Director's Viewfinder?

[jamesw]

Does anyone use a director's viewfinder, or similar device, to preview framing/lens choice when working in 4x5? I've come across several designs, but they're all used in the movie industry so the engravings are all for 16/35mm, and usually movie type aspect ratios. I wondered if anyone had found one that could be used to pre-vis 4x5 before setting up the camera/lens...

[Arne Croell]

The Linhof viewfinder has been around in different versions for about 50 years or more. there are versions for 4x5 as well as 6x9 cm. Search the forum for Linhof viewfinder.

[Joanna Carter]

I use a simple device which can be fashioned from two bits of cardboard, plastic, metal, etc:

Create one rectangle 4" x 5" and cut a hole in the middle that is 2" x 2-1/2"; then cut a 1/2" deep slot, that will take the thickness of the other bit of card/plastic/metal.

Create a strip with similar slots, spaced at half the lens distances from one end.

insert piece 'a' into one of the slots in piece 'b' and place the end of the strip you started measuring from on your cheek, below your eye. You should get an approximation of the view for any of the chosen lenses.

What's more, it can cost you as little as nothing :D

[Bruce Barlow]

I have a Zone VI viewing filter (actually, several in different cars and places). I often wear one around just to look at things and play with composition ideas. I call it "The View form the Couch," which is where I first started playing that way. My everyday one has the filter smashed out, and has only a hole.

Mr. Ritter and I have workshop students make and calibrate a viewer out of a piece of 8x10 mat board with a 3 1/2 x 4 1/2 inch hole. They learn to accurately mark an attached piece of string to denote how far from the eye to hold it for different lenses.

I have one that's 35mm size for...35mm! It doubles as a proof sheet viewer, allowing me to look at one frame at a time, which is what it mostly gets used for. I find that I use 35mm for speed and ease, so using a viewer defeats those purposes. But for looking at proofs, it's indispensable. The overall size of the mat board piece is about 4x6.

Viewers are wonderful tools. Leave the camera in the car, find and mark the spot using the viewer, then lug minimal gear, because the viewer helped you make a lot of decisions (format, lens, tripod position, composition).

The expensive director's viewers would be nice, but there's no need to spend any money, and I'll bet you'll learn a lot more making and learning how to use your own.

[Joanna Carter]

Mr. Ritter and I have workshop students make and calibrate a viewer out of a piece of 8x10 mat board with a 3 1/2 x 4 1/2 inch hole. They learn to accurately mark an attached piece of string to denote how far from the eye to hold it for different lenses.
I see, typical American, stealing our British ideas :p :cool:

[Bob Salomon]

"The Linhof viewfinder has been around in different versions for about 50 years or more. there are versions for 4x5 as well as 6x9 cm. Search the forum for Linhof viewfinder."

Also for 5x7

[BennehBoy]

I'm quite interested in creating my owner viewer for 8x10, just not sure I can follow the instructions above so well, does anyone have a link to something with images?

[jamesw]

Thank you everyone, very informative! I'll check out the Linhof viewers, but I am interested in the 'home-made' types also. I'll second the request for some images of what you're describing though, it's hard to visualize it without any images to go by... ;)

[Sevo]

These days, I've mostly gone over to simply using a digital compact (GX100, to be exact) for previews and framing studies - that way I can recheck the image I saw any time further down the process and processing. And it delivers a better B&W preview than that Wratten 90 approximation whenever I want to...

Sevo

[ic-racer]

I'm quite interested in creating my owner viewer for 8x10, just not sure I can follow the instructions above so well, does anyone have a link to something with images?

http://www.cameraposition.com/podcast/images/ViewCard.jpg

[BennehBoy]

Thanks - so for an 8x10 viewcard, I start with an 8x10 card and cut out a 3 1/2 x 4 1/2 hole yes? (or is that for 4x5?) How does the string length correlate to focal length, directly, or halve?

[Joanna Carter]

Thanks - so for an 8x10 viewcard, I start with an 8x10 card and cut out a 3 1/2 x 4 1/2 hole yes? (or is that for 4x5?) How does the string length correlate to focal length, directly, or halve?
Not quite. Start with a 4x5 card with a 2 x 2-1/2 hole. Then the length of the string should be 1/4 the focal length of the lens.

