20x24 lens sources, choices, guides

[rldeal]

I just acquired a wonderful old 20x24 camera. It included a Zeiss Jena 450mm/f9 copy lens, which seems a bit wide for my taste. I am interested in purchasing a slightly longer lens with a shutter. What are the best sources for lenses that will cover 20x24? Also, is there a published guide to conversions from 20x24 lenses to 35mm equivalents? Even a general guide would help quite a bit (wide, normal, etc.).

[Toyon]

Lensandrepro has a wide selection of lenses, as well as glennview.com. Check out mamutphoto.com for a list of compatible lenses.

[Monty McCutchen]

rideal,

Tracey Storer will probably see this thread and chime in with his expertise but if not pm him as he is very generous with his time and knowledge. Having run the 20 x 24 Polaroid Camera in San Francisco and now making 20 x 24 camera's for purchase you couldn't get a better source of information.

My experience is much less but my kit of lenses for my 20 x 24 camera is as follows;

550 Schneider XXL still wide for the format and very expensive but it is a wonderful lens for the format. Double coated and in a Copal 3 Great for portraits. Wisner wrote an article about how the shorter lenses work better for portraits due to bellows extension and I can attest to that. There is little to no distortion that is common to smaller formats and wider lenses for close up work/portraits

1000 Germinar Single coated Contact Really Big Cameras on this site to see if he has any more. 750 Germinar would also cover

I have a 750 Nikkor Process lens that will cover and is much longer obviously than the Jena but it goes soft at the edges. (If you want a longer lens on the cheap side that will get you shooting PM me and we can work something out reasonably as I don't use this lens anymore). It's not a great lens on the format (similar to the Jena I would suspect) but it is adequate, depending on subject matter.

In Brass Lenses I have a 30 inch Dallmeyer Rapid Rectilinear that I shoot wet plate collodion with.

600 Fuji C will cover but not with very much movement (I traded this lens to help pay for the 550).

If you are shooting close ups with long lenses though remember you will have to have some serious bellows extension.

PM if you want more info,

Good luck,

Monty

[Tracy Storer]

Well "rldeal",
congrats on the camera, what is it exactly?
As far as lenses go: what you're planning to shoot will dictate what lenses will work for you. If you want to shoot landscapes, you'll need lenses that cover at infinity, portraits only and you'll be able to get away with a lot.
The idea of comparing lenses to other formats, especially when you're talking about bigger and bigger formats, only has a bit of relevance for distant subjects and virtually none for closer work. Keep in mind that when the film is this big, even mid-distance landscapes can approach "close-ups." (that is to say that the image size approaches the object size)

Let us know what you plan for your big camera and we can give you a little more help.
Also, search the forum, search my past posts, and Montys, and Sandy Kings for some background reading.

[erie patsellis]

Tracy,
As I get closer to first light with my 20x24, I've started doing more digging into the lens issue.
Have you ever used the 21 1/4" Ektar? Any opinions?

I have tried a 360 Componon on 16x20, worked well (though wide) as well as a 19" RD Artar. Have you tried any of these on 20x24 or am I getting close to the limits with 16x20 as it is?

erie

[sanking]

The 450mm Nikkor M will cover if you stop down to f/45, but the image will be very soft on the corners. The 600mm Fujinon C also covers, but again the image is soft on the corners.

Like Monty I have the 550 Schneider XXL, a wonderful lens but very expensive. I also have a 30" Red Dot Artar that covers well. Any process lens of 35" or more should cover very well and these lenses would probably be your best buy.

Any Dagor of 19" or more should cover. A 24" Dagor would be great, but longer Dagors tend to be very expensive.

For a really exotic look you might also consider a zone plate lens. A friend made me a 580mm zone plate for the 20X24" Richard Ritter camera that I use and I have made some pretty interesting negatives with it, though I have not printed any of the work.

Sandy King

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Tracy,
As I get closer to first light with my 20x24, I've started doing more digging into the lens issue.
Have you ever used the 21 1/4" Ektar? Any opinions?

I have tried a 360 Componon on 16x20, worked well (though wide) as well as a 19" RD Artar. Have you tried any of these on 20x24 or am I getting close to the limits with 16x20 as it is?

erie

erie, I have a nice 21 1/4" Ektar that I use but it is for my smaller format 8x20. Has a lot of coverage at infinity. I've never measured it. Great lens, I think. I've also got a Ilex 21 1/4" process lens for the 11x14 and it is a great lens also. Try it out.

Jim

[Ole Tjugen]

That camera sounds like a good excuse to get a Suter Aplanat Serie B No 8...

[Mark Sawyer]

Perhaps the longer configuration of a convertable lens would work also. Single components of dagors and plasmats generally make nice lenses, whether the manufacturer recommends them as such or not.

[sanking]

Single components of convertible lenses have not worked well for me with ULF formats where extreme coverage is needed. Coverage with the combined elements, which is in the 70-85 degree range with these lenses, drops to 50 degrees or less with the single element.

Sandy King




Perhaps the longer configuration of a convertable lens would work also. Single components of dagors and plasmats generally make nice lenses, whether the manufacturer recommends them as such or not.

[erie patsellis]

For a really exotic look you might also consider a zone plate lens. A friend made me a 580mm zone plate for the 20X24" Richard Ritter camera that I use and I have made some pretty interesting negatives with it, though I have not printed any of the work.

Sandy King

Sandy,
thanks for the tip, I'll have to give it a try, nice thing about having an imagesetter at work....


erie

[Tracy Storer]

Erie,
I have NOT used a 21.25" Ektar, and doubt the value at or near infinity of the 360 Componon or 19" RDA for anything bigger than around 11x14.
However, I routinely use lenses that no where near cover at infinity for close up work..(I've shot 20x24 with a 50mm enlarging lens...@20+times life-size)..and I'll state this for the new people, as you extend the bellows to focus on closer subjects, the image circle gets much bigger.

I'm with Sandy on the limited value of converted lenses unless you've got a lens that covers (or close) unconverted to begin with.

As far as lenses that cover only when stopped down to 45-64, sometimes you just can't get the aperture you need depending on subject, lighting etc. When I tried a Nikon 450M on 20x24 we were doing an editorial fashion shoot and couldn't pass f/32 with our soft lighting and only got 3/4 length and closer portraits.

I envy both Sandy and Monty their 550's. They sound amazing.

[erie patsellis]

Tracy,
I've found as I moved up in format, my aestetic seems to move more towards the east coast style, intimate details instead of grand vistas. ]

Of course at 16x20 I've found I'm getting pretty close to 1:1 to 1:2 for a lot of subjects, so I can likely get away with a lot more than at infinity.

I'm quite envious of Sandy and Monty as well, I'd sell the wife and kids to get one, but I suspect I'd have to pay instead of getting paid, have to look at another approach, I think.

[rldeal]

Thank you very much for the fast replies. The camera is an old copy camera from 1929. The manufacturer escapes me now. I plan to shoot mostly available light portraits and some landscapes. I would like to be able to have 1-2 lenses that will be versatile enough to do both well.

[rldeal]

By the way, what is a zone plate lens?

[sanking]

See http://www.zeroimage.com/web2003/ProductPage/Accessories2003/zone_plate2003.htm

Do a google for lots more info.

Sandy


By the way, what is a zone plate lens?