best handheld 4x5 camera?

[sgelb]

any reccos? speed graphic? crown graphic?


thinking linhof just way too expensive and heavy for me.

[Kirk Fry]

crown k

[dsphotog]

I enjoy my 4x5 Crown. They have that classic look,(it won't intimidate people if you are doing street photography), are common on the market, quite affordable, & light weight. They also close nicely with the lens mounted.
If you shoot handheld, I'd choose a top rangefinder model, with the original 135mm lens & the 6 shot Grafmatic film back, with 320 or 400 speed film.
Happy shooting!
David Silva
Modesto, Ca

[bbjorkum]

Polaroid 900 Razzle with a 150/5.6. Extremely fast. Extremely light. Extremely small.
Graflex Speed Graphic with a 178/2.5. Painstakingly calibrated for delicate hand held work at full opening.
And pretty soon a Graflex Super D with a modern 210/5.6 in a custom made automatic diaphragm.

[akalai]

Hard to answer your question without knowing what lenses you plan on using and for what purpose but if you like wide angle lenses then a Fotoman 45PS would be an option definitely worth considering. Don't own one... yet... but it handles a little like an oversize Hassy SWC which I love!

Fotoman 45PS
http://www.fotomancamera.com/product_list.asp?id=335 (http://www.fotomancamera.com/product_list.asp?id=335)

Plenty of information on the above link about this camera and a quick search of this forum will also reward you.... here is a link to a google search of this forum for the "Fotoman 45PS";
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=fotoman+45ps+site%3Awww.largeformatphotography.info%2Fforum&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq= (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=fotoman+45ps+site%3Awww.largeformatphotography.info%2Fforum&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=)

[Walter Calahan]

Crown!

[jnantz]

either a speed graphic, or a series d (slr).

[Bill_1856]

Busch Pressman model D, or Crown Graphic.
The Busch has a really horrible optical viewfinder, while the Crown has to be turned sideways for a vertical shot.

[kirkmacatangay]

I like the Cambo MiniPortrait that I modified, but I do agree that the Crown may be the most bang for the buck.

[Jim Jones]

I like my B&J Press for its rotating back and older Speed Graphics for almost everything else. The Crown is a bit lighter and more compact than its contemporary SG.

[BradS]

I have both a crown graphic and a fotoman 45ps. both are fantastic handheld cameras. each has its pros and cons. the crown is fantastic for ordinary, every day snap shots but, for the short focal lengths, the fotoman cannot be beat.

[Kuzano]

Let's see

Pros

Revolving back
Cammed rangefinder (cams tricky to find)
All the movements of the Crown
Some extra hidden front movements
large lens boards...(compared to the Busch D)
Front bed drop

Cons

Heavy... but lighter than a Busch D
electronic shutter mechanism quite often not working... use remote cable.
nice ones often overpriced

[Frank Petronio]

Late model top-rangefinder Crown Graphic with a stock 135 lens and six-sheet Grafmatic holders.

[Michael Alpert]

Compared with a medium-format Fuji, Mamiya, Rollei, or Hasselblad (SWD), I don't think any 4x5 is very good hand-held. One is confronted with awkward film holders, a relatively short depth-of field, no easy-to-use rangefinder (or no rangefinder at all), and more weight. Viewfinders in smaller cameras are more accurate and are easier to use (I wear eyeglasses). A camera like the SWC can be used as a point-and-shoot. I have a Fotoman 4x5, which I like but do not love for the reasons I've listed. Then again, my kind of subject-matter calls for a tripod-held camera, even in situations where a tripod is unfeasible; so take what I'm posting with that caveat in mind.

[Daniel_Buck]

I've had pretty good luck with using a speedgraphic 4x5 for hand held stuff, I've taken it to a few race car track events, as well as just general shooting. It's nice, but not as fast or easy to use as a medium format or 35mm SLR or range finder with roll film.

[dsphotog]

Speed Graphic cameras were used handheld for thousands of military photos, WWII through the sixties.
Lotsa great news photos too!

