4x5 without a darkroom?

[AutumnJazz]

I don't have the time nor the space to build myself a darkroom. Is there anyway I can do daylight processing? I've googled, but must solutions seem to revolve around discontinued products that are hard to find.

Thanks,
Jazz

[Erik Larsen]

Easy enough to do. You can use a roller base and a tank or you can use the taco method, google it. It's not any more difficult, actually it is easier than roll film because you don't have to load film onto a reel. Give it a try.
Erik

[darr]

I use a Jobo ATL-1000. You can find them used on the bay if you check periodically. In the past I did use it for E-6 and C41, but I have abandon color film for digital and process only B&W now. I have used it for years with no problems. Having chemicals shipped to you can be a problem at times, so you may have to shop different dealers for them. All tanks I load inside a Harrision Tent on my kitchen table. I gave up my darkroom two years ago when I sold my larger home for my current retirement home. I even donated my enlarger to Goodwill. One thing I do not miss is the disposal of E-6 chemicals in the days I shot a lot of slide film for commercial purposes. If I decide to shot slide film today, I will mail order for development.

Best,
Darr

[Robert Glieden]

I use plastic food storage containers for trays. When I lived at my mom and dads after college I set-up a folding table in a closet under the stairway and used that. I hung a black blanket from the ceiling to block the light from the folding doors. My elbows touched the walls - it was tight. Now our laundry room in our town-home works like a dream with counter-space, sink and ventilation. Bathrooms work too.

There are other ways to process, but I've only used trays and found it to be simple enough. 15 minutes or less in the dark is all it takes and you can go back into the light or a better working space after that. I assume you're speaking about black and white.

Others will have different ideas. This process works really well for me. Be creative and you can find space. Best of luck,

Rob

www.robertglieden.com

[venchka]

Piece of cake. I have a windowless bathroom. I do have to wait for it to get dark outside befor loading film. A changing bag or changing tent would be just as good and useful more hours of the day. Once loaded, the film gets developed in the kitchen. Hung to dry back in the bathroom. I did 2 sheets/night on 3 nights last week. I could have done all 6 in one batch but I needed different developing times.

I use Jobo tanks, reels, and either Uniroller or Beseler motor bases. Jobo made one tank with two numbers: 2251 or 2553. Same tank. The tank will hold 5-35mm, 3-120/220 or 2 6 sheet 4x5 reels. You will need the 2551/2553 tank and the cog lid. I got mine for the cost of postage and a friend got his for $6 from a local shop. You will need 1 or 2 2509 or 2509n reels. Of course you may also need/use the adjustable reels for rollfilm. The same reels hold 35mm or 120/220 film. My Uniroller base was $20 and the Beseler base was free in a car load of darkroom gear.

Go for it. It's cheap. It's easy.

ps: Start saving money for a Jobo 3010 Expert drum. Worth every penny.

[bspeed]

even a small bathroom works..... 3 dip and dunk tanks.
you could even take a small folding plastic table that fits in the bathtub to place the tanks on.
in fact the area I use to place the tanks is about 2-1/2 feet by 2 feet.
to wash the negatives, I use a largish tupperware tray in the tub, swish the tray some, replenish the water.
just wait till night time, turn off lights on adjoining rooms, you should good to go.
it does not have to be all science lab stuff :)

[bspeed]

Start by buying 4 or 5 or 6 of those 4x5 hangers, for tank dipping, in the For Sale area :)

[Robbie Shymanski]

Keep in mind that Aaron Siskind did all his work in Chicago tray processing 5x7 in a room without a sink! For the record, he washed in the kitchen sink. Four trays, basic chemistry, and a bathroom sink. Turn the lights out and stuff a towel at the door. Tape the windows with two layers of black trash bags. Cheap and easy, just like all your photo heroes used to do it!

[Walter Calahan]

If Type 55 was still made, I'd say 4x5 without a darkroom is easy. Good luck.

[AutumnJazz]

All the rooms in my house have windows, and due to light pollution/spotlights on people's houses/need to sleep it doesn't matter if I do it at night.

This Jobo stuff sounds expensive. Wayne...can I actually find stuff like that inexpensively? It sounds like you lucked out...

Edit: Oh, I have a changing tent on the way.

