8x10 could be so great if............

[Jordan]

If I could manage perfectly even development in smooth skies and the non-notch code edge of of my neg wasn't always lighter. First the development issue:
As long as I don't have an image with smooth skies my negs print great, however anything with a smooth sky shows unacceptable uneveness in printing. I use a 3005 jobo on a beseler motor base that only rolls in one direction with 1oz. of hc110 to 84oz. of water at 68 degrees for 9 minutes. I put 1200 ml of chemistry in the Jobo.

Now on to this weird darker edge on every one of my negatives..... something tells me this is happening during the actual exposure as it runs pefectly along the non-notch code side of every one of my 8x10 negatives. This looks like crap in contact prints. I have all brand new holders and a Phillips 8x10 Explorer. Could the camera cause this issue in any way. The bellows do appear to be glued on a little crooked.

I apologize for the rant and constant inquiries in to perfect 8x10 development. You guys are always a great resource. Thanks in advance.

[G Benaim]

Jordan,

What film and developer are you using? Can you post scans to see the edge problem?

[Gem Singer]

Are you reversing the drum on the Beseler roller after a few minutes so that final agitation is both forward and backwards? Agitating in only one direction while developing may be the problem.

I doubt if the slightly crooked bellows is the culprit. Doesn't sound like a light leak or film holder problem, either.

[Jordan]

I am using Tri-x in HC110. Will attach a negative scan to show the flaws.

[Steve M Hostetter]

Jordan,,, sounds like your processing drum is running out of level..

make sure you level the drum and not the tub the drum sits in..

Hope this helps you

[Steve M Hostetter]

I use small pieces of notepad paper to shim the tub .... remember the tub and drum will show different levels and you need to level the drum as it sits in the tub

[MIke Sherck]

You might try developing one sheet in a tray to see if the problem occurs there as well. You can do it in one tray.

Mike

[venchka]

Jordan isn't using a tub. My Beseler base has a leveling foot. I keep the fill end of my 3010 tank a hair high to aid in filling.

[Don Hutton]

Jordan,,, sounds like your processing drum is running out of level..

make sure you level the drum and not the tub the drum sits in..

Hope this helps youThe Beseler base is an electric rotating device - it doesn't "go in a tub" (unless you like the blue spark-sudden darkness thing). Using 1200mm of chemistry would completely negate any issues to do with perfect levelling of the drum.

Some bromide drag may be causing the uneveness in the skies - try picking up the drum and popping it back on facing the other direction every 30 seconds or so - this will effectively reverse the rotation direction and the action of picking it up should help to break up uneveness issues.

The other problem sounds like you're not inserting the darkslide parallel - if you insert one corner of the darkslide first, it effectively opens the lighttrap allowing light to enter - you need to insert it very close to parallel - this way as it opens, it is immediately closed up by the incoming darkslide. Most traps are simply a piece of spring metal covered in cloth - if you push down on it in any one place, the whole thing opens up - you need to make sure the darkslide enters it at the same time along the entire leading edge. This is a fairly common issue too. I'd check the camera too - into the darkroom with a maglight - check it with a holder inserted - perhaps the holders are not engaing the lighttrap recess on the camera back?

[Jordan]

To address all these great suggestions:
I have considered doing one sheet at a time in a tray........ this is how I started with 4x5 till I got a Jobo 3010 and was so pleased with the results I got from drum processing. I thought this would simply translate to 8x10 with the 3005 drum.

To the eye my drum appears level when on the Beseler Base. I use the raise/lower foot to compensate when I first start till it appears level. The base also has some wobble which I would assume is good for development...... but not sure.

As far as using 1200 ml in the drum on the motor base.... it doesn't quite hit 30 rotations per minute, more like 27-28. Could that be part of it?

The darkslide thing that Don mentioned may be exactly what my issue is as far as the line of more exposure along the non-notch code side.

Keep the suggestions going. I really do appreciate all your help.

[Gene McCluney]

If you really want to eliminate the Drum and base set-up as a possible contributor to your problem, just sacrifice one sheet of film. Expose a scene with plenty of sky, then develop in a tray, rather than the drum. Tray development gives very even results. If you still have the problem, then it is in your camera/lens/film holder. Oh, in either drum or tray development, for large format and even development, you should go thru a water presoak for at least a minute or two before going to the developer. This opens up the emulsion and allows for very even development when you go to developer.

It would be very helpful if you could upload a photo to this thread, so we can actually "see" what you are describing.

