D25 Development help: Efke 25 is thin but Tmax 100 looks good

[Tim Povlick]

I am having a bit of a problem D-25 developing Efke 25 compared to Tmax 100. For example, today I shot a landscape scene with both films, one right after the other. The Efke was at 1/2 sec f/22 and the tmax at 1/8 sec f/22, (8x10 camera and Schneider APO Symmar L 480mm - f/8.4). The film was processed, (4 sheets) 8x10 in Jobo 3005 using 1 liter of D-25 for 20 minutes at about 68F (spun at 40rpm). Pre-soak 4 minutes, water stop bath 1 minute, 4 minutes of TF-4 Fixer and final wash.

The Efke looks 'thin' but the TMax looks rich and contrasty. In my 4x5 experience I have always had Efke beat TMAX for contrast, but this is using TFX-2 or FX-2. How do I determine a reasonable next step, do I go an extra stop in exposure time or should the development time be increased? Is there a way to know without actually trying it?

Thanks,

Tim

[Wallace_Billingham]

FWIW I always give Efke films a bit more exposure of at least half a stop if not more. The Efke films tend to tolerate over exposure fairly well but not handle under exposure pretty poorly.

Also keep in mind that Efke 25 and Efke 50 have very poor sensitivty to red light compared to panchromatic film like Tmax 100. So if you have a lot of red light in your scene such as early and late in the day and meter for that it may be off

[Tim Povlick]

Hi Wallace,

Thanks for your reply, I think you nailed it. I was shooting in the very early morning hours. I wasn't aware of the lack of red sensitivity of Efke 25 compared to Tmax 100. I have run a bunch of tests trying to get to the bottom of this but these were run at high noon when red wouldn't be as much an issue. I'll bump the exposure 1 stop more in addition to watching the lighting conditions.

I am curious about the Efke; if one is photographing the reds of the southwest is something like Tmax called for or just more exposure time? With the Efke if you are shooting a scene with distant objects but some obscuring haze it would seem the Efke would make the haze stand out more?

Thanks!

Tim

[Wallace_Billingham]

With the Efke 25 and 50 film anything red will be pretty dark to black depending on the exposure, that can be an advantage or a disadvantage depending on what you are going for.

The Efke 25 & 50 films are based on the old Adox films from 60 years ago, and are not quite a true orthochromatic film, but they are also not quite a panchromatic film either. They render the scene in a very different way than more "modern" films. They work wonders for portraits, can be very cool for landscapes, or might not work at all. One thing that Efke 25 and 50 will do is render blue skies very white unless you use a yellow filter

As most haze is in the blue part of the spectrum it might get rendered more, but then again most Panchromtic films have pretty good blue sensitivit. You could also just use a yellow filter to minimize it no matter what the film. Interestingly enough Tmax films have less sensitivity to blue light than say Kodak Tri-X

In a lot of ways the Efke 25 and 50 films are like using a film with an internal filter that just cuts back on the red light.

This site (it is in Dutch) will show you the spectral sensitivity of it, it cuts off around 625nm
http://www.efke.nl/art25.html
note that this film is also sold under the Adox brand name (mainly in Europe) but it is the exact same film

Compare that with Tmax 100 which goes out to between 675-700nm
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f4016/f4016.pdf

[KOG]

I think the color issue is a "red herring" (pun intended). Efke 25/50 as less sensitive to reds, but not completely blind to reds. I've found that Efke 50 shows slightly better separation between various shades of reds and yellows, in a comparison test to other films like FP4+ and Foma 100, but not totally dissimilar.

The real problem may be under exposure. While Tmax does well at box speed, I think the Efke 25/50 films do better with more exposure.

Kevin.

[Tim Povlick]

With the Efke 25 and 50 film anything red will be pretty dark to black depending on the exposure, that can be an advantage or a disadvantage depending on what you are going for.

