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View Full Version : Are there any Agfa APX25 equivalents available?



Navy Moose
15-Jan-2009, 11:50
Hello All,

I'm not at all familiar with Agfa film and I was asked this today by a fellow shooter what film today is equivalent.

If anyone can provide me with some recommendations, I would appreciate it.

From the speed, I would say something like the old Plus-X. I can't even find out if this was slide or negative....

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Navy Moose

Arne Croell
15-Jan-2009, 12:01
There is no real replacement for it. I still enjoy using my few remaining 120 rolls of APX 25 ;-)

Anyway, the best substitute so far that I found for roll film and 35mm is Rolleipan 25. It is a closer relative of Orwo's old NP15 than Agfa's APX 25, but its quite nice (made by Filmotec in Wolfen). Developed in Tetenal Neofin blue, they are close in gradation and appearance.
As far as sheet film goes, APX 25 was unfortunately never available as sheet film, only its predecessor, Agfapan 25. However, AFAIK Adox Pan 25 is the same film as the Rolleipan 25, and it comes in 4x5. Freestyle sells it, although right now it is on back order.

Navy Moose
15-Jan-2009, 12:10
Thank you :-)

Joerg Krusche
15-Jan-2009, 16:38
Arne,

in case you run out of APX 25 in 120 .. please let me know .. I still have quite a bit of that film from the the last batch coated and finished by Agfa (expiry 2006) .. film is in superb condition,

greetings,

Joerg

Toyon
15-Jan-2009, 20:04
Is Efke 25 related to Rollei/Adox 25? Also, I have a couple of bricks of apx 25 135-36 if someone is interested.

Arne Croell
15-Jan-2009, 23:21
Is Efke 25 related to Rollei/Adox 25? Also, I have a couple of bricks of apx 25 135-36 if someone is interested.
No, that is a different beast based on the original ADOX KB14 film from the 1950's. The Dr. Schleussner company, the founder and owner of the ADOX brand, was later bought by DuPont which then moved the production to Efke in what was then Yugoslavia. Fotoimpex in Berlin (the present owner of the ADOX name) sells the Efke one too, as ADOX CHS 25 Art, different from ADOX Pan 25.

Emmanuel BIGLER
16-Jan-2009, 01:01
Hello Joerg and friends of APX 25!
My stock of frozen APX 25 in 120 rolls is non-empty as well, but I keep it preciously as vintage bottles of wines ;) to be opened with good friends on special occasions !

..from the the last batch coated and finished by..
So, if I understand well, Joerg, this APX 25 film is the perfect companion of your Apo Germinars...
from the the last batch coated and finished by
...Docter Optics ;)


Not kidding : I am always impressed by the dynamism of the B&W film & paper business in Germany (and the UK of course). In comparison, France looks so small... with the exception of the superb efforts made by Guy Gérard at BERGGER !

After a reference article on Zeiss-Jena and Docter Optics, may be Arne & Joerg could think about bringing us their first- hand knowledge about ORWO and Filmotec !

All the best from France !

Joerg Krusche
16-Jan-2009, 03:53
Emmanuel,

if you or your friends would like to continue to use APX 25 in 120 format .. there is no problem .. just let me know .. there is quite a bit .. and as we kow much easier to use than TP and the combination of fine grain and tonality in Rodinal is just beautiful .. so a good match for your Rollei 2,8F... or on your 6x9 baby. For first time users of APX 25 .. they may need more than one roll to fine tune exposure/development .. but there are enough bricks and original Agfa Rodinal bottles to optimize.

Emmanuel.. I am very sorry I could not make it to Bourges .. had very much enjoyed to meet you and the french community .. I heard it was a Great meeting .. perhaps this spring in Vienne/Rhone-Alpes at Michel's meeting.

You are right .. the Adox films made at Neu-Isenburg were sold by DuPont after their Photo Products Department had bought that plant from Dr. Schleussner to then only make X-ray and Graphic Arts materials.

