How rare are Karl Struss pictorial len's?

[Louis Pacilla]

Hi Folks

I was wondering just how many of these buggers were produced. I looked all over the web & even gave Jim @ Mid-West ( nice fellow )a call to see if he had any idea.

I picked up a 5x7 seneca view off of Cr. Li. . I was blown away to discover a Karl Struss Pictorial lens in the camera case. The seller informed me that the lens was included & then went on to tell say "you can just through this piece of junk out or make something out of the tube. "If you like, I'll be happy to through it in my scrap aluminum pile" .

The lens is a beauty it appears to be a 12". naked aluminum barrel Perfect glass Stops between f 5.5-22.

Any info on # made, how many years. I made a few Polaroids w/ this gem & man what a blast & I would like to hear from others who have made images w/ the help of a Struss lens.

I'll take my answer off the air.
Peace to all

[Mark Woods]

Why off the air??

[Ole Tjugen]

I have no idea about how many were made, but it sounds like a very interesting lens. :)

[Louis Pacilla]

Why off the air??

Kind of a joke , Ya Know? Talk radio, ask a question & take your answer off the air :) .

[Toyon]

Can you post a picture of the lens? Also, "throw", not "through," it took me a little while to make that one out.

[Steve Hamley]

It's considerably more valuable than the camera.

Steve

[Louis Pacilla]

Can you post a picture of the lens? Also, "throw", not "through," it took me a little while to make that one out.

Yep. have all kinds of trouble w/ spelling. Sorry.:(

I'll try to post a couple of images of the lens. I have it temped to a Linhof style board so I'll just photograph her on the camera.

be right back.
peace

[Louis Pacilla]

Hi Folks

See if this works out. Really not sure how to create a link to flicker but here we go...

Hopefully, some pics of the Struss.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32566276@N02/?donelayout=1

Peace...

Sorry about the horizontal - vertical. I just tossed the photos together & created a Flicker account in last few minutes so I could post some photos of the lens. Peace.

[Ole Tjugen]

What a nice lens. Seems like it could be one of the later ones with fused quartz glass!

[Mark Sampson]

Time for a Sinar shutter!

[Brian Bullen]

Wow!! Amazing find and I'm so glad no one threw it away. Not sure how many were made but yours looks really clean. Please post some of the polaroids for use to drool over.:)

[Louis Pacilla]

Time for a Sinar shutter!

Ya, Right...:cool:

[Toyon]

Wow, that's beautiful! Is that the first "smiley face" engraved into the lens between the 12 and the F? If so, that's an even more important find.

[Jan Pedersen]

Think we need to send some first aid over to Jim's house :rolleyes:

[Jim Galli]

Think we need to send some first aid over to Jim's house :rolleyes:

Been out doing field work most of today. I just finished a book about Karl Struss. He's an interesting study. Imogen Cunningham remarked in her book about people still doing productive work after the age of 90 that she found it a conumdrum how a conservative republican could have achieved a lifetime of creativity almost unmatched. This bias I understand. :(

No one really knows how rare the lens is. I'll make an educated guess that it is very uncommon. I've seen 3 in my years watching Ebay but that is hit and miss at best.

Suffice to say I cannot live without it. Contact me for a dazzling offer :D :D I'm seriously breaking the 10th commandment!

[Mark Woods]

Sweet! Already mounted on a Sinar board. ;-)

[C. D. Keth]

Any pictures taken with it? I'm more interested in pictures with the lens than picture of it.;)

[tpersin]

Ah Ha!

so you were the guy who beat me to the that kit here in SW PA! ;)

it was listed on Craigslist for only $125! for everything a 5x7" Seneca, the struss, and some other stuff.... what a steal... (it came with a packard shutter too!)

enjoy!
tom

[Charles Hohenstein]

I would love to know the optical construction of the lens. Any chance that a person could make one of these with lens elements available today? I suspect that it is very simple.

[Ole Tjugen]

Single meniscus lens, fused silica glass? You can't get much simpler than that!

The only question is the curvatures...