[BennehBoy]

Great, thanks Joanna.

[Lachlan 717]

Whilst it's not technically a Directors' viewfinder, you will find a 4x5 zooming here (http://www.gaoersi-camera.com/htm.php?nowmenuid=3301). There also appears to be an 8x10 zoom finder (attached to the 8x10 camera); however, it is not individually listed.

Lachlan.

[BennehBoy]

http://benneh.net/oomz/vcard.jpg

My quickly assembled viewing card.

[jamesw]

Thanks everyone!

Now I've seen images of what you mean, I think those cardboard cutout viewfinders with string are a brilliant idea. You just saved me about £150 :)

Does the same rule apply for different formats? Like could I use a piece of card and string for previewing framing for my 35mm work?

[Paul Kierstead]

Does the same rule apply for different formats? Like could I use a piece of card and string for previewing framing for my 35mm work?

Other then being a bit of a limited view, sure. If you do it at full scale, you'll have something like a 24mmx36mm hole at, say, 50mm (for a 50 mm lens). Not as nice as viewing the scene through a much bigger hole.

For any format, the simple one is cut a hole the size of the format and use a piece of string the length of the lens. Scale up or down (both) as desired, just maintain the relationship.

[Bill_1856]

For less the $50 you can get (used) a LEICA IMARECT finder. Although the aspect ratio is wrong (2:3 instead of 4:5), once calibrated for your focal lengths it works quite well.

[jamesw]

Other then being a bit of a limited view, sure. If you do it at full scale, you'll have something like a 24mmx36mm hole at, say, 50mm (for a 50 mm lens). Not as nice as viewing the scene through a much bigger hole.

For any format, the simple one is cut a hole the size of the format and use a piece of string the length of the lens. Scale up or down (both) as desired, just maintain the relationship.

So possibly a 48x72mm hole and the focal length would be half the length measured on the string?

[jamesw]

For less the $50 you can get (used) a LEICA IMARECT finder. Although the aspect ratio is wrong (2:3 instead of 4:5), once calibrated for your focal lengths it works quite well.

How would one calibrate it? I don't know I think it might be confusing to try and frame in a differet aspect ratio, although I suppose one might 'mentally mask' to a certain degree...

[Paul Kierstead]

So possibly a 48x72mm hole and the focal length would be half the length measured on the string?

Correct. As you have noticed, it is a zoom viewfinder :)

[butterflydream]

I bought a chinese made zoom finder from ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Linhof-Technika-Style-4x5-Universal-Zoom-View-Finder_W0QQitemZ170276322119QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cameras_Photographic_Accessories?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

It has a bit distorsion at wide angle but it works.

[jamesw]

Correct. As you have noticed, it is a zoom viewfinder :)

Oh yeah, and I'm gonna look the bees knees with that hangin' round my neck! :cool:

[jamesw]

I bought a chinese made zoom finder from ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Linhof-Technika-Style-4x5-Universal-Zoom-View-Finder_W0QQitemZ170276322119QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cameras_Photographic_Accessories?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

It has a bit distorsion at wide angle but it works.

Thanks, I'll consider it if the cardboard method is not working out for me!

[Joanna Carter]

Oh yeah, and I'm gonna look the bees knees with that hangin' round my neck! :cool:
You obviously haven't joined us on a UKLFPG outing then :D :cool: :rolleyes:

[Bruce Barlow]

Wow. Many seem to make it harder than it needs to be. Here are simple, and extensive, step-by-step instructions:

1. Start with any size card that's convenient, and any size square hole that matches the aspect ratio of the film: 4x5/8x10, 5x7, 24x36 for 35mm, 7x17, 20x24, square, etc. Smaller is actually easier. My 4x5 viewer hole is 1"x 1 1/4". The total size is about 3" round. My 35mm hole is actual 35mm film size (see previous post for use with proof sheets).

2. Set up the camera on a tripod with any lens, and focus it, framing identifiable landmarks at either side of the image. I like tree trunks because I have a lot of them handy. One on the right, one on the left.

