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shapirophoto
28-Oct-2008, 20:32
How do you guys deal with boxes of sheet-film and airport security? I'm used to having rolls hand inspected, are they going to want to OPEN my boxes of film??

If you guys haven't gathered so far from my recent posts, I'm heading on my first lg format trip. Excited, but needing info.

Pat Kearns
28-Oct-2008, 20:53
Don't let the film go in check luggage unless you want it fried. I usally let it go through x-ray and haven't had any problems. On my last trip I sent it ahead via FedEx and USPS parcel post return trip. Shipping it takes the worry out of the equation.

IanMazursky
28-Oct-2008, 21:09
In the US they are more likely to hand inspect film if you ask. I always do.
They will wipe the outside of every box multiple times. Almost every TSA agent has been very friendly and easy to deal with. THe few problems i have had i just asked for a supervisor.
I always get to the airport with lots of time to spare. I pick the line with the fewest people and have everything ready to go before i get to the X ray machine.

My clients who regularly travel with 10+ boxes of 50 sheets of 4x5 and 200-400 lbs of equipment call ahead for special treatment. It might cost you a bit but they say its worth it.

Steve Gledhill
29-Oct-2008, 03:03
Also see the thread titled "Travelling with Sheets vs ReadyLoads/Quickloads" from one year ago.

Bruce Watson
29-Oct-2008, 05:17
How do you guys deal with boxes of sheet-film and airport security? I'm used to having rolls hand inspected, are they going to want to OPEN my boxes of film??

If you guys haven't gathered so far from my recent posts, I'm heading on my first lg format trip. Excited, but needing info.

In my experience sheet film and TSA are a bad mix. The TSA people know nothing about sheet film and don't have the time or inclination for education when they are working.

Ship the film outside the TSA system -- use a shipper you can trust such as FedEx, UPS, or someone else, and ship the film to a friend where you are going, to your hotel, to a friendly destination gallery, even a local store for your shippper (both FedEx and UPS will let you ship to a store at your destination and hold for pickup).

I'm just sayin' that if you keep your film out of TSA's hands then TSA can't ruin your film.

Frank Petronio
29-Oct-2008, 05:49
What/where do you "call ahead" for special treatment?

And what makes you think any independent shipper doesn't x-ray their packages with as much juice as checked baggage? The "Do Not X-Ray" warning you wrote on the package? lol... Nowhere in the customer agreements does it say that they won't or that they have to tell you.

ki6mf
29-Oct-2008, 05:50
Request a hand inspection of film, do not load it in film containers, keep it in the box and take a changing bag. Be very polite TSA does have to comply with your request. Make it as easy as possible for TSA. If at all possible buy film at your location and load on site. You can also ship exposed film and via Fed Ex and request no X Ray.

Louie Powell
29-Oct-2008, 05:57
My practice has been to hand carry the film and let it go through the carry-on x-ray. I've been unable to detect any evidence of fogging.

In general, my experience with TSA has been positive. And when I travel, I make sure that I am prepared with a changing bag for them to use if they insist on doing a hand inspection of my film. But I never ask for a hand inspection on the basis that asking for anything that is outside the norm is either going to draw unnecessary (and unwanted) attention to myself or set the stage for someone to do something incredibly stupid out of sheer ignorance.

Mark_S
29-Oct-2008, 06:14
I have never had an issue inside the US with TSA doing hand inspections of film which is in unopened boxes.

I put the film boxes in a ziplock bag that I can easily remove - TSA wipes it down and checks it in their nitrate sniffer machine and the additional delay is minimal.

Overseas is another issue.....

Bruce Watson
29-Oct-2008, 06:36
...what makes you think any independent shipper doesn't x-ray their packages with as much juice as checked baggage? The "Do Not X-Ray" warning you wrote on the package? lol... Nowhere in the customer agreements does it say that they won't or that they have to tell you.

Experience Frank, and common sense. Nearly every sheet of film sold anywhere in the world is shipped by common carrier, the vast majority by air freight. None of it gets ruined by x-rays. If it did, you'd see hundred of threads started about that very topic right here on this website.