[Jim Galli]

Single meniscus lens, fused silica glass? You can't get much simpler than that!

The only question is the curvatures...

Ole was faster than me. Here's the diagram at Eric Beltrando's wonderful site (http://dioptrique.info/objectifs/00009/00009.HTM).

Did they mess with the curvatures to make them non achromatic? Don't know. I have an 1860's Darlot landscape meniscus that I use wide open at f6 and the effect is very nearly identical to the high priced spread.


http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/150Eidy/PuffBallsS.jpg
puff balls

[Ole Tjugen]

Jim, that's a doublet meniscus. From what I can find, Struss' lens was a single meniscus, which is really what you have in a cheap pair of reading glasses...

The page you linked to on Beltrando's site shows a typical Landscape lens. An Achromatic doublet. I believe the Struss lens is closer to this: http://dioptrique.info/objectifs6/00250/00250.HTM

[Jan Pedersen]

Would the double meniscus not be the layout of the Kodak Portrait 12" and 16" lenses?

[Brian Bullen]

Here is what the Vademecum says:
"Struss, K.
Sold by Fredk. W. Keasbey, Box 303, Morristown, N.J.,USA.
Struss Pictorial lens f4.0 This was a simple meniscus lens. Some information was given in Photominiature No184, and some biographical information in Modern Photo. 02/1977 p61. Struss was the camera man for "Ben Hur" in Hollywood, and developed the lens when still quite a young man. The initial design seems to have been glass.
Later versions in 1922 were made of 'natural' fused quartz, and were said to work at f5.6. One barrel could take a number of lenses interchangeably, or later there were up to 4 barrels for 2.0, 2.5, 3.0, 3.5in and elements for 5.0-21in focus. It was described as 'very soft but with firm delineation and sharpens up on closing down'. It was suggested to use 18in for 5x4in. (B.J.A. 1921, p782)."

[Jim Galli]

Fair enough and I don't have one to evaluate so for now, do a search on Mark Sawyer's 1F99 and 2F99 lenses. They would be the modern equivalent.

[jnantz]

what is the difference between a single meniscus lens like this one
and one that can be harvested off of a box camera or folder,
aside from the fstop scale, and the aluminium cannon/barrel ?

is it the diameter of the lens cell ?
( i'm thinking about 4x5 format, not anything bigger ) ..

thanks!

john

[Ernest Purdum]

Mostly the aperture. Early box cameras worked slowly. Soft focus lenses provide more diffusion at large openings and lthis is nedded to get the effects mostl people want.

[Jim Galli]

what is the difference between a single meniscus lens like this one
and one that can be harvested off of a box camera or folder,
aside from the fstop scale, and the aluminium cannon/barrel ?

is it the diameter of the lens cell ?
( i'm thinking about 4x5 format, not anything bigger ) ..

thanks!

john

Nothing really. Most are behind a 'throat' that throttles them to f11 where they are only marginally blurry. If you take them out and use them wide open they are very soft. The Japanese were doing this with Kodak's in 1917! Most are pretty shallow ie. about 4 inches for most of the little old folders.

[jnantz]

thanks ernest and jim ..
i had a feeling you were going to say
what you said.

:)

john

[goamules]

I think I've asked before, but can't find the answer. Is my Scovill Waterbury a single meniscus? It is throttled with a fixed washer stop, but that could be changed.....!

[Brian Bullen]

Garrett,
The Waterbury is what they used to call an "achromatic meniscus", basically a cemented doublet not a single meniscus.

[Chauncey Walden]

Eric Biggerstaff and I went to downtown Denver today to the Byers Mansion to see the new Laura Gilpin exhibit. Naturally, many of her earlier works were pictorial. A gentleman happened to stop by who had known Laura and represented her for some years. I asked him if the subject of what lens she had used for her pictorial work had ever come up. He said yes, the maker had started with an "s".... He also said that she had dropped it over the side of a boat in Europe and it had taken some time to get it replaced.