Since I am a few days older than you .. I still in my early days shot with the then famous Adox KB 15 ... I was rather disappointed to learn that after so many years of manufacture Efke was not able to get rid of that terrible curl of their roll film ..

So if interested in APX 25 .. from last batch made .. let me know...

Very best wishes,

Joerg

Joerg Krusche
16-Jan-2009, 09:57
Emmanuel,

I correct myself .. that was the Adox KB 14 !!! .. getting older !

Best,

Joerg

Joerg Krusche
16-Jan-2009, 10:08
Hello,

I received a request whether APX 25 would be just for Arne and Emmanuel .. the answer is no ! .. if there are friends who value APX 25 in 120 (Rollei, Blad, Mamiya, ..etc. .. or Super Rollex users on 4x5 LF etc. ) .. just drop a mail , would bring down shipping cost per roll.

Best,

Joerg

Drew Wiley
16-Jan-2009, 11:57
Efke/Adox 25 is an absolutely superb film in its own right - the only thing available in
120 with a combination of a very long straight line and excellent acutance and edge
effect. Will handle lighting conditions like no other roll film I am aware of. But I don't use it in sheets because it is relatively fragile and indeed slow (true ASA 25 in PMK).

D. Bryant
16-Jan-2009, 13:04
Efke/Adox 25 is an absolutely superb film in its own right - the only thing available in
120 with a combination of a very long straight line and excellent acutance and edge
effect. Will handle lighting conditions like no other roll film I am aware of. But I don't use it in sheets because it is relatively fragile and indeed slow (true ASA 25 in PMK).

And isn't the equivalent to Agfa PAN 25. There is no replacement for this film, IMO.

Don Bryant

Arne Croell
17-Jan-2009, 14:07
And isn't the equivalent to Agfa PAN 25. There is no replacement for this film, IMO.

Don Bryant
Yes. One big difference between the Efke and most other films is the different spectral sensitization - the Efke (Adox CMS 25 Art) is what is called orthopanchromatic, i.e. is less sensitive in the dark red part of the spectrum than a regular panchromatic film like the APX 25.

butterflydream
19-Jan-2009, 07:43
And isn't the equivalent to Agfa PAN 25. There is no replacement for this film, IMO.

Don Bryant

Kodak Technical Pan? :D

D. Bryant
19-Jan-2009, 08:33
Kodak Technical Pan? :D
Well no. Why would you suggest TP even in jest?

Arne Croell
19-Jan-2009, 08:36
Kodak Technical Pan? :D
Certainly not. Its not just about the fine grain - TP was actually finer grained than APX 25, as was Agfa's own Agfaortho 25. The same is true for other "document" films that could be and can be forced into pictorial use by special developers. In addition the spectral response of TP was actually the opposite of the Efke, it had extended red sensitivity compared to the normal spectral sensitivity of panchromatic film (APX 25). Its a combination of edge effect with certain developers and the gradation of the film that makes it unique. The curves of TP in Technidol or a similar developer are quite different from APX 25 in Neofin blue or diluted Rodinal.

Gene McCluney
20-Jan-2009, 01:37
Kodak Technical Pan? :D

Kodak Technical Pan is long discontinued.

jvuokko
20-Jan-2009, 04:08
Yes. One big difference between the Efke and most other films is the different spectral sensitization - the Efke (Adox CMS 25 Art) is what is called orthopanchromatic, i.e. is less sensitive in the dark red part of the spectrum than a regular panchromatic film like the APX 25.

So this will implicate that Efke (Adox CMS 25 Art) is not the best film for general landscape photography?

How does old ADOX 25 Pan really compare to APX 25?
Ofcourse in LF grain has no meaning, and tonality of ADOX 25 Pan is great (if I understood correctly).
On MF use, the grain have more meaning.

I really loved APX 25, it was my main film along with APX 100 from late eighties to the end of Agfa's B&W films.

Arne Croell
20-Jan-2009, 05:12
So this will implicate that Efke (Adox CMS 25 Art) is not the best film for general landscape photography?