[Jim Graves]

As dsphotog says ... Speed Graphics took the famous Hindenburg and Iwo Jima flag raising photos. Among other venues, I've used mine at a local outdoor volleyball tournament, bike race, and just general shooting ... works great.

While using mine, I've had no fewer than 10 people come up to me and ask me if that is a Speed Graphic and then proceeded to tell me all about their experience with them in the military or with a law enforcement agency.

There are thousands of them out there, new lens boards are available cheap on ebay, parts are available, you can shoot regular 4x5 film holders, grafmatic 6 loads, or roll film (6x6, 6x7 and 6x9 formats) ... and, I've used from 90mm to 15" (380mm) lenses ... even a 500mm with limited success. And, if you want to do flash ... the flash attachments and even the bulbs are available.

They are quite a bit heavier than the Crowns (which I also use) ... but having the focal plane shutter with the extra speed for action shots and the ability to use barrel lenses is a real plus.

[Vick Vickery]

Durn...kinda like asking "whats the best woman?"...everybody has their own idea!! :)

[Steve Hamley]

A Mamiya 6 7, or 7II. If you're going to handhold it, there's not much reason to shoot 4x5.

Cheers,

Steve

[sgelb]

this will be specifically for portraiture.

I am leaning more and more towards a razzle or 110B conversion, but havent ruled out a speed or crown. I could care less about 120. I have a rollei thats just as sharp as a mamiya 7 and more compact, I want the quality and depth that 4x5 brings.

what are the main differences between a speed and a crown graphic?

[Frank Petronio]

The Speed has a focal plane shutter which means you can mount shutterless lenses like the popular Aero Ektar (Google David Burnett)(and it has 1/1000th for wide open shooting). However it is heavier and more complex.

I like the later top rangefinder Crowns, I think their rangefinder is the best of the lot.

You can find a longer lens and a rangefinder cam for the Crown, like a 203 Ektar or a nice Xenar.

[nolindan]

this will be specifically for portraiture.

Then you would want a Speed over a Crown. The difference between the two is that the Speed has a focal plane shutter and can be used with barrel lenses (lenses without a shutter).

So a Speed will let you use all sorts of interesting soft-focus portrait lenses like the Petzval (the current 'rage' lens) and many old brass lenses and home-made lenses, pin-holes and zone-plates.

[Bill_1856]

FYI: Weights of the Sper and Crown Graphics, and Busch Pressman (w/o lens) are very close 4#12 on to 5#. The Speed Graphic and Linhof Technika are just about one pound more (6#), and the Technika lenses tend to be larger and heavier.

[Daniel_Buck]

Then you would want a Speed over a Crown. The difference between the two is that the Speed has a focal plane shutter and can be used with barrel lenses (lenses without a shutter).

So a Speed will let you use all sorts of interesting soft-focus portrait lenses like the Petzval (the current 'rage' lens) and many old brass lenses and home-made lenses, pin-holes and zone-plates.

I use my speed for a few smaller petzvals and other shutterless 'home made' lenses, works great!

[Bob Salomon]

FYI: Weights of the Sper and Crown Graphics, and Busch Pressman (w/o lens) are very close 4#12 on to 5#. The Speed Graphic and Linhof Technika are just about one pound more (6#), and the Technika lenses tend to be larger and heavier.

Not if you use the same lenses on the Technika! Or the Wista RF!

[sgelb]

i just got a crown with a 203 optar and a zeiss 196mm jena f/9... the second doesnt look like it has a shutter.. i think i sell the body and buy a top RF speed too..

[Henry Carter]

You ask for the best, yet you start by eliminating Linhof from the list.

The current production 4X5 Linhof Master Technika Classic, with matched and cammed lenses, is without peer. I have been using mine, often hand-held, since 2000, and the results can be breathtaking.

The Master Technika is really two cameras in one - a hand-held press camera, and a full featured technical camera with full movements when used on a tripod.