[Jim Galli]

http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/Harrahs121308/Vine_on_chainlinkS.jpg
vine on chainlink fence

Karl Struss Pictorial Lens on 5X7 Speed Graphic

Shot #2 with the lens Louis was gracious enough to sell / trade. Many more to come. I took it up to Harrah's auto collection and some of the stuff is out of this world.


THANKS!! LOUIS!!

[Jim Galli]

Oh, and fwiw, I was dead wrong in all of my guesses. From photos I was certain this and the 12" Pinkham Smith Series I lens would prove to have been made at the same place on the same day. In fact while there are slight similarities, the barrels are completely different, and while the pinkham is a single cemented doublet, the Struss is a single positive simple meniscus lens. The Struss lens get's much of it's flare from coma which is corrected in the Smith lens.

[Ole Tjugen]

what is the difference between a single meniscus lens like this one and one that can be harvested off of a box camera or folder, aside from the fstop scale, and the aluminium cannon/barrel ?

is it the diameter of the lens cell ? ( i'm thinking about 4x5 format, not anything bigger ) ...

Curvatures, glass type (and thus refractive index and dispersion), design target, aperture, and all in all rendition.

There are lots of different designs possible with just one single meniscus!

[ederphoto]

Caboom ! It's alive !

How come there's no more treads about these lenses ? In my opinion this is the holy grail of the soft focus lenses .

[CCHarrison]

Not sure what you mean by holy rail.... as far as rarity, in the last few years - according to my informal records, a few more Struss lensses have made their way to ebay than Kalosats...but, almost all the Struss lenses (save for a recent auction) have been in poor to average condition. Said another way - a clean, complete Struss is pretty darn rare... Spencer Port-land examples have been a bit more plentiful than the Struss - but not by much. The Gundlach Equal Diffusion Portrait Lens / Gundlach Hyperion Lens has only shown up twice to my knowledge in the past few years....another fairly rare SF bird...

Dan

[goamules]

When a Struss hits the market, everyone usually knows about it. They were only made for a few years, before Karl went to Hollywood. The others Dan mentions are not as sought, so you don't hear about them as much. But they seem to be more common. I saw probably 6 Spencer Portlands for sale just last year. Not just Ebay, all markets I watch.

Now that we have a few people watching Ebay extremely closely and reporting the "Soft Focus sales" fewer slip by unnoticed. But I've watched a LOT of Soft focus lenses go by on Ebay and other places that are never mentioned. I've seen exactly 3 Struss Pictorials for sale on ebay in 6 years. I must have missed a couple, but you don't see them on Worthpoint or the other historical auction archives either.

[ederphoto]

Not sure what you mean by holy rail.... as far as rarity, in the last few years - according to my informal records, a few more Struss lensses have made their way to ebay than Kalosats...but, almost all the Struss lenses (save for a recent auction) have been in poor to average condition. Said another way - a clean, complete Struss is pretty darn rare... Spencer Port-land examples have been a bit more plentiful than the Struss - but not by much. The Gundlach Equal Diffusion Portrait Lens / Gundlach Hyperion Lens has only shown up twice to my knowledge in the past few years....another fairly rare SF bird...

Dan

By holy grail i mean the ultimate prize .Maybe i'm too obsessed about Pictorialism and Hollywood portraits specially the over the pics made by Karl Struss and Clarence S. Bull .I spent close to 10 years looking for one ,and i will buy any that shows up bellow $2000.00 just to collect them .Never liked the Spencer Port Land or the Hyperion and i would pass if they come to me for $500.00 .The Verito ,Pinkhams and Struss , specially the Struss has a mythological appeal to those who want to duplicate works of the old masters of Pictorialism .There are fewer Struss than Pinkhams and Veritos and i expect their prices to keep on rising as we saw in the last auction .I entered $3000.00 and it was just a scratch and i already had one .To me it is about history as well .Take Ansel Adams Soft Focus pictures with a Spencer Port Land for example and compare to any soft focus picture taken by Struss .I'm a huge fan of Ansel Adams by those where some of his worst work along with some color work as well , don't take my word on this ,those are the words of Ansel Adams himself and that's why he stuck to "sharp" and "black and white " .To me the Struss is the Ultimate soft focus lens .

