Era, Shanghai, or something else?

[Tim Meisburger]

From Bangkok, I can order either fifty 4x5 sheets of ERA PSS 45 PAN ISO 100 (comes from Taiwan), or fifty sheets of Shanghai 100 ASA, for about $30.00 delivered. Right now I am finishing up my first order of Shanghai, but have no experience with the ERA film. Has anyone used both, and have an opinion on which is superior.

Also, I will be in the US later this month, and could buy film there from Freestyle, if I wanted. I have not used them in the past because shipping from the US makes their product much more expensive than buying film out of China. While I could get film from them this time, over the long run perhaps its better to stick with one film and use it regularly?

Any advice will be appreciated.

Tim

[Shen45]

Tim I have used both films and they are both very similar. Either film will give you good results. If you can get the Shanghai and you are satisfied with it go for that. I recently tried it in PMK and was more than happy with the results.

If you are going to be in the US Arista Edu Ultra is a great film and the price is very good at Freestyle. I personally would prefer the Arista to either the Era or Shanghai.

Steve

[Tim Meisburger]

Thanks Steve, that is helpful advice. I think I will buy some of the Arista regardless, as I would like to get some faster film, and I think they sell that in 400.

Best, Tim

[Gene McCluney]

Thanks Steve, that is helpful advice. I think I will buy some of the Arista regardless, as I would like to get some faster film, and I think they sell that in 400.

Best, Tim

The only ISO 400 speed 4x5 b/w films available right now are Ilford HP5+, Kodak T-Max 400, and Tri-X. Maybe Fuji Neopan 400 is available in Japan, I don't know.

[David Karp]

Arista.Edu-Ultra sheet film comes only in 100 and 200 speed. (It is Fomapan relabeled.)

They used to sell Arista.Edu sheet film in 400 speed, but it is no longer available. (That was relabeled Fortepan.)

Before that, they sold Arista Professional 400 in sheet film. That was HP5+. This has been unavailable as Arista film for a long time. (But I still have some in the freezer. :) )

So, the only 400 speed sheet film you will find at Freestyle are HP5+ and TMax400. The Tri-X in sheet film is 320.

[Tim Meisburger]

Thanks Gene and David. I think I will try the HP5+, as I have heard god things about it.

[Donald Qualls]

Of those three (320TXP, HP5+, and 400TMY), there isn't a bad film in the bunch. My own preference is for the Tri-X, but that's because some of my large format photography is with a Speed Graphic, hand held, and the ability to push Tri-X beyond all reason (I have a developer I call "Super Soup" that gives EI 5000, true speed close to 2000) becomes important. Shooting available light with f/5.6 and slower lenses requires all the film speed you can get... ;)

I do wish they're bring back either Foma branded or .EDU Ultra rebranded 4x5 film in ISO 400, though. Foma used to sell the 400 speed in 4x5 and 9x12 cm, at about 30% discount from Kodak and Ilford pricing, with the Arista rebranding running about half the Kodak/Ilford price. I can only presume they stopped producing the fast film in sheet form due to lack of demand... :(

[Tim Meisburger]

Thanks Donald. I am planning to buy a speed or crown while I am in the states next week just for hand held photography, so that is why I am interested in a faster film. I am pretty much a beginner in large format, and bought an Ikeda Anba field camera, which is light and great for landscapes, but I find I am missing the ability to capture the moment that I had with my old Olympus XA rangefinder (which I now use as a light meter), so, I figured what I really need is a bigger rangefinder!

Can you push the HP, or the Tri-X with D76 (the only developer I currently have access to)? I could buy something else when I am in the US, but they would probably shoot me if I took it though customs (No! Its developer! And this is a flash gun. No, not that kind of gun...). It always cracks me up when I go though immigration and they take away someones nail clippers. I have this mental image of someone high-jacking a plane with clippers (Back! Back!, or I'll nip you in the throat!). Sorry, it must be late...