The Efke 25 & 50 films are based on the old Adox films from 60 years ago, and are not quite a true orthochromatic film, but they are also not quite a panchromatic film either. They render the scene in a very different way than more "modern" films. They work wonders for portraits, can be very cool for landscapes, or might not work at all. One thing that Efke 25 and 50 will do is render blue skies very white unless you use a yellow filter

As most haze is in the blue part of the spectrum it might get rendered more, but then again most Panchromtic films have pretty good blue sensitivit. You could also just use a yellow filter to minimize it no matter what the film. Interestingly enough Tmax films have less sensitivity to blue light than say Kodak Tri-X

In a lot of ways the Efke 25 and 50 films are like using a film with an internal filter that just cuts back on the red light.

This site (it is in Dutch) will show you the spectral sensitivity of it, it cuts off around 625nm
http://www.efke.nl/art25.html
note that this film is also sold under the Adox brand name (mainly in Europe) but it is the exact same film

Compare that with Tmax 100 which goes out to between 675-700nm
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f4016/f4016.pdf

Hi Wallace,

Thanks for your response and the links. I did not realize the differences between the efke 25 and TMAX-100 in blue region. After reading your comments and seeing this in the datasheets I am going to take a closer look at switching back to TMAX-100. In 4x5 land I was getting some nice contrasty results with Efke and not so much Tmax. Now in 8x10 land the opposite; but it's probably me so I will try your suggestions.

It's really to bad Kodak dumped Tech Pan and Technidol. I shot some 35mm TP this weekend and in Technidol the results are very nice. Good red response that film.

Thanks again,

Tim

[Tim Povlick]

I think the color issue is a "red herring" (pun intended). Efke 25/50 as less sensitive to reds, but not completely blind to reds. I've found that Efke 50 shows slightly better separation between various shades of reds and yellows, in a comparison test to other films like FP4+ and Foma 100, but not totally dissimilar.

The real problem may be under exposure. While Tmax does well at box speed, I think the Efke 25/50 films do better with more exposure.

Kevin.

Yes, Wallace mentioned to hit the film a bit more in exposure so next time out I will go an extra f-stop. The light conditions when I took the images were on the red side as was the landscape so it probably played some factor.

I have been working the process kinks out in 4x5 and using a Jobo 3010 can pretty much nail things every time. Then switching to 8x10 it's like I was struggling all over again. I was almost thinking f/32 in 4x5 is not the same as f/32 in 8x10 (ridiculous of course). To eliminate the shutter being a possible source of problem I taped a sheet of Efke-25 4x5 in the 8x10 holder and it was exposed okay, but this test was taken at noon and at my "test range" where I know exactly what object to meter to get good exposure.

I think you guys gave me some good pointers to resolve this issue and I am most appreciative.

Best Regards,

_ .. --
TiM

[John Cahill]

FWIW, a film souped in D25 requires at least a full stop more exposure than the same film souped in, say D23 or D76.

[Wallace_Billingham]

Another film you should try is Efke 100. Unlike the 50 and 25 it has very good sensitivity to red light. I find it to be an awesome film for Landscapes

[Tim Povlick]

FWIW, a film souped in D25 requires at least a full stop more exposure than the same film souped in, say D23 or D76.

wow! I didn't realize that and the datasheet with the developer didn't mention this. The datasheets usually mention if there is a speed change. What's bad on my part is I was originally using the D25 chemical kit as a D23 by leaving out one ingredient. This time I decided to throw it into the batch and make D25. I am not sure what I will do next time I mix the chemicals, probably go D-23

A big thanks for that tid bit as I have read the Film Developing Cookbook cover to cover 5 times and didn't see that in there (be that as it may, it's a great resource).

Next time out the chute I'll probably go 2 stops extra a try.

Thanks!

Tim

[Tim Povlick]

Another film you should try is Efke 100. Unlike the 50 and 25 it has very good sensitivity to red light. I find it to be an awesome film for Landscapes

I was wondering about that and the Foma also. I ordered a box of the Efke 100 and will give it a go. Thanks again for all your help.


Best Regards,

Tim