I buy all my film from Badger Graphic Supplies, they ship it with companies they trust, and it always arrives undamaged. I use those same shippers and never have any trouble. And you might plaster a box with "Do Not X-Ray" labels but I sure as hell don't! LOL, you crack me up!

Rick Floyd
29-Oct-2008, 06:58
I bought my last batch of Velvia (50 & 100) at Badger Graphics and they (Jim) sent the entire order to my hotel in Colorado two days before I caught a flight from Dallas. B&H would not ship to my destination, only to the address tied to my credit card. After the shoot I shipped the exposed 4X5s home. I just did not want to take a chance of getting the new officer at the gate who out of a show of "I've got the badge" would open my boxes of 4x5 film. The hotel was very accommodating and kept it refrigerated until I checked-in. This was a very important shoot for me and I took as few chances as possible.

RF

Ted Stoddard
29-Oct-2008, 07:04
I always ship via UPS when I go out of town they do not xray (only ground) within the US and I ship exposed film the same way home and have not had any problems... Regards to the TSA I have had problems in my local airport and also in my home town airport... Only 1 person knew what the film was and convince them not to open the film boxes... he said they will ruin the film, thank god someone knew what it was... both airports are SJC and PBIA... just give extra time or better yet ship to your destination...

Frank Petronio
29-Oct-2008, 07:06
Oh I don't bother labeling film if I ship it, I gave up. And I get film by UPS or mail all the time. But it would be just my luck to have the job of my life ruined by some a-hole who decides to mail some white powder to those precious politicians and then then everything would be getting zapped in a heartbeat.

I wouldn't be surprised if our packages are x-rayed more often than we think and we just don't notice any fogging because they aren't cranked up.

I still think keeping your film, especially the exposed film, in your possession is the safest and most professional way to operate.

climbabout
29-Oct-2008, 07:24
I flew twice in the past year here in the US and just put my 8x10 sheet file in holders on the carry on belt and had absolutely no problems. Some passed thru 4 times - it was FP4+. I won't go through the hassle of hand inspections anymore.
Tim

Brian Ellis
29-Oct-2008, 08:01
What/where do you "call ahead" for special treatment?

And what makes you think any independent shipper doesn't x-ray their packages with as much juice as checked baggage? The "Do Not X-Ray" warning you wrote on the package? lol... Nowhere in the customer agreements does it say that they won't or that they have to tell you.

I've always assumed independent shippers don't typically xray because I don't know what purpose it would serve. Why would a terrorist or other nut case want to blow up a plane carrying two people and a bunch of packages? But maybe I'm missing something, I don't know anything about that business.

Getting back to the question, I just let film go through the passenger xray machines and have never had a problem. I used to ask for hand-checking but the willingness to do that varied depending on the particular airport personnel. I had one person who wanted to open up each Readyload envelope. Another time I was with a friend in San Francisco and we both asked for a hand check. The person I dealt with had no problem just passing the unopened boxes of film. The person my friend dealt with wanted to take him into a dark room and open the boxes. So I just stopped asking and haven't had any problems with film going through the passenger xray. Luggage xray is a whole different deal, nobody should pack their film in luggage.

Dave Jeffery
29-Oct-2008, 13:53
"Getting back to the question, I just let film go through the passenger xray machines and have never had a problem"

That's Great!

Has anyone reported a problem with the passenger x-ray machines recently?

I won't search the archives so this is as up to date as possible. I remember reading previoulsy that there were concerns as many newer machines were put into service but don't remember anyone claiming that they had film ruined.

mervynyan
29-Oct-2008, 14:28
I pass through airport many times, always ask for hand inspection and leave a lot of time to spare to deal with excess delay. If I am tight on time, I will just let it passed through x-ray.

Don't load the film, TSA will wipe the surface for the film box (sometimes plastic wrap) to detect the explosive traces. But if they do try to open the wrap, explain and insist to have their supervisor to find someone knowledgeable about films (it seems there is always someone nearby knows about films).

But I shoot iso25-100 only, so I don't see any problems for x-ray scan.