How does old ADOX 25 Pan really compare to APX 25?
Ofcourse in LF grain has no meaning, and tonality of ADOX 25 Pan is great (if I understood correctly).
On MF use, the grain have more meaning.

I really loved APX 25, it was my main film along with APX 100 from late eighties to the end of Agfa's B&W films.

No the Efke is certainly ok for landscape - just different. It is not orthochromatic, it has some sensitivity in the red, just not as much as a regular panchromatic one. The effect of orange and red filters will be slightly different from the effect on APX 25, for instance.
Even orthochromatic film can be used; I occasionally did landscapes with Agfaortho 25 when it was still available (in 120).

Adox pan is not old; although it is based on Orwopan, it has been improved compared to the old GDR product. The development times are also quite different when comparing Orwopan NP 15 and the successor Rolleipan 25/Adox Pan 25.

jvuokko
20-Jan-2009, 07:43
No the Efke is certainly ok for landscape - just different. It is not orthochromatic, it has some sensitivity in the red, just not as much as a regular panchromatic one. The effect of orange and red filters will be slightly different from the effect on APX 25, for instance.
Even orthochromatic film can be used; I occasionally did landscapes with Agfaortho 25 when it was still available (in 120).

Thanks!

I will try Efke.

Ortochromatic is really good for landscapes sometimes. To be honest, I haven't never used real ortochromatic, but have simulated it's effect many times by using filters.

Joerg Krusche
20-Jan-2009, 12:53
Update:

since it appears that there is more than one former APX 25 user/lover .. here a short status review .. APX 25/120 with expiry date 2006/last batch.. several test rolls shot yesterday .. Mamiya 7 with 65/150mm ..

Whow .. what a camera/lens/film combo .. very LF in the meaning of possible print size .. Speed right on.. Fog non-existent ... Rodinal 1+75 at 20C with 3 inversions every minute .. for 18 minutes .. For those who scan .. scanner may not be able to pick up all details.. .

For those who love APX 25/120 ...pricing shall be such that it is attractive for you ... but not for the sole purpose of resale...BTW there is rolls/bricks/Big bricks.. still being worked on shipping options etc.

Analog is fun!!

Best,

Joerg

D. Bryant
21-Jan-2009, 19:49
Update:

since it appears that there is more than one former APX 25 user/lover .. here a short status review .. APX 25/120 with expiry date 2006/last batch.. several test rolls shot yesterday .. Mamiya 7 with 65/150mm ..

Whow .. what a camera/lens/film combo .. very LF in the meaning of possible print size .. Speed right on.. Fog non-existent ... Rodinal 1+75 at 20C with 3 inversions every minute .. for 18 minutes .. For those who scan .. scanner may not be able to pick up all details.. .

For those who love APX 25/120 ...pricing shall be such that it is attractive for you ... but not for the sole purpose of resale...BTW there is rolls/bricks/Big bricks.. still being worked on shipping options etc.

Analog is fun!!

Best,

Joerg

So how much do you want to clip us for the A PAN 25?

Don Bryant

Joerg Krusche
22-Jan-2009, 05:28
Don,

all films mentioned in this thread are very good films once you spent the time to optimize .. and todays film manufacturers should have our support .. and we should buy from them such that they can continue their offering .. but since there was a question re discontinued APX 25 on this forum .. I thought I should reply specifically for those who used APX 25/120 .. and loved this film ....selling price for these users on this forum is 5 USD/roll .. I believe a fair offer for those who want this very special film ..I hope I addressed your question,

Best regards,

joerg

D. Bryant
22-Jan-2009, 06:41
Don,

this forum is 5 USD/roll .. I believe a fair offer for those who want this very special film ..I hope I addressed your question,

Best regards,

joerg

A fair price indeed!