[Glenn Thoreson]

Look for a Unicolor 8X10 print (not film) drum and roller base. Look here in the for sale section and on ebay. You should be able to get a setup for 50 bucks or less. After loading it's all done in the light with lttle amounts of chemicals. It's a good idea to get a plastic 11X14 tray to sit it in. You'll always get a bit of spills and leaks. No darkroom needed and you can do contact print developing in it, too. Fill it, turn it on and watch the clock while having a cold one. Easy! :D

[Bill_1856]

I don't think that you can do it, unless you're shooting 8x10 and going to settle for contact prints. Sheet film developing is the easy part.
How about finding yourself a rental darkroom?

[Paul H]

I make do without a darkroom - just a changing bag. First up I started with a 120 tank and the "taco method", then bought myself a Paterson Orbital processor (for GBP22). The Orbital is a great way to process up to four sheets at a time, with very little chemistry. It is effectively a light tight tray, and is very easy to load, even in the confines of a changing bag.

[David A. Goldfarb]

The Jobo sheet film reels can work in an inversion tank, just like the discontinued Nikor stainless steel sheet film tanks that I like, so you don't need the whole mechanized Jobo setup.

The HP CombiPlan tank is another daylight processing option that's in current production and that many people like.

Avoid the Yankee tank, which few people seem to get along with.

It also might not be a bad idea to set up an eBay search for the Nikor sheet film tank, in case one shows up.

[venchka]

I thought I lucked out until forum member wclavey got his 2551 tank for $6. That was cheaper than postage for the one I have. The deals are out there. This forum, camera stores, craigslist, Rangefinder Forum, etc., etc. If you can't black out a space for trays, daylight tanks are your only hope.

[Ken Lee]

While rotary/tank development is nice, I prefer to develop many negatives at once: as many as I need, at any given time. I found it very annoying to develop only a few at a time in a Jobo tank, and sold mine.

Using a spare bathroom and Sterilite food containers (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/tech.html#SheetFilm), I recently developed 36 4x5's at the same time, with no problems. That is my current record. I usually do around a dozen. I also develop 5x7 and 4x5 at the same time.

Using an Infra Red monocular (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/tech.html#Monocular) helps quite a bit too, because you see what you are doing at all times. Being able to do DBI or development by inspection, is another option with which I'd be reluctant to part.

[bspeed]

Tape up/velcro up something over the windows. heavy black plastic for andscaping is one item. a couple of sewn layers of blackout curtain with velcro attached.

JOBO stuff is way to much money for someone starting out.
For a fraction of that cost, you can get the materials to cover the windows. Getting the bathroom dark is what you need to do, that alone solves the majority of problems and gives you the ability to develop at the lowest cost, whether it's a roll of 35, one sheet or 50sheets of 4x5.

[venchka]

Y'all can say Jobo stuff is too expensive, but at least two members here can prove otherwise. The intangible with the Jobo tank, reel and motor base is the ease of use. I look forward to processing film. Therefore, I look forward to exposing film. That makes the Jobo and Uniroller hardware indespensible for me.

Did I need the tanks and motor roller to get started? No. Did having the hardware get me started quicker? You bet.

YMMV

[bspeed]

LOL, well on ebay anyway those 4x5 tanks and reels are not exactly cheap.
but those motor roller bases and other brands of tanks look like a good deal. Have been thinking about those myself.

[venchka]

There are currently 2 Jobo 2551 tanks listed on ebay. One all by itself and another as part of a larger assorment of darkroom hardware.

BTW, Paterson reels fit on the Jobo tank spindles.

[AutumnJazz]

David, what is an inversion tank?

Addendum: Right now, I mail out my film for processing, and that is getting expensive. I shoot 35mm too, so these daylight tanks seem like the best fit for me.

What about this? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120363801367

[venchka]

That's the Uniroller base I use. Works great with my 2553 and 3010 tanks. $20 in a local camera shop. $20 or less is the going rate on ebay.

[John Whitley]

I'll heartily second the recommendation for the Unicolor roller base and print drum. I'm surprised no one's yet linked the LFF article on the Unicolor setup (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/unicolor/). With a suitable size changing tent, 4x5 is easier to handle than roll film. These setups go by frequently on the LFF for-sale forum, ebay, or via your local Craigslist (how I got mine). The 8x10 print drum is the most suitable as a starter setup and you can do four 4x5 sheets at a time. Depending on how much you shoot, you may want to pick up an extra 8x10 drum to speed processing (e.g. to quickly process an N and N-1 batch).