[ederphoto]

When a Struss hits the market, everyone usually knows about it. They were only made for a few years, before Karl went to Hollywood. The others Dan mentions are not as sought, so you don't hear about them as much. But they seem to be more common. I saw probably 6 Spencer Portlands for sale just last year. Not just Ebay, all markets I watch.

Now that we have a few people watching Ebay extremely closely and reporting the "Soft Focus sales" fewer slip by unnoticed. But I've watched a LOT of Soft focus lenses go by on Ebay and other places that are never mentioned. I've seen exactly 2 Struss Pictorials for sale on ebay in 6 years.

I tried to see records of any Struss for sale here in the forum for example and there's none ! That tells us how rare they are . Every other lens show up here once in a while .

[CCHarrison]

I have recorded 6 Struss lens sales in the past few years from eBay see http://www.antiquecameras.net/softfocuslenssales.html

and 2 more I haven't yet posted. I am sure I have missed a few but as far as I know, there is no other source (in conjunction with the thread on this forum that i started) recording this info rather than just making claims.

Dan

PS. The Struss was sold for at least 6 years see

http://www.antiquecameras.net/softfocuslenses2.html

Fred Keasbey made and marketed the lens. Struss made a few as early as 1909 for himself but Keasbey made these for commercial sale from 1915 until at least 1921

[Jim Galli]

I have recorded 6 Struss lens sales in the past few years from eBay see http://www.antiquecameras.net/softfocuslenssales.html

and 2 more I haven't yet posted. I am sure I have missed a few but as far as I know, there is no other source (in conjunction with the thread on this forum that i started) recording this info rather than just making claims.

Dan

PS. The Struss was sold for at least 6 years see

http://www.antiquecameras.net/softfocuslenses2.html

Fred Keasbey made and marketed the lens. Struss made a few as early as 1909 for himself but Keasbey made these for commercial sale from 1915 until at least 1921

Didn't Karl Struss instruct Keasbey to cease making them, and he continued on anyways from like 1915 until the end?

I dis-agree with Eder on the Hyperion. They have some notable magic, and none of mine are for sale . . . ever.

I didn't get a Kal-O-sat in time and now will probably never have one. Compared the one Eddie had with a Gundlach Meniscus of the same size and did not see any notable magic over and above the Gundy - which definitely has some.

Anybody want to trade an 18" Kalosat for a 16" Nicola Perscheid?

[CCHarrison]

I believe Russ Young mentions Struss eventually felt Keasbey was cheating him but I don't know any more about that. I have found numerous references Keasbey started in 1915 and a recent search shows he sold the Struss as late as 1925 (just google Struss and Keasbey under books).

Dan

[Emil Schildt]

Would LOVE to try a Struss or a Hyperion - or any other soft focus lens I havn't tried yet...

But I don't buy the "ultimate soft focus" claim.

I understand the rarity issue even though some much rarer lenses go for far less money... the collection thing.. the name issue.

I have seen a lot of images done using a Struss but I am not yet convinced.. and what is that mytholotigal thing? (and who wants to copy old masters?)...

I think if I only had one SF lens I could use the rest of my life to make that one my ultimate SF lens...

Jim: I'd swap any day!! but I don't have the money to get a Perscheid either....

[ederphoto]

Hey Jim ,by saying that the hyperions are not for sale do you mean the Struss is ??? LOL

Gandolffi , as far as " Who want to copy old masters anyways ? " .This a joke right ? Otherwise ,why would a bunch of people would be buying wet plate materials , wet plate lenses , creating software do duplicate the old look of wet and and dry plates ,why would some buy soft focus lenses like a Verito ,Pinkham ,Struss , Hyperion when a simple soft focus filter would do , unless they want to duplicate those same results achieved 100 years ago ,why would some people buy oil paint and canvas and try to replicate the impressionists , the modernists , the cubists ,the realists ,the Gothics . Karl Struss himself and other pictorialists were copying the impressionistic style of paint ,so, i don't think it is hard to understand why some would want to duplicate the old masters style of photography or painting ( both are closely related ) it is art and it is business ,unless someone lives on a bubble off course .But that was just a joke right ?Lol .