[Lenny Eiger]

I would try a different developer. Something smooth, like D-23. There are developers that make things easy and others that do not. Pyro is notorious for having issues with rotating drums, altho' many have worked out the kinks. I would say a stronger developer or stronger dilution would not be as ideal as a more dilute developer with a longer time... D-23 is very simple, having only 2 chemicals and would be one solution. There are many others. Simple formula is the trick... or plenty of dilution.

Lenny

[Brian Ellis]

Part if not all of your problem is rolling the drum in only one direction. You should reverse directions periodically, maybe every 30 seconds to a minute or so.

[Ed Richards]

Not hitting 30 rpm does not matter at all. Are you presoaking, i.e., putting water in the drum and letting it turn for 5 minutes before you put in the developer? If not, do that first thing and see it it helps. It fixed my uneven skies with 4x5. I also rotate in only one direction.

[Glenn Thoreson]

My roller base, whatever it is, has eccentric rollers so the drum gets rocked back and forth as it rotates. I still pick up the drum and turn it around every few. I think a good pre soak and reversing the drum will cure it. The problem is probably similar to what folks get by rocking a tray in only one direction. Laminar flow or some such thing.

[Steve M Hostetter]

Sorry Jordon I missunderstood you I thought you said you were using a Jobo


cheers

[Jordan]

I do presoak, sometimes for up to 5 minutes while I get the rest of my stuff set up. Perhaps it is because I don't reverse the direction often enough? I never had any of these troubles with 4x5. I went out today and photographed. I will either process tomorrow or this weekend. I sincerely do appreciate all of your guys' help.

[Allen in Montreal]

Part if not all of your problem is rolling the drum in only one direction. You should reverse directions periodically, maybe every 30 seconds to a minute or so.

Solid advice.

I switch my drum every minute on the minute.
I also add "Kill" film from junk sheets to keep the drum full on all runs the development action is always equal based on a reasonably constant square inches of film to amount of developer ratio.

[Allen in Montreal]

....... I use a 3005 jobo on a beseler motor base that only rolls in one direction with 1oz. of hc110 to 84oz. of water at 68 degrees for 9 minutes. I put 1200 ml of chemistry in the Jobo.
......

That seems like a fair bit of soup to be using in the drum at one time. I do not dilute as severally as you are but have you experimented with less solution?
I was taught, and it may be totally wrong, but it may be worth exploring, that less is more to get the most of the agitation concept with these drums.

I run with 600 mil in both D 76 1:1 and HC-110 (dil B).

[Steve M Hostetter]

I use 120ml in a "level" Jobo 2840 and it covers 2- 8x10's

[venchka]

I use 400ml to 800ml of Xtol 1:3 in a 3010 depending on the number of sheets I load. In fact, 800ml seems to be my all purpose quantity for Xtol or Rodinal. 800mml works well in a Paterson tank for 120. One less thing I have to remember.

I should add that I follow Kodak and Agfa information for minimum amount of developer.

Sometimes the lightbulb goes on...

Using 1,200ml may in fact completely fill the lowest 1 or 2 cylinders causing air bubbles to come burping out. Just a thought. I wish Jobo made a clear lid for the 3000 series Expert tanks. That would be fun to watch. Without film of course.

[tim o'brien]

Ya know Jordan, I looked at your prints on your web site. They look so New England. Not unlike my prints which use to look so New England but now look so Californian. The difference being, I am warm.

tim in san jose

P.S. Nice printing. I can feel the cold Boston area nights through your photographs.

[Tracy Storer]

Re: heavier exposure on one short edge of the film.....sometimes the "gate" opening in the rear frame or rear bellows frame can reflect image light back onto the film. Check that.....I glued a strip of black velvet inside a customers camera once to solve that.

[Ron Marshall]

I spoke to a Jobo tech for advice about hand rolling an Expert drum. The one thing he strongly emphasized, several times, was to make sure I change the direction of the drum. He recommended a change every 2.5 revolutions.

[Frank Doering]

If the dark stripe is about 1/8 to 1/4" wide, exactly parallel to the film edge, and does not extend into the non-exposed film edge, it may be caused by light bouncing off the shiny inside edge of holder.

[Michael A. Smith]

Frank Doering has it right if I understand your problem correctly. If the dark line (clear area on the negative), I assume, is a thin line, then it is definitely a reflection from the plastic holder you must be using. Take a piece of emory cloth and rough up the top part of the "v" of the holder in the flap end.

Michael A. Smith