Victor Shutter on Premo Pony #4 [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

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vickersdc

31-Dec-2008, 08:43

Gene McCluney

31-Dec-2008, 14:51

I don't know why the lighter-fluid technique wouldn't work on it. I myself, prefer zero-residue contact cleaner available from electronics supply houses, followed with very judicious oiling if needed. I like to spray in the aerosol cleaner and saturate the shutter and have it actually flood out all the dirt and grime. It then evaporates to zero.

vickersdc

31-Dec-2008, 15:24

OK, thanks for that - I'll nip over to the electronics suppliers near here and get some of that rather than the lighter fluid. There's not exactly an awful lot to these shutters, so I'm hoping it's not going to put up much of a fight :rolleyes:

seawolf66

31-Dec-2008, 15:34

The only thing I cleaned on Pony Premo # 6 Camera shutter was the Tubes And Thats All and it works nicely BUT I do not know how accuretly it is.Enjoy the camera :

vickersdc

31-Dec-2008, 16:00

Hi Seawolf66: "Enjoy the camera" - you bet! I've every intention of using it, even if it might need a bit of judicious TLC before that can happen. I've already thought of several projects that I'd like to use it for...

Glenn Thoreson

31-Dec-2008, 17:01

The pneumatic tubes must be absolutely clean and dry. Do NOT put any oil on them. One is the timing mechanism that operates on the timed release of air, the one on the right if memory serves. The other is for a bulb hose to connect to. The timing tube is operated by a lever in the shutter which limits the amount of piston travel according to the set speed. There are actually few moving parts in these. They can work pretty well when in perfect condition, but after 100 years ?????? The last one I had gave me a perfectly consistent 1/25 at all speeds.

vickersdc

1-Jan-2009, 02:01

Thank you for the information Glenn. If there are so few moving parts in these shutters, what is it that causes them to malfunction? Is it just the accumulation of 100 years of dirt, oxidisation of the metal tubes? All of the above, or something else?

David.

Gene McCluney

1-Jan-2009, 17:59

Darren Kruger

1-Jan-2009, 18:36

Hi there,

I've just bought an old (Rochester) Premo Pony camera (5x4) fitted with a Victor shutter assembly. This shutter is a bit sticky and I'd like to service it - but can I use the old trick of a tiny drop of lighter fluid somewhere to loosen it up? Or is that just sacrilege?

Check the shutter and aperture blades to see if they are metal or something else. I've heard of bad things happening if they are not metal if you use solvents.

-Darren

vickersdc

2-Jan-2009, 02:59

Thanks for all the help - the next two questions (as I haven't started on the shutters yet) are..

Is it worth getting it professionally sorted out? If I were to send the Victor to a repair / service facility, can anyone suggest who I might use? Is there anyone around who can still work on these things (preferably UK, but I realise it's more likely to be US)?

I've also got a Kodak 620 that I'm pondering on taking the lens / shutter assembly off of and build a new lensboard for the Premo - that would give me a 101mm lens, but I'd need to check the lens coverage to make sure it covers the 5x4 film.

Cheers,
David.

Glenn Thoreson

2-Jan-2009, 17:10

Those shutters weren't all that good when they were new. Time hasn't done them any favors. I have literature from the late 1800s in which the cry for someone to make a reliable an accurate shutter is quite loud. What I have done is remount the old Rapid Rectilinear lens in a somewhat newer shutter. If I remember right, the cells will screw right into one of the smaller old Alphax shutters, Kodak Ball Bearing shutters (not much better than what you have) and maybe the small Supermatic shutters. The spacing needs to be the same as the old shutter. Aperture scale is a problem. The lens is great. Too bad about the shutter. I think you will find your 101mm lens won't cover 4X5.

vickersdc

5-Jan-2009, 07:01

Hi Glenn,

I did some 'highly scientific testing' of the 10.5cm f6.3 Kodak Anastigmat lens from the 620 camera, that involved removing from the camera, building a cardboard box with some 5x4 greaseproof paper at the focal distance and a viewing hole!

It seems to suggest that there is some slight vignetting in the corners, but other than that coverage is pretty good - of course I won't know for sure until I install it on the Premo and shoot some film; however (whilst not perfect) things are looking good... at least for playing around with!

Glenn Thoreson

5-Jan-2009, 19:08

Cool! Be sure to show us what you get. That lens will cover 4X5 well at very close distance. The 6.3 Anastigmat is supposed to be one of the best of the series.

vickersdc

21-Jan-2009, 09:01

Finally, after the seller sending out the camera a few days later than expected, customs getting hold of it for a few days, being delivered when there was no-one here and finally getting a note saying I couldn't have it until the customs had been paid I received my Premo. Or at least I would have done if the police hadn't stopped the postman from using the road as it was too dangerous due to ice!

Anyway, it's here now and the Bausch & Lomb lens is marked up Jan 6 91 (1891 I guess) and the Rochester pneumatic shutter assembly doesn't work at all. That's slightly disappointing as I thought it was just a slightly sticky shutter, but it doesn't even attempt to move the shutter blades.

So, one I worked out how to get that shutter / lens assembly off (I think it's just screwed on from behind), I'll work out a way of getting that Kodak 10.5cm lens on to it.

In the meantime, does anyone know where I could that lens/shutter repaired?

David.

vickersdc

21-Jan-2009, 12:11

OK, so I'm really not sure how to get the entire lens/shutter assembly off of the Pony Premo #4 - does anyone know how to do this please? :confused:

vickersdc

23-Jan-2009, 03:15

Shutter / lens is off and it's currently in two pieces ;-) Doesn't look all that bad inside as it happens.

vickersdc

28-Feb-2009, 17:05

I've been able to write up a short article on how I tackled the pneumatic shutter on my Pony Premo - if anyone is interested it can be found on the Creative Image Maker website at http://creativeimagemaker.co.uk/mod/resource/view.php?id=107.

Cheers,
David.

vickersdc

8-Mar-2009, 07:03

Here's just one of the paper negatives, shot using the Kodak lens...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3623/3338153252_e2b67293b2.jpg

GPS

8-Mar-2009, 12:14

...

In the meantime, does anyone know where I could that lens/shutter repaired?

David.

David, for someone who is into mechanics, the shutter is not difficult to take apart and to clean. That's usually what it needs to make it function again. Don't know if you have anybody around who could do it.
Unfortunately, that's just the easy part. The shutter, however poetical in its look, has an inherent construction flaw. The times can be all over the place if you just touch the timing cylinder in a wrong or even whatever way.

I once bought the shutter to make my own "antique" P&S camera, all in brass. I cleaned the shutter and measured it with the Calumet shutter tester. The results were not that bad (about 1/3 stop up to 1/25s or even 1/50s, the 1/100 was more like 1/50s) but they were absolutely inconsistent. The reason is in the construction itself - if the timing cylinder is slightly out of whack (its two parts, the outer and the inner cylinder, must be strictly parallel to each other) you can have 1s that takes several seconds and 1/100s long as a 1/2 s, or whatever. As the cylinder can slightly pivot around its attaching point if under pressure, you never know if it is in the "good" position or not.

There are even more issues with the construction, which the manufacturer "corrected" in a different point too, but that is yet another flaw...
Needless to say, I still have the shutter but no camera made, it would be just a waist of film... Pity, it's a nice piece visually.