Also look out for the very similar Beseler print drums and roller bases. See item 290288992644 on ebay for pictues of the 8x10 drum. You'll need the separator rail (a long thin piece of plastic) for doing 4x5 prints in that drum; ask the seller if the rail is included (or ask for a picture of the inside of the drum, if they're uninformed.) Let me know if you need more specifics or a photo of what I'm talking about. Failing that, you can fashion a replacement or poll around here and on APUG for spares.

Last but not least, some people use a Unicolor or Beseler roller base to process with a Jobo film drum, without the full Jobo processor.

All of the above solutions have been discussed here and elsewhere, so you can do some searches to dig up more info.

[venchka]

...

Last but not least, some people use a Unicolor or Beseler roller base to process with a Jobo film drum, without the full Jobo processor.



Yep! That's what I do.

[h2oman]

That all sounds fine and dandy for developing the film, but THEN what does a person do? This is exactly the question I'm wrestling with right now.

[venchka]

I'm in the same boat.

While aiming for the day when I can crank up my Omega 4x5 enlarger, I am making the best negatives I know how to make. Both of them so far. ;)

I purchased a scanner on this forum. It's arriving shortly. I already own Adobe Lightroom for any adjustments the scan files need. I will print my digitized 4x5 photos on my HP inkjet printer. Not perfect, but I'm making photos once again. :cool:

[Ken Lee]

Some images will work nicely in Silver. Some in Pt/Pd and other traditional processes. Some will look nice in inkjet. Why not use them all ?

[venchka]

Ken,

All part of the long term plan. You forgot carbon transfer.

[schristopher]

Adorama Camera has a daylight tank for 4x5 and its adjustable for smaller formats. That and a film changing bag is will get you started.

[John Whitley]

That all sounds fine and dandy for developing the film, but THEN what does a person do? This is exactly the question I'm wrestling with right now.


Digital Print: scan, digital darkroom, digital fine print (inkjet, etc).
Analog Print: traditional wet darkroom for silver, color, or create an enlarged negative for contact printing.
Hybrid Print: scan, digital darkroom, print a digital negative, contact print in an alternative process.


For my part, I originally thought that I would go digital first; then I took a digital negative workshop and got the alt. process gleam in my eye. Later I started doing wet darkroom work and realized that's an incredible vehicle for my photographic and creative growth. And a lot of fun. As a result, I'll be set with my own wet darkroom before I have the scanning and printing side ready. This also greases the wheels for processing contact prints... oh, the webs I weave. ;)

[JasonT]

I started developing 4x5 in trays in my bathroom. I used a fitted sheet around the bathroom door and a towel for the bottom. It was easy. I recently picked up a uniroller base and drum for about $35, which I've been using since. It is MUCH easier.

I contact print in my bathroom with a bare 15W bulb. I've started making 8x10 prints in my bathroom using my 4x5 camera and the same 15W bulb and a foam board box as the light source. If you want to pursue LF at home, it really can be cheap. PM me if you have questions on my specific setup.

[David A. Goldfarb]

David, what is an inversion tank?

An inversion tank is like the ordinary tanks (stainless steel, Paterson, etc.) that most people use to develop 35mm and medium format. It doesn't need to roll on a roller base. It stands upright on a table, has a daylight cap for pouring chemicals in and out, and you invert it a certain number of times at regular intervals to agitate. There is a smaller cap that goes on top of the light baffled cap to keep the solutions from pouring out when you turn the tank upside down. The Nikor sheet film tank is an inversion tank. The film loads in a stainless steel reel with slots for 12 sheets of film. Jobo makes a plastic reel like this with slots for 6 sheets of film.

I don't do Jobo, so I'll let the Jobo users fill you in on the relevant model numbers, but I know they make an inversion tank that takes their sheet film reels.

The disadvantages to an inversion tank, as opposed to a roller drum, are that the inversion tank uses a greater volume of solution and you have to pay attention to the time and agitate it. The latter point is a big advantage for drums, because standing around shaking the film can or shuffling sheets in the dark can be tedious work, particularly if you have to do a lot of it.

The advantages to an inversion tank are that it is simple and can be used anywhere without electricity or a roller base (though drums can also be rolled on the floor or in a long sink by hand, as long as you have space to do it); the developer won't oxidize as quickly, because you don't have the constant churning with air that you have in a drum, and therefore it's easier to use a greater variety of developers; and you have more control over agitation with an inversion tank.