And as far the claim of ultimate soft focus lens goes , to me it is simple ,Struss was a Master photographer with a great technical knowledge . This can be seen on all of his works specially his pictorial work and that's why to me that is the ultimate soft focus lens ,followed closely by Pinkham and Verito .

[Mark Sawyer]

as far as " Who want to copy old masters anyways ? " .This a joke right ? Otherwise ,why would a bunch of people would be buying wet plate materials , wet plate lenses , creating software do duplicate the old look of wet and and dry plates ,why would some buy soft focus lenses like a Verito ,Pinkham ,Struss , Hyperion when a simple soft focus filter would do , unless they want to duplicate those same results achieved 100 years ago...

...because we like them? There's a lot of wonderful new and original work being done with the old processes and equipment that couldn't be done any other way. If it includes a nod to the past as well, or acknowledges it's roots, I can take it as a plus without seeing it as just copying...


And as far the claim of ultimate soft focus lens goes , to me it is simple ,Struss was a Master photographer with a great technical knowledge . This can be seen on all of his works specially his pictorial work and that's why to me that is the ultimate soft focus lens ,followed closely by Pinkham and Verito .

So what you're saying is you don't like the Cooke Portrait Lenses, Universal Heliar, Nicola Persceid lenses, Kodak Portrait Lens... ;)

[ederphoto]

...because we like them? There's a lot of wonderful new and original work being done with the old processes and equipment that couldn't be done any other way. If it includes a nod to the past as well, or acknowledges it's roots, I can take it as a plus without seeing it as just copying...



So what you're saying is you don't like the Cooke Portrait Lenses, Universal Heliar, Nicola Persceid lenses, Kodak Portrait Lens... ;)

I love the Cooke Portrait lenses , for portraits !!! If i had to list all the lenses here ... you know ! Those are my top 3 lenses for pictorial " landscape and portrait " work only .The field is immense to list the others ! :)

[russyoung]

92985

Dan, I have to admit to an out-loud laugh at the idea Spencer Portlands (or Port-Lands) are rare lenses. They may be in 2013 but when I began shooting (not collecting but using) soft focus lenses circa 1978, they were far and away the most common lens I saw. Perhaps 12-15 have passed through my studio. The 15 inch on the far left once belonged to John Candelario (http://www.tfaoi.com/aa/2aa/2aa67.htm) and it cost the princely sum of $150. The 11.5 inch next to it was a gift from a fellow member of The New Pictorialist Society who had purchased it new. The sunk mount 9 inch on the far right lives on my 4x5 RB Graflex. The next two mount on the 4x5 Speed Graphic. The one with the broad silver ring at its bottom screws into a #5 Alphax for a Canham (Jim Galvin made the adapter for me)

They are lovely lenses in use and I prefer them to either my 9 or 12 inch Struss Pictorials under most conditions. To paraphrase Gandolfi, "if I could own only one soft focus lens," it would be a Kodak 305mm. Second choice would be the 12 inch Hyperion. Third probably the 11.5 Portland.

Your mileage may vary.

Russ Young

[CCHarrison]

Russ,

I didnt really suggest their rating, I merely suggested how many sales I have recorded of Portlands vs. other models over the last few years. I certainly have only kept informal records and would agree Portlands are more common, but how many have reached market (ebay) is what I was reflecting upon.

In a simliar vein, I am still stunned how much Dallmeyer Petzvals get despite how often they are available on the market.

Dan

[CCHarrison]

To follow up - rarity is defined as an infrequency of occurence. My statements:

"as far as rarity, in the last few years - according to my informal records"

"a clean, complete Struss is pretty darn rare... Spencer Port-land examples have been a bit more plentiful than the Struss - but not by much"

is a reflection of the numbers of Struss vs. Port-lands I have recorded for sale on ebay over the past 3 years. I was commenting on the recent market availability of these lenses (although perhaps not as clearly as I should have). It is not a comment on how many were originally produced. Given the multiple versions of the Port-land that exist and the long period over which they were sold, its not difficult to understand more Port-lands were originally produced than Struss lenses.

