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Paul Bujak
9-Dec-2008, 09:33
Has anyone received their box of the new Lodima paper yet?

matthew blais
9-Dec-2008, 10:43
Nope...i thought I read where it was shipping yesterday so should be soon.

Merg Ross
9-Dec-2008, 11:00
Last word was that it was shipping on December, 8.

Paul Bujak
9-Dec-2008, 11:58
Thanks. You might think I was anxious or something! :o

John Bowen
9-Dec-2008, 17:09
Michael stated they were going to BEGIN shipping then on 12/8. It may take a few days to get 250 shipments out the door. With any luck, mine was shipped on Monday and will arrive at my door tomorrow.....

Jan Pedersen
11-Dec-2008, 18:11
Do Not Disturb


See ya later!

Vaughn
11-Dec-2008, 18:56
Do Not Disturb


See ya later!

Ooohhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fred L
11-Dec-2008, 18:59
ohh indeed....if it doesn't get here tomorrow, it's gonna be a loooong weekend

Erik Larsen
11-Dec-2008, 19:26
Congrats Jan! I don't know how that UPS truck went right by me in Colorado and forgot to drop mine off on it's way to Oregon:)

Michael Kadillak
11-Dec-2008, 19:27
Do Not Disturb


See ya later!

Thanks for sharing Jan. Have fun with the paper and let us know what you think ot it.

I hope to get mine shortly as I am sure a host of other people are as well.

Seeing that logo on a box of actual product is the product of countless hours or sheer determination on the part of Michael and Paula. God bless em.

When people see the results that this paper can produce, get ready to have an early Christmas. I have seen what are ascribed as some of the best digital prints made and none can hold a candle to the depth and substance contained within a quality silver chloride photograph. It is in a class all its own.

Pass the word because the next step is for us to step up and make the serious commitment to formal full scale production. My hope is that the test run will appropriately grease the skids for the real deal.

Cheers!

vinny
11-Dec-2008, 19:45
Looking at the photo Jan posted, it confirms the rumor I heard last year about the paper being made by the same company that made jandc film/paper. If you have some classic pan 8x10 sheet film lying around, look at the packaging. The packaging is identical.

David A. Goldfarb
11-Dec-2008, 19:53
J&C Classic 400 was made by Forte, and they are out of business, so it wasn't them. J&C 25, 50, and 100 films and Nuance paper were made by Efke, and it could be them.

John Bowen
11-Dec-2008, 20:12
ohh indeed....if it doesn't get here tomorrow, it's gonna be a loooong weekend

Ditto

BarryS
11-Dec-2008, 20:53
I hope my box is packed in a waterproof package--otherwise it gonna get a hell of a presoak.

Jan Pedersen
11-Dec-2008, 21:09
No, i am not saying anything :D Should be up to all the exited people waiting and waiting and finally get to dip the paper. No, bribery will not do it. :rolleyes:

Turner Reich
11-Dec-2008, 21:52
It should come by USPS and not UPS if I'm not mistaken.

Jan Pedersen
11-Dec-2008, 22:04
It is shipped UPS in the USA but i had to make a special arangement with MAS. (Thanks Michael) Will be leaving town and was worried that the paper could be at my front door soaking in the rain for quite some time.

Michael Kadillak
11-Dec-2008, 22:30
Looking at the photo Jan posted, it confirms the rumor I heard last year about the paper being made by the same company that made jandc film/paper. If you have some classic pan 8x10 sheet film lying around, look at the packaging. The packaging is identical.

This is a first for the large format forum. A picture of packaging confirms a rumor about where a product is being made. Good grief.

Let me squelch this wild postulation before it gets legs.

In the bigger scheme of things if it is a quality product who really cares where it is produced?

Time to get back to making photographs.

Onward!

Turner Reich
11-Dec-2008, 23:33
Is it repackaged Azo? :eek:

Michael Kadillak
12-Dec-2008, 07:26
Is it repackaged Azo? :eek:

It is better than Azo. Two words pretty much sum things up -

DOUBLE WEIGHT

David A. Goldfarb
12-Dec-2008, 09:37
In the bigger scheme of things if it is a quality product who really cares where it is produced?

