Lens Shopping-Portrait, Part II

[dazedgonebye]

I thought I'd start another thread so that those who'd already contributed might look again and comment on this stage of the decision process.

Just a reminder of what I'm looking for. I'd like a lens to use for portrait work primarily with a secondary role as a landscape lens.

I've narrowed my search down to 3 lenses.

210mm f5.6 Nikkor, offered to me at what looks to be a very generous price of $195.
250mm f6.3 Fujinon, (KEH EX) for $265.
250mm f5.6 Tele-Raptar in working Alphax shutter for $158.

My thoughts:
210mm--Not as long as I'd like. I'm concerned that I might want more compression both for portraits and landscape. Great price for a modern lens/shutter with lots of coverage.
250mm Fujnon--Half a stop slower than the other lenses. Most expensive of the bunch (but still doable). Lots of coverage.
250mm Tele-Raptar--Cheapest of the 3. Will surely allow me shots as tight as I could want. I'm not sure of the coverage. The only reference I find online is an individual claiming it covers 5x7 (no authoritative source that I can find). Alphax shutter only goes to 1/100th (probably not a big issue). Fits my pattern of buying camera stuff older than myself. :-)

I'd be grateful for any and all input.

[BarryS]

FWIW, I'd stretch the budget for the Fujinon because of the focal length, normal design, and coverage. The 210 seems a little short for a portrait lens and the tele design of the Raptar makes lens tilt more difficult to control. These aren't major quibbles--any of the lenses would work fine and I'm a big fan of Alphax shutters--they're built really well.

[dazedgonebye]

Thanks Barry,
Can you tell me a bit about tilts and telephoto lenses?

[BarryS]

The nodal point is in front of the lens in a tele design, so it complicates tilt and shift adjustments a bit because the tilt occurs behind the nodal point. I think it just requires some extra time refocusing when adjusting, but it's a bit of extra work. If your camera has base tilt, you have a similar but lesser problem anyway. If you have axis tilt, the tele will negate that advantage.

[dazedgonebye]

As an update, equinox (seller of the tele-rapter) tells me there is ample coverage for movements (by all reports).

[jnantz]

i'd get the raptar.
it's cheap and works well.

use it for a while, and if you don't like it, you can
always sell it for what you got it for, and buy something
that suits your needs better.

[BradS]

daysgoneby: you don't mention here what camera you'll be using this with. I kinda assume the Crown (or Speed?) Graphic that you mention buying recently in another thread....if that is the case, I think you'd find the 250mm Fuji to be unsuitable. I don't think that the Crown/Speed Graphic has enough bellows to focus a 250mm lens of normal design at head and shoulders portrait distances. If you stretch the Crown Graphic bellows all the way to its limit, you may be able to get a subject-to-lens distance around 1.5meter - which might be ok...but, you'd really be taxing the poor old bellows.

For what it is worth, I have done quite abit of people work with a crown and a 210mm lens. I prefer the Geronar for people as, wide open it is not as clincally sharp and just has a very nice feel to it. The smaller size makes it capable of folding up in the Crown Graphic box too - which is a requirement for me.

Most times however, I simply use the stock 135mm Optar...it really is a lovely lens for people and the coupled RF makes using it easy. I think quite a few folks more skilled and knowlegeable than I have made many, many successful people pics with nothing more than this.

[BarryS]

If you're limited by bellows length, the Tele-Raptar has the advantage of requiring a shorter lens to film distance compared to a conventional lens. The Tele-Raptar only requires a little over 6" of bellows draw to focus at infinity, so it would be fine if you're going to use it on a Crown Graphic (with about 12" of bellows).

[dazedgonebye]

It is for a crown graphic....

You know, I don't even know if I'll shoot head and shoulders (or be able to handle the camera that well...seems tough), but I think I'd like to be able to try for those shots.

I'm thinking I'll try the tele-raptar. I'm pretty sure if it doesn't turn out, I can sell it without too much of a loss.

Still interested in additional opinions. I'll buy something tomorrow in all likelyhood.

[jb7]

The Nikkor-
at portrait length it'll seem (be) longer than 210mm-

certainly good enough for upper body shots, and depending on the subject, could work very well closer-

The 250 Fujinon, as has been mentioned, will probably struggle for bellows and be limiting up close-

The tele- I don't have any experience of tele's on lf-
but if you want to use it at infinity, I'm sure it wont leave much room for movements-

j

[Juergen Sattler]

I would also opt for the 210 - the 250 won't make THAT much of a difference in what you see on the GG, but you will struggle with the short bellows of the Crown. I just don't like Teles in LF - they just complicate matters.

[aduncanson]

Per:

http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/wollensak_5.html

Wollensak claimed to only just cover 4x5 with their 254mm Raptar Telephoto. (Schneider made similar claims for their old 240mm Tele-Xenar.)
I suggest looking for independent confirmation that the Raptar covers better than that, if such coverage is important to you.

You may also want to solicit information about the character of the bokeh of telephoto designs.

[dazedgonebye]

Per:

http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/wollensak_5.html

Wollensak claimed to only just cover 4x5 with their 254mm Raptar Telephoto. (Schneider made similar claims for their old 240mm Tele-Xenar.)
I suggest looking for independent confirmation that the Raptar covers better than that, if such coverage is important to you.

You may also want to solicit information about the character of the bokeh of telephoto designs.

Thanks for the link.
I'm still looking for that confirmation.

[venchka]

The Nikkor for close to half of what I paid for my similar Nikkor-W seems like a really nice deal. If it doesn't work for portraits it'll darn sure work for everything else. Forum member wclavey uses a 210 on his Crown/Speed contraption (grinning) and it works fine. He might know what happens in a portrait situation. Wes, are you out there? I would talk to Wes about his opinion of a 210 lens on a Crown before doing anything.

[cowanw]

Thanks for the link.
I'm still looking for that confirmation.

I popped my tele raptar on my 8X10 2d and found that I lost about a 1 inch triangle in each corner suggesting that coverage is very close to a radius of about 5 inches. Which if I calculate correctly would give an 1 1/2 inch of movement with 5x7.Of course whether you consider coverage to be any image or just well corrrected image is up to you.
Regards
Bill