Cheers,

Don Bryant

Will Ewing
25-Jun-2009, 15:40
Arne,

in case you run out of APX 25 in 120 .. please let me know .. I still have quite a bit of that film from the the last batch coated and finished by Agfa (expiry 2006) .. film is in superb condition,

greetings,

Joerg

Do you still have say 5 rolls left I could play with? I found 3 at a "reasonable" price, but I wanted to play a little with Rodinal 1:100. My take was that was the Landscape combination of choice. What was your favorite combination?

Thanks,
Will Ewing

mcfactor
26-Jun-2009, 08:31
Adox Pan 25 might also be a reasonable replacement. I believe it is rebranded Rollei Pan 25. According to the freestyle website, it is a modern techonology film and it is stunning in 4x5 and 120 (as Rollei)

jvuokko
3-Jul-2009, 07:05
Adox Pan 25 might also be a reasonable replacement. I believe it is rebranded Rollei Pan 25. According to the freestyle website, it is a modern techonology film and it is stunning in 4x5 and 120 (as Rollei)

Yes, The Adox Pan 25 is same film as Rollei Pan 25. Both are made by Filmotec.

I have now using 50 sheets pile of Adox Pan 25 and evaluating it, if it will suite for me as an replacement for APX-25.

It's a bit grainier than APX, but it's not issue. The main thing is tonality where APX-25 really shined. So far I am not quite sure...

John Kasaian
3-Jul-2009, 08:18
Freestyle still might have some labeled "Arista II." I just shot my last roll of 25 iso Arista II---I didn't see any difference between that and the old APX (lovely stuff in Rodinal) The 25 was what I used as a substitute for Panatomic X.

Arne Croell
3-Jul-2009, 09:28
Yes, The Adox Pan 25 is same film as Rollei Pan 25. Both are made by Filmotec.

Yes, that used to be the case. However, based on several recent exchanges on the German Aphog site (the thread, in German, is here: http://www.aphog.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7387&hilit=Adox+pan), I understand that the only manufacturer of Maco's films now is Gevaert in Belgium (it might still be cut elsewhere). I also noticed that the last batch of 35mm Rolleipan I bought a few weeks ago had a different style emulsion number and a different color of both the base and the coating compared to the previous version (also different cans). I haven't compared them yet, but the new one might be made by Gevaert, not Filmotec anymore. I am not completely sure as the statement of Mr. Junghans from Maco in that thread is somewhat indirect.
The Adox Pan 25 film is Filmotec-based.

jvuokko
5-Jul-2009, 05:20
Is there any comparable charasteristic charts of APX-25, Panf+, ADOX Pan25, CHS 25 Art and probably new Rollei Pan 25?
They would be interesting.

I have an idea to compare some of current slow films with orginal APX-25 in terms of tonality and grain. Perhaps including one faster T-grain film too.

At least I will surely know after the test what film I will use (or keep using) instead of APX-25.

Asher Kelman
12-Sep-2009, 22:18
Is there any comparable charasteristic charts of APX-25, Panf+, ADOX Pan25, CHS 25 Art and probably new Rollei Pan 25?
They would be interesting.

I have an idea to compare some of current slow films with orginal APX-25 in terms of tonality and grain. Perhaps including one faster T-grain film too.

At least I will surely know after the test what film I will use (or keep using) instead of APX-25.

jvuokko,

Did you manage to get the tests done? Am interested in the results. Also what is available in 4x5 and 6x10?

Asher

Asher Kelman
12-Sep-2009, 23:13
Is there any comparable charasteristic charts of APX-25, Panf+, ADOX Pan25, CHS 25 Art and probably new Rollei Pan 25?
They would be interesting.

I have an idea to compare some of current slow films with orginal APX-25 in terms of tonality and grain. Perhaps including one faster T-grain film too.

At least I will surely know after the test what film I will use (or keep using) instead of APX-25.

jvuokko,

Did you manage to get the tests done? Am interested in the results. Also what is available in 4x5 and 6x10?

Asher

jvuokko
13-Sep-2009, 04:54
jvuokko,

Did you manage to get the tests done? Am interested in the results. Also what is available in 4x5 and 6x10?