In the bigger scheme of things, if it is a quality product, what is there to hide?

Some of us have an interest in knowing what that these factories around the world are capable of producing, and whether they are doing business successfully.

Knowing the source also has implications for stability of production, whether we should buy a lot up front and freeze just in case it disappears or whether we can count on a fresh consistent product being available as we need it.

John O'Connell
12-Dec-2008, 10:10
Knowing the source also has implications for stability of production, whether we should buy a lot up front and freeze just in case it disappears or whether we can count on a fresh consistent product being available as we need it.

Not every query on this board about a manufacturer or distributor is an attempt to convince commercial players to abandon us. Sometimes people just need information on how to proceed with long-term projects that require some continuity in materials.

Additionally, even if people were only interested in MAS's OEM for the paper out of idle curiosity, that would be a legitimate reason. Me, I'd like to know because if Lodima turns out to be excellent, then I'd be more likely to try that OEM's products; and if (heavens forbid) it has issues, then I'd like to know how to avoid similar problems in the future.

vinny
12-Dec-2008, 10:11
In the bigger scheme of things, if it is a quality product, what is there to hide?

Some of us have an interest in knowing what that these factories around the world are capable of producing, and whether they are doing business successfully.

Knowing the source also has implications for stability of production, whether we should buy a lot up front and freeze just in case it disappears or whether we can count on a fresh consistent product being available as we need it.

Yes, what David said.

I wouldn't have mentioned the rumor I heard if I hadn't immediately thought the packaging looked exactly like a box I have in my freezer. What other companies use that box/label? I don't know.

Michael Kadillak
12-Dec-2008, 10:12
In the bigger scheme of things, if it is a quality product, what is there to hide?

Some of us have an interest in knowing what that these factories around the world are capable of producing, and whether they are doing business successfully.

Knowing the source also has implications for stability of production, whether we should buy a lot up front and freeze just in case it disappears or whether we can count on a fresh consistent product being available as we need it.

Those that have invested thousands of hours bringing this marvelous product to fruition have the right to use this intelligence as they see fit. If they chose for any reason (contractual requirement or not) to not share this with the business community that is their earned right and we should respect that. Photowarehouse never once formally admitted the source of their sheet film yet the marketplace embraced it for as long as it lasted.

While a brand new modern silver chloride paper has been produced from scratch on double weight paper that is even better than Azo, the fact of the matter is that M&P have only sold a limited test run. It is only a short jog around the block from a business perspective. The challenge is if after people have a chance to print with it, will sufficient sales be encouraged from these results such that a formal production run can be justified? Being perfectly honest there is no multi million dollar corporation that is capable of carrying this investment over time. That is the reality we are facing. But that is concurrently the good news. This project was accomplished because of the fact that a large well funded corporation was NOT involved. It is what it is and I am absolutely elated at the prospects.

I am looking at this with the expectation that the very unique nature of this opportunity mandates that it be considered nearly as a one time opportunity. In order to attain desired economies of production, each formal major production run will produce large quantities of Lodima. The commitments to realized sales will drive the whole process and it is no mystery that each production run including the first one will be dependent upon financial participation of the consuming markets. This is not a scare tactic but open and honest communication on this subject. Longevity of the paper is proported to be many years as was the case with Azo.

After you have the opportunity to print with this paper I hope that everyone get ready to step up to the plate and make a significant formal commitment to Lodima and therefore I want to provide as much lead time as possible to this end result. Get your cards in order please. That is what I am doing as well.

Cheers!

Mark Sawyer
12-Dec-2008, 11:18
It is better than Azo. Two words pretty much sum things up -

DOUBLE WEIGHT

Are you sure it isn't "double wait"? :D

But for those who long for the Azo look, I bet it's worth it...

John Bowen
12-Dec-2008, 12:26
Santa arrived today....Thanks Michael & Paula.....