Dan

[goamules]

So....to the original poster's question, "How rare is a Sturss?" Very rare.

Rather than any other extrapolation method, why not base it on serial numbers? What's the highest numbered Struss ever seen?

I believe most the ones I have seen had serial numbers in the hundreds (but this statement may reveal more numbers) and the highest I can find was Serial number 1024.

[Amedeus]

Yes ... this is also the highest I've recorded so far (1024) ... most of the numbers I have are in the 100's and 400's

I don't have serials on Port-lands over 498 (all black Spencers) but I've seen many of the later series Port-Lands without serial number.




I believe most the ones I have seen had serial numbers in the hundreds (but this statement may reveal more numbers) and the highest I can find was Serial number 1024.

[Jim Galli]

Thinking out loud, so don't turn this into "internet truth" but serial number wise I only wish we knew if the early aluminum bodied Struss (all of them) lenses and the early aluminum bodied Pinkhams (also in the 1,000's and below) were assembled in the same shop and if perhaps the serial number had more to do with the guy doing the machining than either 'maker'. It will be fun as Rudi gets more data, to see if there is ever a duplicate serial number, ie. a Struss and a pre Wollensak body era Pinkham with the same number.

Don't get excited. I'm just making stuff up. Can't help but wonder thought. When you have the Struss' and the Pinkhams together on the same table, the similarities are quite noticeable.

Me and Rudi were noticing that the later Pinkham lenses that have bodies interchangeable with more common Wollensak things have numbers that begin or at least as far as we can tell to date, are all 2,000 and above.

[goamules]

It sounds like you have changed your opinion on the similarity of Struss and Pinkham bodies. That's good to know, you've probably handled more of both than most people, but years ago you said they were not interchangeable, though they looked the same. But on the engraving, that font and style sure looks the same. The iris, and the fact they were aluminum when few other were at that point, says something common was going on.

I bet there are some moldy letters or partnership agreements somewhere that would explain a lot. And I know Russ talked to Karl Struss, maybe he can recall more details?

Isn't it a shame it was so long ago we cannot ask the workers, or secretaries, or salesmen from those companies? And I guess the factory ledgers are long gone. There are some books and articles written a generation or two ago about these lenses, but seldom about their manufacture.

[jp]

Not to get off topic, but I've used one of Russ's little Port-lands, and it's a real nice lens with better contrast and flare-resistance than most of what I've tried, particularly my very dear Reinhold Wollaston Meniscus.

[Amedeus]

It will be fun as Rudi gets more data, to see if there is ever a duplicate serial number, ie. a Struss and a pre Wollensak body era Pinkham with the same number.

That's a "yes" ... The Karl Struss that recently sold for $5,066 was serial #1024 ... I have a Pinkham S.A. Doublet with the same serial number. But yes, they look like they were made in the same shop or at least with the same parts ...

[russyoung]

93147
For the folks who have not seen P&S and Struss lenses side-by-side, here is a photo. The P&S are on the left, the Struss on the right. As you can see, there is no similarity in construction.

As to serial numbers, these Pictorials are #312 and #438; the Semi-Achromatic is #1462.

And all you other folks out there, how about your serial numbers, step up, don't be shy, do your duty to help sort out these mysteries.

Russ

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Russ, that's just wrong!! But I love it. Way to go!!

[Jim Galli]

Russ, that's just wrong!! But I love it. Way to go!!

Enough to make your heart skip a couple of beats...

[CCHarrison]

There are other P&S versions that look more like Struss lenses than Russ has shown

See. http://antiquecameras.net/softfocuslenses.html

Dan

93155

http://antiquecameras.net/images/242_ps99.jpg

[goamules]

Yep, those are the P&S models I've seen, they look exactly like a Struss.