3. Hold the viewer up above the camera at the plane of the ground glass or viewer eyepiece for baby cameras.

4. Close one eye and look through the hole in the viewer.

5. "Focus with your Face," meaning, move your face towards or away from the viewer until your eye sees the same view (landmarks at the edges) that the lens sees in the groundglass. Keep the viewer on the vertical plane of the gg - move your face, not the viewer.

If you're disturbed that the image on the GG is upside down, turn the card 180 degrees...:=)

6. When you've focused your face, extend the string to the cheekbone below your open eye and make it taut. Mark the string where it touches your face with a Sharpie. If your string is long enough, it can serve as a viewer necklace if you loop it and tie it.

If your hole is small enough, you can also pin the viewer between fingers and salute. So, f'rinstance, my 1"x1 1/4" hole, pinned between my pinkie and third finger, gives me a 210mm lens on a 4x5 camera when I salute and look thru the viewer. Between index and middle fingers gives me 120mm, and between middle and third gives me my 355mm on Alice, my 8x10 camera. Close enough for photography.

Total elapsed time: about two minutes if you're clumsy the first time. Subsequent lenses will take less time.

7. Repeat with other lenses.

This exercise, illustrated, is in my ebook "Finely Focused."

Joanna, I didn't know we "stole" it from the British. I distinctly remember stealing it from Ansel's book over twenty years ago. Maybe he stole it from over the Big Pond. I'll let you ask him.

The real fun is taking your viewer everywhere, and just looking at the world. That argues for a smaller card and hole (a smaller one looks less dorky - maybe use black mat board? My black plastic Picker Medallion lives inside my shirt until needed), but smaller still works fine, and is easier to make and calibrate in some ways.

The taking it everywhere is the "View from the Couch" exercise written in the already-mentioned-where. It gives you the opportunity to explore and practice finding pictures and new composition ideas anytime, anywhere, film-and-equipment-and-cost free. If you find something really good, many times you can plan to come back. But I find it's great fun, and great practice. One need not stick to claibrated distances, either - break your own rules, and see what inspires you.

[Joanna Carter]

If you're disturbed that the image on the GG is upside down, turn the card 180 degrees...:=)
Hmmm, and I thought I had problems when the image on the GG started to appear the right way up ;-)


6. When you've focused your face
Now, that sounds like self-portraiture gone wrong :-)


Joanna, I didn't know we "stole" it from the British. I distinctly remember stealing it from Ansel's book over twenty years ago. Maybe he stole it from over the Big Pond. I'll let you ask him.
Ah well, it's obvious AA must have "acquired" the technique from a Brit, just like the US seems to have "acquired" so much technology <gd&r>

[Paul Kierstead]

Wow. Many seem to make it harder than it needs to be. Here are simple, and extensive, step-by-step instructions:


Heh, clearly different people consider different things "simple".

[z_photo]

i made a couple using Bruce's method. my only problem was when i rotated the finder 180 degrees around a vertical axis the image was still inverted! :D

[john borrelli]

I use the cardboard viewer method. Here is how I made mine. Now I do not leave home without it, and if I do, I turn back to get it. Total cost less than 5 dollars. I made this for a 4x5 camera but you could probably use it for 8x10 as well.

I went to a store and bought a black vinyl 3 ring binder. They are made for that looseleaf notebook paper with the three holes. They cost about a dollar. You separate the two sides and throw out the three ring binder part in the middle. You only need one of these 8x11inch sides but it is nice to have two in case you make a mistake in the procedure.

Next step is to get one of your throw away negs or slides. Center it on the notebook cover then trace it. I use a 4x5 so I trace that negative size, but I am sure you could make a 5x7 cut out or even try 8x10 if you use one of those formats instead.

For the hole you cut through the vinyl, then a piece of cardboard, the last cut will be the back side of vinyl. Please be careful cutting the hole.

After I made these cuts I took a good quality black electrical tape. I cut a piece of electrical tape to cover both the exposed vinyl sides and the cardboard of the hole I just cut. You don't have to be precise with cutting the binder as the tape covers the rough sides of the vinyl and cardboard very well. Use black tape and a black notebook so they match. I then covered the hole and a little bit of each of the sides with the black tape. I actually superglued the tape to the vinyl of the notebook binder material so it would not come off and it never has.