Such versatility, superb engineering, and outstanding craftsmanship are not cheap, but then again you asked about the best.

[Ole Tjugen]

Bigger is better - so the 5x7" Linhof Technika. :D

<---------- see avatar

[Oren Grad]

And why not include Horseman FA? ...operates same as Master Technica.

The Horseman 45FA doesn't have a rangefinder. Completely different animal so far as hand-held use is concerned.

[mandoman7]

I have a nice later model Crown and would add my vote for it as a good hand-held candidate. Regarding the Speed vs Crown question, I don't know for sure but I had the impression the the focal plane shutters were somewhat innaccurate and that people often ended up using the lens' shutters. Just a vague recollection...

Shooting-wise, though, thought should be given to the look you're going for and whether its really format dependent. The out of focus qualities of the larger formats are hard to replicate, but maybe the story needs more clarity. In those situations, I've had good luck with a 50mm lens in 2 1/4 SQ, using a "speed grip"(at things like parades). I had a whole show of shots I did in about 45 minutes years ago. A sharp and quick outfit.
Conversely I've shot farmworker portraits full length in 8x10 and the out of focus areas were incredible. The point being that the right tool is the one that best lets the subject tell the story, IMO.

JY

[Ernest Purdum]

Four pages and only one mention of the Grafles SLR's. They are easier to hold than the "press camera" types, have focal-plane shutters and focus by groundglass, no going back and forth between range and view finders.

[Gordon Flodders]

Watch this first: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI_NCBxZuho&feature=related
The model is very expressive :D

[bbjorkum]

I recollect that Noah Schwartz once mounted a Polaroid 110B rangefinder on top of a Speed Graphic. That would speed up the Speed Graphic.

[mandoman7]

Watch this first: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI_NCBxZuho&feature=related
The model is very expressive :D

Typical photographer. Absorbed with equipment issues-leaving the subject to blow in the wind. Who knows how much better the shot would have been if he had taken a moment to understand her discomfort? Instead, a very sharp photo of a completely bored girl.

JY

[Gordon Flodders]

Instead, a very sharp photo of a completely bored girl.
JY

She looks completely at ease, wish I could find such a happy go lucky gal.

[cobalt]

I just realized (really... didn't understand this before) that the Pacemaker Speed Graphic's Kalart rangefinder can be adjusted to synchronize with more than one focal length. I just calibrated mine to sync with a 152mm Ektar. If I can do it... anybody can. Please forgive the streaks... sloppy developement due directly to level of anticipatory excitement at the prospect of actually being able to shoot 4x5 hand held.


Still have to get used to the composition thingy though...

[Frank Petronio]

I must have ADD, I never could get one of those adjusted well enough that I could trust it close and wide-open. The plastic top-mounted rangefinder models that use dedicated cams have been better (although not perfect) solution for me, although I have great difficulty changing and simply seeing the little cam (so I just keep the stock 135mm lens on, lol).

Again, the Linhof Technika is the best in this regard, their rangefinder system is more accurate (probably the larger cam and tighter tolerances). There, I found that the human choosing the focusing area introduced my focusing errors, not the rangefinder.

With the Crown, used wide open and close, I try to do both a rangefinder and ground glass focus check at the working distance. If I am working with a subject 4-5-6 feet away (closer than these cameras are supposed to focus) I will focus a static subject critically on the ground glass and take note of the amount of offset in the rangefinder system (or count the fraction of turn of the focusing wheel.) I can then transfer that same amount of compensation (give or take) into my live subject shooting.

You can also use the viewfinder for framing to figure out how far from your subject you should be, and choose a center spot for your photo. Then you can put your eye to the rangefinder and look at the center spot when you press your shutter. Note that this may not be the same place you want to focus on... it is easy to start doing centered shots too often if you don't train yourself.

For me at least, the Graflex cameras require that tiny extra thought of "Do I need to compensate for the focus?" versus the Linhof. And that is the practical $1500 difference between the cameras (the build quality, movements, and beauty of the Linhof are just luxury benefits.)