Happy Holidays

IanMazursky
12-Dec-2008, 13:03
I received my box today!
Time to stick under the Chanukah bush with other good stuf that the UPS man brought.

Turner Reich
12-Dec-2008, 13:38
Michael, it's called transparency.

Kirk Keyes
12-Dec-2008, 15:40
What other companies use that box/label?

"Generic" brand contact paper uses that packaging. I think I saw a box of it sitting on the shelves in the movie "Repo Man"... ;^)

Michael Kadillak
12-Dec-2008, 20:54
Michael, it's called transparency.

Transparency is what we need for multi national swap dealers in complicated financial transactions to assess risk.

There is no risk here necessitating such disclosure as this is a one dimensional photographic product. What you see is what you get.

This is a fabulous product. Make some prints with it and smile. Don't get hung up on the inconsequential. M&P have reasons for what they do and don't do on our collective behalf.

No harm, no foul.

Cheers!

Andrew O'Neill
12-Dec-2008, 21:54
You guys are making a big deal out of nothing...This is one Christmas present that I have been anxiously waiting for for a couple of months now...hurry up Canada Post!

David A. Goldfarb
12-Dec-2008, 22:03
Mine just arrived, and I'm looking forward to testing it alongside my stash of Azo.

The packaging is not the same as the Nuance graded paper from J&C, manufactured by Efke, which also came in a white box with a plain label. The cardboard of the Lodima box is heavier than the Efke box and has thumb tabs on the side, and the paper is in an opaque plastic sleeve, like Ilford paper, rather than a folded paper packet. The Lodima box is also taped more securely.

David Karp
12-Dec-2008, 22:51
There is nothing wrong with speculating, or with wanting to know where this stuff comes from, even if M+P will never tell. But the box may not tell us anything. For all we know, M+P specified certain requirements for the box, and their supplier went to their box supplier and had them produce what M+P asked for.

PhotoHistorian
12-Dec-2008, 22:59
This is a new product and no one knows at this time what the quality of this product truly is. This product to date has been labeled a "test run" for those of us who bought it. The jury is still out on whether it really is a replacement for Azo.
As for the claim the longevity of the paper is proported to be many years as was the case with Azo. That too is just a hope not a fact. Only TIME will tell if longevity of this new paper equals that of Azo.
Over photography's history many silver chloride papers were produced. But only Azo produced by Kodak seemed to have positive, long term, storage characteristics. Many such papers were produced but only Azo has a 100 year history.
Hopefully Lodima is the paper all of us hope it to be. But don't count your chicks before they hatch. Test is with an open mind and see what it really is...a success...or just another try at duplicating one of photography's classic papers.

John Bowen
13-Dec-2008, 09:28
I posted Scott Killian's 1st impressions (and mine too) on the Azo forum.

I'd like to hear what other's think, but believe the Azo forum is the place to hold these discussions.

Payral
31-Dec-2008, 15:04
Some comparative curves between Lodima #2 and Azo #2 both in Amidol for 1 minute.

http://payral.club.fr/lodima/Lodima.html

Michael Jones
31-Dec-2008, 15:16
Some comparative curves between Lodima #2 and Azo #2 both in Amidol for 1 minute.

http://payral.club.fr/lodima/Lodima.html


Thanks. These curves are useful information.


But for news you can't use, I just noticed the Lodima box is similar to an older box (at least 8 years) of Chicago Albumen POP paper. Gosh, another white cardboard packaging clue...

Mike

Turner Reich
31-Dec-2008, 16:14
I found out where it comes from and I am not surprised at all.

Sal Santamaura
4-Jan-2009, 14:04
I finally printed on Lodima FA test paper. Circumstances of life here severely limit my time available for photography or darkroom work. Therefore, although I have lots of Amidol on hand from Greg Davis’ group purchase, the convenience of Neutol WA (1:7) and TF4 (1:3) liquid concentrates wins out. I used that combination on the Lodima with a one minute developing time.