That is really it for the viewer. You just have to be careful cutting, but the material is easy to cut through.

I added a few extras that I think really make this viewer worthwhile. First I added a string for each of my three lenses. Some people use one string with knots for multiple lenses.

Most people are familiar with this string idea but for people who are not, If you own a 150mm lens on 4x5 camera you need a 6 inch long piece of string attached to your viewer. Look through the viewer that distance from the hole and you have the approximate view of the scene as your camera will record it with the 150 mm lens.

I recently purchased a 300mm lens, so I added a 12inch piece of string and a 90mm lens so I added a 3inch piece of string. For my viewer I put two tiny holes through the vinyl for each piece. I then put the piece of string through, I put a knot in the end and superglued the knot to the binder.

The way I did this was after I glued it in, I wrap the string around one side of the binder then cut the string to length using a ruler, this is so my viewing side was kept nice and clean with no visible glue or holes showing. So the length of the 6 inch string for example will be a few inches longer than 6 inches as it will wrap around the messy viewer's back side.

I suppose for an 8x10 camera you could make a 4x5 inch hole for your binder I guess you would just need to change the length of the string.

The last thing I did was I took one of those little luggage chain clasp thingies, put a small hole in the far corner of the viewer, glued this in and I use this to attach the viewer to my tripod bag, if I don't feel like carrying it.

The viewer is very durable. I have banged it around, fished it out of rivers, snow banks, etc. It is over 5 years old now, showing a little age but I could make another one in less than an hour if I ever need to. I think you will find this viewer to be cheaper lighter, more rugged, and the view will have a faster fstop than anything Nikon, Leica or Linhof could make!

[jamesw]

You obviously haven't joined us on a UKLFPG outing then :D :cool: :rolleyes:

Ah, so true! This is mainly because I'm only just buying my first LF gear, although maybe I should join when I'm finally using it - then I won't look so out of place with a big light box on my back and a bit of cardboard dangling from my neck!

It's interesting; even thinking about the process I'm going to have to go through in taking a decent 4x5 is making me consider the craft more deeply. I think with 35mm, although I try to be as careful as I can, it's so relatively easy to set up the camera, meter, play with the composition, DOF, etc., that one probably doesn't take quite as much care as if setting up a 4x5 and paying about &#163;5. I'm hoping this will be a good thing for me as a photographer, particularly for landscape and fine art work - although I'm expecting to take a while to get any good at it.

In this case, the thought was that I should have a better way of previsualizing what I want to shoot and the lens to be used before I unpack and setup a field camera; hence the question about viewfinders.

I must say I have been treated very kindly and everyone has been very helpful and informative on this forum while I've been asking questions about what gear I will need to buy and how to use it, so thank you everyone! This thread has been no exception; what a great amount of information and so many different practical solutions. I think I'll try a hybrid of some of the cardboard cutout viewers... I'm even going to try one tomorrow for my 35mm gear until my LF gear is ready to go... :)

[Wally]

I bought a chinese made zoom finder from ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Linhof-Technika-Style-4x5-Universal-Zoom-View-Finder_W0QQitemZ170276322119QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cameras_Photographic_Accessories?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

It has a bit distorsion at wide angle but it works.

That one was $290. There's another seller from China with the same zoom viewers for $89., and fixed viewfinders for $69.

See: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330249902225

[evan clarke]

I have the newest model viewfinder for the Technika and I love it. It's always in my pocket. My workflow is to walk around with just the viewfinder, consider my subject and then walk back to get my camera. During the walk I can think about the composition and exposure..Evan Clarke

[Jim Becia]

I use to cut my viewer from a small 3 inch disc (same size as the Quick Disk) and used it for years. It did double duty as a viewer and for bellows compensation with closeup work. However, I found it to be on marginally helpful when changing to other formats - 5X7 or 4x10. I located this "picture viewer" from Dick Blick. http://www.dickblick.com/zz049/95/

I've made markings on it to use with other formats and I also marked it with a circle notating the size of the quick disc so it works for that also. Water can't hurt it and the price is right. Jim