[Bill_1856]

I have no problem focusing accurately with either the Kalart or Top RF.
It always seems a simple matter to adjust the Kalart for any lens, but it does take patience to get it right.

[cobalt]

Doing it the first time is a little tricky. I am really surprised that I was able to adjust mine correctly the first time I tried. I would not have been able to do it without the precision (read: teenie, tiny) screwdriver set I bought (about $5), and the 150mm enlarging lens I used to see those insanely tiny numbers, screws and adjustment devices.
below is a shot wide open. Not great art, but just wanted to see if I could focus accurately enough. In my defense, the wind blew just about the time I clicked the shutter (1/200 sec). Film is Plus X, developed in Microdol X.

[Neil_4793]

Simple.The one you have on hand.

[Wayne Crider]

this will be specifically for portraiture.
what are the main differences between a speed and a crown graphic?

Shutter in the Speed, ( speeds can be off or remarkably good), bigger body, more weight but can use cheaper barrel lenses. Your dealing with a cloth focal plane shutter or keeping the shutter open and using a standard lens. Crown has no incorporated shutter, lighter thinner body and can take focusing cams in the top RF models.
I stripped my Crown for street taking off the Kalart and everything else I didn't need. I'd shoot hyperfocal method and use the sports finder on the front standard. You can keep the Kalart on if it's a good one and have rangefinding for one lens. The cams on the newer top RF models allow optic changes with quick rangefinder changes. Cams can be found "but", back focus is not the same on all lenses of the same FL and shooting close would warrant a view of the GG, especially at larger apertures. Generally the Kalart rangefinders are setup for closer or further distances but generally you don't get both. My Super Graphic with cams was the same way. Be prepared to be noticed with a Speed or Crown. It's not a camera for shy people.

[mandoman7]

Shutter in the Speed, ( speeds can be off or remarkably good), bigger body, more weight but can use cheaper barrel lenses. Your dealing with a cloth focal plane shutter or keeping the shutter open and using a standard lens. Crown has no incorporated shutter, lighter thinner body and can take focusing cams in the top RF models.
I stripped my Crown for street taking off the Kalart and everything else I didn't need. I'd shoot hyperfocal method and use the sports finder on the front standard. You can keep the Kalart on if it's a good one and have rangefinding for one lens. The cams on the newer top RF models allow optic changes with quick rangefinder changes. Cams can be found "but", back focus is not the same on all lenses of the same FL and shooting close would warrant a view of the GG, especially at larger apertures. Generally the Kalart rangefinders are setup for closer or further distances but generally you don't get both. My Super Graphic with cams was the same way. Be prepared to be noticed with a Speed or Crown. It's not a camera for shy people.

Just getting back into LF after a long layoff, and I'm having fun checking the forum and seeing what's been going on while I was away.

Reading this thread got me thinking because I set my Crown up for quick portraits a long time ago but didn't use it, favoring my Deardorff or Arca Swiss for most things. I found the lens tests now available to be interesting with respect to the performance at the more open apertures, which I had thought were pretty much useless before. I never used to shoot more open than f16 (in LF).

After looking around the garage I found the camera and a couple of lenses, and also a cam or two. The lens I had set the rangefinder for was long gone, though, so there was some testing and mcgivering to get it working, and the first efforts were not great. One of the mirrors was found to be loose, though, and needed to be clamped (paper clip cut and bent worked good).

The next set of shots, however, showed it to be a very accurate focus, within an inch or two at 6 to 8 ft., with perfectly acceptable sharpness at 5.6 (135 schneider). The other surprising thing was that a normal scene shot at f16 and handheld at 1/100 produced an 8x10 that was sharper than what I would've expected from my medium format under similar settings (less depth of field, naturally).

The upshot is that I've now got this tool I'm looking forward to trying out some street shooting with, thanks to this forum...

JY