't derive anything like the pleasure from the results that I do with my LF images. It's the same on the odd occcasion I take the 645 Mamiya out for a spin - even though the trusty Mamiya has helped me create some of my all-time favourite images. And then there's the sad fact that I start to have cravings for LF if I haven't done any for a while.... :eek: :o

As for what I like about it: it's the process, the detail you can achieve, the fact that DoF is no longer simply a function of aperture and focal-length but also depends on the ability to place a plane of focus. All these things and the thrill of seeing an image snap into focus on the ground glass, knowing that what you are seeing is precisely what is going to be recorded on the film. Nothing else in photography comes close.

ljsegil
28-Jan-2009, 04:36
I think the above sentiments capture it nicely. We are the farthest fringe (nut cases, perhaps) on the very large tapestry of photography, almost secretly and obsessively deriving a special pleasure, unknown to most who photograph, from using the most difficult but rewarding processes to obtain images that could not exist without the quantitatively and qualitatively greater time and effort invested in the craft and forced on us by our format choices. We have basically chosen to forgo the technical advances of the last century or so to achieve images subtly finer (to our eyes, hopefully also to those of others), requiring the greatest rigor to capture and choosing not to avail ourselves of the greater ease of capture that modern technology can provide.

I guess that is saying that we are all a bit nuts, but hopefully happily so. At least I know I am, having been thoroughly captivated by my new found passion for the challenges and possibilities of ever eventually achieving any degree of mastery of large format photography.

It's just fun out here on the edge (hopefully of better art and the greater joy of trying to achieve it, though the edge might perhaps be just of the abyss).

Once more yours in verbose redundancy,
Larry

I should probably make a policy for myself never to write at this hour and before the first cup of coffee. I'm sure the forum would agree with so sensible a resolution, but unfortunately sense has never been my long suit (hence LF, I guess, just another symptom of the greater malady).
LJS

cobalt
28-Jan-2009, 06:10
At the risk of sounding like a complete nut....... I have always found it very similar to a religious experience (when things are really clicking). It is a very similar experience to deep meditative prayer, like performing Gregorian Chants in a monastery (something I was into a lifetime ago). It makes you present and aware....exhilarating. The aesthetic revelations are as personally profound as any religious revelation.


Aaahhhhmm naaahhmm nobius copus largugious formatusssss......

Aaahhhhmm naaahhmm nobius copus largugious formatusssss......

Aaahhhhmm naaahhmm nobius copus largugious formatusssss......

MIke Sherck
28-Jan-2009, 08:08
Aaahhhhmm naaahhmm nobius copus largugious formatusssss......

Aaahhhhmm naaahhmm nobius copus largugious formatusssss......

Aaahhhhmm naaahhmm nobius copus largugious formatusssss......

Can you do that while huddled under the focusing cloth (thus looking a lot like a Gregorian monk?) Can you get three or four buddies to do that, too? Can we get you guys to smack yourselves in the forehead with a film holder occasionally?

Can you post a video to YouTube?

:)

Mike

bvstaples
28-Jan-2009, 14:06
I like the comments that come my way when shooting. Like:

"Haven't you ever heard of digital?"

"Does that send emails?"

"What'cha doin'? Takin a pitcher?"

"I thought choo guys surveyed this road LAST year!"

I was going to mention in my post that my LF cameras are chick magnets, but thought I should keep it a little more ethereal than that. But now that you mentioned it, shooting with a VC, especially in crowded public places like the public park (Balboa Park in San Diego, in my case), is a great conversation starter. And I think I've actually reverted a few folks from digital to film...

Steve M Hostetter
29-Jan-2009, 15:35
I do it for the funny looking notch up in the right hand corner

PenGun
29-Jan-2009, 21:03
I'm a terrible photographer and LF gives me far less to toss.

Andrew
29-Jan-2009, 23:42
I'm a terrible photographer and LF gives me far less to toss.

I can go one better....

I'm a gear freak and the vast range possibilities in large format keep so totally distracted with the equipment that I no longer have to waste time actually taking photographs to enjoy myself !!!

;)

Gary L. Quay
31-Jan-2009, 02:05
The first time I looked at Ansel Adams' "Clearing Winter Storm," and saw the detail on the branches of the far away trees, I knew that I wanted to shoot LF. I like the sharpness and perspective control.

Leonard Metcalf
31-Jan-2009, 04:24
Slows me down

Each shot costs, therefore it has to be right

Upside down and back the front (helps with my composition as it helps me remove myself from the initial framing )

Movements - controlling the film plane, perspective and plane of focus (which I have trouble living without)

Handmade cameras & choice of lenses

Choice of films

Huge ground glass image

Keeps me fit with a heavy pack

Format ( I love the 4 x 5 image ratio )

Minimal electronics and reliance on technology.. (compared to the digital)

To be different from other photographers

Technical competence & challenge is rewarding for me

Size: the image size and prints are stunning (size matters to me)

Suits my favorite subjects (figures and landscape)

Enjoyment and love for my camera and the process (it puts me into a flow state = happiness)

Image quality

Price = cost per shot

Control of image (perspective, image shape and depth of field)

Can choose each film based on the shot, not what is loaded in the camera... and can develop accordingly...

I love my large format cameras.... particularly wood ones

The novelty factor... great conversation starter (which leads to sales tool)

Large format taught me to see differently

Large negatives = huge files = huge prints

Makes me use a tripod... I avoid tripods with with hand held cameras despite the advantages of them (even my hand holdable large format cameras)

Nostalgia

Have you ever seen a large format trannie?

To be different

Contemplation

Beauty

Control

The large format community is unique

More time to enjoy the subject

Fewer files and negatives, less photographs to contemplate

Higher success rates

The smell of fixer and developers

Graphmatics (why didn't someone tell me how wonderful they are)

Beautiful places (ok this is just an association as I always take the largest camera I can carry "as Ansel proclaimed")

Large, stunning, detailed prints that can talk with subtlety, intimidate-ness, depth and delicateness

The ability to create timeless images (again my own personal association)

Len