[Mark Sawyer]

I wonder whether the engravings have enough of an individual signature in each to determine whether they came from the same shop?

CSI Rochester...

[Amedeus]

This is also how my P&S Doublet #1024 looks like, close to what a Struss looks like ...

Looks to me that there are possibly a few different alu versions out for P&S ...

Quite obvious that the threads don't match between the Pinkhams and the Strusses ...


There are other P&S versions that look more like Struss lenses than Russ has shown

See. http://antiquecameras.net/softfocuslenses.html

Dan

93155

http://antiquecameras.net/images/242_ps99.jpg

[Steven Tribe]

I wonder whether the engravings have enough of an individual signature in each to determine whether they came from the same shop?

Engraving machines had been in use for about 20 years, so I would expected even small batch makers to have delivered their barrels to an establishment with one.

[Geoffrey_5995]

I believe and was told at some point that the Pinkham & Smith lenses were engraved by hand by an engraver that was in the same building where the Pinkhams were manufactured. All the early Pinkhams I have look hand engraved and by looking closely the chisel like engraving marks can be seen. The Struss lenses look like an engraving machine was used. I don't have one Struss that looks like it was hand engraved. From my not so good memory, I believe that Struss lenses were distributed from East 30th Street in NYC before Keasby distributed them from Morristown. I know the family that now lives in Keasby's house in Morristown. Distribution is one thing but where were Struss's made? I never hear much about where or who manufactured them. I have a Theory that the Kohler (sp?) lens co. on West 14th street manufactured Struss lenses or at least the prototypes. I have Kohler lens, I need to dig out, that has an aluminum barrel with a single meniscus element in the rear and a brass mount front aperture. There is no aperture scale. The lens is engraved Kohler Portrait lens. It has approx. 9" focal length. I'll try dig it out and provide a pic. I also have a few Struss catalogs somewhere. Need to revisit those to see what info I can glean that would be relevant to this thread.

[Geoffrey_5995]

Attached are a couple of pics of my Koehler Serie: A Portrait Lens. It has the aluminum body like a Struss Pictorial lens and a single glass, not a cemented pair achromat (semi-achromat) in the rear. The brass aperture mount is interesting in that it is brass and not aluminum and there are no aperture fstop markings on it. The engraving looks very similar to that found on Struss lenses. I've found that Koehler Optical was located at 7 East 14th Street, just east of 5th ave. I stated above Fred Keasby distributed Struss lenses where in many ads it states he manufactured them but I have read that he distributed them but don't remember where I read this. Hathaway-Dunn distributed them but I have seen ads that show Karl Struss selling them from 5 West 31st street. I did see an ad for Koehler's Camera Exchange, basically a place to buy or trade used cameras, at the same address of 7 East 14th street.9348893489



I believe and was told at some point that the Pinkham & Smith lenses were engraved by hand by an engraver that was in the same building where the Pinkhams were manufactured. All the early Pinkhams I have look hand engraved and by looking closely the chisel like engraving marks can be seen. The Struss lenses look like an engraving machine was used. I don't have one Struss that looks like it was hand engraved. From my not so good memory, I believe that Struss lenses were distributed from East 30th Street in NYC before Keasby distributed them from Morristown. I know the family that now lives in Keasby's house in Morristown. Distribution is one thing but where were Struss's made? I never hear much about where or who manufactured them. I have a Theory that the Kohler (sp?) lens co. on West 14th street manufactured Struss lenses or at least the prototypes. I have Kohler lens, I need to dig out, that has an aluminum barrel with a single meniscus element in the rear and a brass mount front aperture. There is no aperture scale. The lens is engraved Kohler Portrait lens. It has approx. 9" focal length. I'll try dig it out and provide a pic. I also have a few Struss catalogs somewhere. Need to revisit those to see what info I can glean that would be relevant to this thread.

[Geoffrey_5995]

Don't know why they are horizontal. Here they are again:
9349093491

[Jim Galli]

Thanks Geoff. Great stuff. Sure looks like there are some similarities!