[mikerz]

I find it surprising that no one mentioned BTZS style tubes.

I've been using them, and they work really well. They cost 140 new from the view camera store ( also have a store on ebay with free shipping on this item ).

Or, you could make your own if you have black ABS plastic available to you ( I looked everywhere and no one had it ), just google DIY btzs tubes

[Tim k]

After reading this, I gave the sewer pipe thing a try. I wanted a simple way to do one sheet.

It was stupid simple. Worked great. About 5 bucks.

[venchka]

I find it surprising that no one mentioned BTZS style tubes.

I've been using them, and they work really well. They cost 140 new from the view camera store ( also have a store on ebay with free shipping on this item ).

Or, you could make your own if you have black ABS plastic available to you ( I looked everywhere and no one had it ), just google DIY btzs tubes

Hmmmmmmmmmm...$140 new?

Here's why I didn't mention the BTZS tubes.

I don't think they would fit in my limited counter space. I can (and did last night) develop 4x5 film using a standard size double sink and less than 12" of counter space including room for my Gra-Lab 300 timer.

For $143 I got the following used equipment: Jobo 2553 tank, 6 reels including one 2509, Jobo loader for the 2509 reel, 2 small Jobo tanks, lids for everything, a Jobo 3010 Expert drum and a Beseler motor base.

Good deals are out there.

[PenGun]

Hmmmmmmmmmm...$140 new?

Here's why I didn't mention the BTZS tubes.

I don't think they would fit in my limited counter space. I can (and did last night) develop 4x5 film using a standard size double sink and less than 12" of counter space including room for my Gra-Lab 300 timer.

For $143 I got the following used equipment: Jobo 2553 tank, 6 reels including one 2509, Jobo loader for the 2509 reel, 2 small Jobo tanks, lids for everything, a Jobo 3010 Expert drum and a Beseler motor base.

Good deals are out there.

The bathroom in my fith wheel is 44"x42" not counting the tub. My counter with single sink is 43"x 18". I use the microwave timer in my kitchen.

Lots of room for a BTZS setup. I've always hated the damn drums. I did colour printing in trays I hated em' so much. ;)

[venchka]

That's what makes the world go round. If we were all the same, imagine how boring it would be.

[cjbroadbent]

Have a look at the thread "Kitchen-Sink 8X10 in a tube". I made some mistakes which were kindly corrected by others - but the principle works. The breadboard/skateboard roller now rotates with a Lego motor and never spills a drop.

[thacker8394]

you could also use a daylight developing tank like the one in this link http://www.adorama.com/DKCPTS.html. I have a ventage fr daylight tank that is no longer in production and it works perfect. i just took weather striping and put it around the door frame of one of my closets and a towel at the bottom and it is compleatly dark in there for loading the tank and my film holders. and i do all of the developing in my ketchen sink. daylight tank $80 weather striping $10 from your local hardware store. for me that was a cheap (dark room) and if you dont forget to agitate the tank by hand it works perfect.

[Michael Filler]

I have a day light tank for thelve sheets of film. It is hard plastic, the "agitank" made by Yankee. Sort of the same concept as a reel and drum. You load it dry (you can do it in a changing bag), pop on the lid, and from there on it is lights on. This is used equipment. I bought it for travel. Then quick-loads came a long and I give up, never actually used it. It uses 55 oz of solution for 4x5. It also can be set for 2.25x3.25, 3.25x4.25, 9cm x 6, 6.5 or 12cm.

$15 plus shipping.

[mrladewig]

That all sounds fine and dandy for developing the film, but THEN what does a person do? This is exactly the question I'm wrestling with right now.

Scan for digital printing or use one of the UV contact printing methods.

[Stephen Longmire]

I'm surprised no one mentioned the availability of daylight developing tanks for 4x5. I find the HP Combi-Plan tank invaluable (use small tank times for starters), if a bit finicky to load. I've had nothing but trouble with the Yankee Tank, however. Both options are much smaller and cheaper than the Jobo--which is certainly a useful tool.

[Tim Meisburger]

I can load my Paterson orbital in a dark bag, develop negatives in daylight, go into a dark closet and lay a sheet of photo paper on a piece of block board covered with thin foam sheet, cover the paper with four negatives,then lay a sheet of glass on top, turn on the light for two to six seconds, then put the 8x10 paper in the Paterson, and develop the contact prints in daylight. So, I have a darkroom, but its only a closet with a light.