Asher

Hi, test is otherwise done, have to draw graphs and still scan some samples.

I included following films on test (all are not available on LF size, but I was curios and tested):

- Panf+
- ADOX Pan 25
- Fuji Acros 100
- ADOX CHS 25 Art
- SPUR DSX32 (special film, only available on 35mm)
- APX-25

The Panf+, ADOX Pan 25, ADOX CHS 25 Art and Acros 100 are available on 4x5.

So far I can only say that Acros 100 developed in Pyrocat-HD is really sharp film, goes sharper than Panf+. The grain it bit larger but it does not have any mean in LF or MF. SPUR DSX32 is ofcourse sharpest, but it does not have any practical mean.

What is interesting is that the H&D curve of APX-25 is not so special, actually it's quite straight. Something that you could expect from TMX or Delta100.

I won't go deep in the H&D curves yet, but now it seems that Adox pan 25 matches closest with APX-25, but it does have more toe and shoulder. The Panf+ seems to be second closest, but the difference to the Adox pan 25 is not big. Acros 100 is also much more S shaped than APX-25.

One question that I would raisi is that will the secret of the tonality of APX-25 really be only in the shape of the H&D curve, or is there something else too?


What I would like to do is to photograph some really real subject on APX-25, say wet stones on the river during late evening for example. Then take same photograph on couple of films that come closest according to the H&D curve and then compare the prints. Which will have best tones, it will be the winner.

Mike1234
13-Sep-2009, 08:47
Jukka,

May I suggest once you've completed your tests you add another test? Selenium toning adds a depth (acutance and extended gamma curve) that is otherwise unattainable, IMO. Might you consider trying this?

jvuokko
13-Sep-2009, 10:39
Jukka,

May I suggest once you've completed your tests you add another test? Selenium toning adds a depth (acutance and extended gamma curve) that is otherwise unattainable, IMO. Might you consider trying this?

Do you mean testing of selenium toning of the films?
If so, it could be interesting as I haven't done it ever. I have thought that it's only the last attempt to get more contrast to unprintable flat negative.

Mike1234
13-Sep-2009, 18:50
Yes, I mean selenium toning negs. This extends the straight line portion of the gamma curve which helps to keep shadows open and highlights unblocked. It's been a very long time ago but I normally overexposed one full stop (metered for the lowest shadow detail that needed texture and set that exposure point to -3 EV or "zone 2" ... but as stated at half the ASA rating) with Agfapan 25 or 100 then underprocessed in Rodinal 1:50 or 1:100 depending on contrast of scene then selenium toned to bring the contrast up to where the negs would print on #2 or #3 Ilford Gallery. I developed to bring the highlights (with the highest value needing detail) to "zone VI". I visually inspected the film during toning to avoid going too far. I then selenium toned the prints as well... "very" slightly underexposing the prints and using the toner to increase DMax. The resulting images were very high in acutance with very open shadows and highly detailed highlights.

borisov
28-May-2014, 01:34
Dear Joerg,
I just read these old postings of yours. 5 years have already passed, but do you perhaps still have some rolls Agfapan APX 25 from this last batch?
Best regards, Borislav



Don,

all films mentioned in this thread are very good films once you spent the time to optimize .. and todays film manufacturers should have our support .. and we should buy from them such that they can continue their offering .. but since there was a question re discontinued APX 25 on this forum .. I thought I should reply specifically for those who used APX 25/120 .. and loved this film ....selling price for these users on this forum is 5 USD/roll .. I believe a fair offer for those who want this very special film ..I hope I addressed your question,

Best regards,

joerg

Bill_1856
28-May-2014, 07:10
What a confusing thread!

Dhuiting
24-Jul-2016, 23:17
I also would like to know if there are any rolls of Apx 25 still available? Would greatly appreciate it!

wilcoxerma
26-Jul-2016, 00:54
I still enjoy using my few remaining 120 rolls of APX 25
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