[Geoffrey_5995]

Jim, Glad I could contribute to this thread. It is also possible that this lens is a re-branded Struss that Koehler engraved with their name for their camera exchange. Still so much we don't know about these intriguing lenses.


Thanks Geoff. Great stuff. Sure looks like there are some similarities!

[Amedeus]

9361893619

Two images ... one from a P&S SA Doublet #1024 (mine) and a Struss Pictorial #1024 (not mine)

As for engraving, quite different and between the two construction and finish is also quite different. OTOH, the #1024 Struss looks more like Russ's P&S's from a distance while my #1024 Doublet has similarities with Russ's Struss's when looking at the images in Russ's earlier post on the subject.

Easy to see that one could get confused because of the multiple different design appearances out there. It's not clear the parts for these barrels to come from the same place at all times but it is quite possible that for a few lots there were common parts. Look at the construction around the iris between Russ's image and the one I have here for the P&S #1024, the latter also quite similar to what Dan shows on his website.

As for engraving, this is most likely the last step in the process and I suspect done just prior to mounting the lenses. So no big surprise the engraving between the two manufacturer's to be different.

My list of serial numbers is growing but not as fast as I would like it to see. I'll address this and some updated observations in another post shortly. At this point I'm collecting P&S, Struss, Spencer and Kalosat. All of these manufacturers had "limited" productions going on.

[sun of sand]

old as dirt thread

[goamules]

....must...restrain... biting....response....

[Jim Galli]

....must...restrain... biting....response....

You mean saying something like; dumb as rocks poster, or village idiot??

[goamules]

Yeah, I gotta make sure I don't say that. Cause I did at first. But decided to be good and edit it.

[Mark Sawyer]

old as dirt thread

dumb as dirt post

[russyoung]

93924

Although I am reasonably certain of the source of glass for the Struss Pictorial, the barrels are indeed a puzzle.

Let me muddy the waters a little more with this lens. It has no imprint whatsoever except for the iris and isn't quite a Struss. Based on a P&S lens at the Eastman House, it's possibly a prototype by Henry Smith. But we will probably never know for certain.

Russ

[Jim Galli]

Very cool lens. The aperture ring us certainly a dead ringer for the Struss' Interesting. Is it a cemented doublet then?

[goamules]

Finally, after a long dry spell in the desert, the "Lenses" section of this forum has some interesting classic discussions! Thanks for getting us excited again Russ!

[Amedeus]

Very cool lens. The aperture ring us certainly a dead ringer for the Struss' Interesting. Is it a cemented doublet then?

Glass or quartz ? The thread on the barrel doesn't look like the thread on the typical P&S aluminum barrel ... I noticed that the Struss lenses typically have a finer (more TPI) thread than P&S barrels ,,,

Thanks for sharing ...

[Mark Sawyer]

Apparently, the Struss lenses aren't rare at all. I googled "Struss Pictorial Lens", and the ad on the side of my screen said:

"Struss Pictorial Lens on eBay
Huge selection of Struss Pictorial Lens.
Free Shipping available."

Maybe I'll get a few... :rolleyes:

[ederphoto]

Apparently, the Struss lenses aren't rare at all. I googled "Struss Pictorial Lens", and the ad on the side of my screen said:

"Struss Pictorial Lens on eBay
Huge selection of Struss Pictorial Lens.
Free Shipping available."

Maybe I'll get a few... :rolleyes:

I'll take a dozen please !
By the way , has any living soul here in the forum ever seen a 21" Struss ???

[Duyfam]

I've never seen a 21" Struss :rolleyes:. I saw in last month Struss 9" for graflex version the fist time, Lens mount on old Folmer Graflex 3a. (lens in quartz version?)


178106 178107

[ederphoto]

I've never seen a 21" Struss :rolleyes:. I saw in last month Struss 9" for graflex version the fist time, Lens mount on old Folmer Graflex 3a. (lens in quartz version?)


178106 178107

The 9s and 12s are more common . Still almost impossible to come by . I have seen a 15" and one 18 " but the the 21" .... This is like a myth !