[Donald Qualls]

You can push any film with any developer, near enough, but Tri-X (both 400TX and 320TXP) pushes better than any other film now available. My Super Soup isn't terribly complex to mix -- you'll need HC-110 concentrate (which you probably can get through customs in a check bag, or most likely buy locally in a major city like Bangkok -- or you can almost certainly use Ilfotec HC as a direct substitute), Dektol (which, if you can't buy it in Bangkok, can probably be substituted with locally available Ilford or other print developers -- just use the working strength solution in place of the Dektol in my formula, though I'd recommend testing your EI if you have to change the mix), vitamin C powder (ought to be available in any significant city on Earth) and washing soda (likewise, though it might be labeled as something else, "household soda" in Germany and Netherlands, for instance; as long as it's sodium carbonate monohydrate it'll work).

My formula for Super Soup is found here (http://silent1.home.netcom.com/Photography/Dilutions%20and%20Times.html#Super_Soup). It'll give up to about two stops with almost any film, but close to four with either breed of Tri-X (and you could probably adjust your agitation to get even closer to normal contrast and only take the one to two stops of real speed increase, if you have a situation where shadow detail is more important than mid-range).

With 320TXP loaded and Super Soup ingredients in your darkroom, the hardest part of shooting "available darkness" with a Speed or Crown is finding a meter that will read into negative LV light levels.

[dazedgonebye]

Donald,
Could you point to shots processed with this formula?

Thanks,

[dazedgonebye]

btw, in the states, sodium corbonate monohydrate can be found as a pool chemical...locally called "PH Up."
The only problem is you get enough for 10 lifetimes.

[Tim Meisburger]

Thanks Donald.

I think this process is beyond my limited capacity at the moment. I don't have a darkroom, and am only a few weeks past developing my first negative. Still trying to figure out the difference between under-exposure and under-development, and to get consistently well-exposed negatives. It doesn't help that my shutter is untested, I bought my thermometer at the local dollar store, my cable release sticks, and I use my XA as a light meter, but hope I can rectify some of these deficiencies on this trip.

You would be surprised how difficult it is to get anything for film development in Bangkok these days. All of Asia has gone digital in a big way. The only places I could discover that sold developer were a dusty old shop in China town, and another shop somewhere in the north of the city that I could not find, but which was out of developer anyway.

Cheers, Tim

[Tim Meisburger]

Oh, I looked at the site you posted, and now realize its where the caffenol formula is listed. I have seen that before, and am going to try that, as I have a coffee table I made from coffee wood I cut from our farm in Indonesia, and want to do a still life of the table, with a cup of coffee from the farm on it, and developed in coffee. Thank you for that!

[buze]

In my experience Shanghai behaves almost exactly as fp4 for time, reciprocity and such. I was also able to push it to 400 fairly easily in Barry's 2 baths (Metol)

[Tim Meisburger]

That's interesting. So you just shoot at 400, then use the development times for the Ilford 400 ASA? Maybe I can try that with straight D76 when I get back from the US.

[buze]

I just added a few minutes to the time in the developer. The normal time in Bath A is 5 or 6 minutes -- for 400 I leave it over 10 minutes. The neg is more contrasty, as expected, but it still perfectly good...
You may need to experiment with your developer; shoot 4 identical negs at 400, and use dichotomy to settle on a time that gives you the best result...

[dazedgonebye]

I just added a few minutes to the time in the developer. The normal time in Bath A is 5 or 6 minutes -- for 400 I leave it over 10 minutes. The neg is more contrasty, as expected, but it still perfectly good...
You may need to experiment with your developer; shoot 4 identical negs at 400, and use dichotomy to settle on a time that gives you the best result...


I've been doing 4 minutes in each bath. I thought that after that, it was pretty much meaningless as the film would have absorbed all it could in bath A and exhausted itself in bath B by that time.

I'm looking for a faster alternative to FP4, but what you're saying seems to indicate I could just rate it at 400iso and "push" it in Barry's.
Do you like the negatives you get that way? Do you think they're as good as 400iso film?
Examples?