My negatives are not developed with a staining developer. I expose Canadian grade 2 Azo using a 38W bulb in a 10-inch Smith Victor reflector with clip-on diffuser. At the same 15-inch illuminant distance, Lodima FA required that I use a 60W bulb to stay in the same 17 – 20 second exposure range. Emergence time was 5 seconds, compared to 18 seconds for Canadian grade 2 Azo (the Azo gets 3 minutes in Neutol WA). I agree with Michael Smith's assessment that the contrast is grade 2-1/3.

In Neutol WA, this paper is warm! Canadian grade 2 Azo is a cold neutral in the same developer; I tone it for 3 minutes in Ilford HARMAN selenium toner 1:10 to solidify blacks and achieve the slightest hint of warmth. By contrast, Lodima FA has the same patent leather blacks and is almost brown right out of the developer. No need to tone Lodima.

Curl. Yeah, it sure does curl. In fact, while Lodima prints I made from 5x7 negatives were sharp, those from 6-1/2 x 8-1/2 negatives on 8x10 paper had areas of unsharpness. I attribute this to the weak springs on my larger printing frame being unable to hold the sandwich flat against the curl. I suspect a vacuum frame would overcome that problem but hope the manufacturer’s assurances to Michael and Paula that production runs won’t curl are lived up to.

I experienced almost none of the edge lifting reported by others when printing 5x7 and a little when using full 8x10 sheets. I suspect the problem was made worse by additional handling necessitated by curl with the larger paper.

Alan Rabe
5-Jan-2009, 14:48
Is this paper only for contact printing or can it be used for enlarging.

John Bowen
5-Jan-2009, 17:39
Alan,

There are a few who can enlarge with this paper. You need a powerful light source or else you will have exposures in the 5+ minute range. A gentleman developed an Azo cold light that was designed to enlarge on Azo. The head was tailored to put out the UV light that Azo responded to. I own one and have used it to enlarge on Azo. Durst also made a 5000 watt head that could be used to enlarge on Azo.

So, while it is possible to enlarge on Azo/Lodima, most folks just contact print with it. I have seen some lovely medium format contact prints on Azo. See the Azo forum for a category entitled Enlarging on Azo for more info.

Dennis
5-Jan-2009, 20:04
re enlarging
I was just testing the paper out this afternoon with 8x10 contact and for grins tried a 7x7 inch enlarged print from a 6x6 Rollei neg that is proper density and contrast for G2. With a 75 watt enlarger bulb in a condenser head on a Beseler 45mx and a 105 lens at wide open f5.6 I got a very nice print at 13 minutes. A bit long but it is a nice print. I printed the same negative also on kentona WT and on Oriental VC wt (with the condenser head in). the Kentona was the most contrasty, the Oriental the flattest. All made nice prints.

The infamous Lodima curl was pretty much like a U shaped piece of paper but the paper base is light enough that it is workable.

Michael Graves
6-Jan-2009, 14:16
Is there any word as to when the production runs of this paper will begin? I finally am in a position to try it, and they are sold out.

Michael Kadillak
6-Jan-2009, 14:18
Is there any word as to when the production runs of this paper will begin? I finally am in a position to try it, and they are sold out.

I believe on the Michael and Paula forum there was someone that was selling some test run Lodima paper - FYI

Dennis
6-Jan-2009, 15:26
After using four 8x10 sheets I have decided the paper is not for me. I can't sell it here as I have not been a member long enough. I put it up for sale on APUG this morning but so far no takers. I contacted Michael and Paula and they gave me a name of someone looking for it and I sent that person an email but haven't heard back yet. I will give that person first service but he might not accept my offer. I will wait a day to hear.
I am in Portland.
Dennis Purdy

Dennis
6-Jan-2009, 15:40
OK sorry I just heard from M&P's person and it is sold.

John Bowen
6-Jan-2009, 17:32
Is there any word as to when the production runs of this paper will begin? I finally am in a position to try it, and they are sold out.

There is/was also an unopened box for sale on Ebay. The seller was asking for his cost. I am not associated with the seller