DJGainer
29-Oct-2008, 14:56
I think people are really overthinking this, and I would love to hear of a specific first-hand report of a TSA officer insisting on inspecting the actual film and ruining it. Remember, they are looking for suspicious and threatening items and a box of film just does not seem threatening. I shoot velvia and fp4+ and always let it pass through the scanner. The scanners will not harm film below 800 and that should give them a good look inside the box, dispelling any suspicion.

As for shipping to destination/home, this just seems to be too much of a hassle for such a self-manifested fear.

resummerfield
29-Oct-2008, 15:47
........I shoot velvia and fp4+ and always let it pass through the scanner. The scanners will not harm film below 800 and that should give them a good look inside the box, dispelling any suspicion.......
That's what I do, too. I shoot FP-4 and I've never had a problem, either fogging or with the security folks.

Bruce Watson
29-Oct-2008, 16:19
I think people are really overthinking this, and I would love to hear of a specific first-hand report of a TSA officer insisting on inspecting the actual film and ruining it.

Per your request: TSA cost me a box of 4x5 Tri-X. Airport is RDU. This happened in late 2004 IIRC.

My Tri-X film box was factory sealed. I asked TSA for a hand inspection, explained that it was unexposed photographic film and that light would ruin it. I showed the TSA woman a processed sheet so she could see what sheet film was and see an image on it to make it more "real" to her. I even offered her the use of my Harrison Pup Tent if she really wanted to open the film (which she seemed to really want to do -- she asked me if there were "film canisters" inside my sheet film box and I assured her that my film wasn't 135 roll film but was instead individual sheets of 4x5 film -- that's when I gave her the example sheet to look at).

She insisted in taking my box out of my sight. I wasn't like I could stop her. When it came back one (not both) seals had been broken. Needless to say I didn't risk using this box of film on my trip. When I got home I took this box into my darkroom. When I had loaded nine sheets of exposed film in my Jobo 3010 tank, I opened this suspect box like they did (one seal still in tact) and found both foil bags were still sealed. I opened the top bag and pulled a sheet of unexposed film as my tenth sheet in the 3010 for my development run. All the other sheets came out just fine, the "unexposed" sheet had one edge that was fogged but was otherwise clear.

Now it might not have been TSA's fault. It's true that it could have shipped from the factory like that. Or I could have managed to load ten sheets into a 3010 tank while fogging the edge of exactly one sheet somehow. Or maybe it got X-rayed while standing on edge (?) by a delivery company between me and the Kodak manufacturing plant. Or something else...

I can't prove that the fogging originated with TSA. I'm just sayin' that there's strong circumstantial evidence that TSA played a (really big) part in crushing that box of Tri-X.

TSA's security theater isn't worth the risk to me. When I have to travel by air I always take my camera equipment in my carry-on and ship my film by FedEX or UPS. Better safe than sorry.

mervynyan
29-Oct-2008, 16:30
I think people are really overthinking this, and I would love to hear of a specific first-hand report of a TSA officer insisting on inspecting the actual film and ruining it. Remember, they are looking for suspicious and threatening items and a box of film just does not seem threatening. I shoot velvia and fp4+ and always let it pass through the scanner. The scanners will not harm film below 800 and that should give them a good look inside the box, dispelling any suspicion.

As for shipping to destination/home, this just seems to be too much of a hassle for such a self-manifested fear.

Not really. TSA got the bad rep when they were under staff and under equip few years back, regardless of the politics. Now it took only half of time to pass through the queue in the busiest airports. Initially, I mixed 35mm 400-1600 iso films in one bag but they went through every single roll, and there was no clear guideline about the hand inspection about the ISO either.

Now they just wipe the items and put it in the bomb detector, no arguments, no need to read through the labels.

DJGainer
29-Oct-2008, 16:31
Per your request: TSA cost me a box of 4x5 Tri-X. Airport is RDU. This happened in late 2004 IIRC.

My Tri-X film box was factory sealed. I asked TSA for a hand inspection, explained that it was unexposed photographic film and that light would ruin it. I showed the TSA woman a processed sheet so she could see what sheet film was and see an image on it to make it more "real" to her. I even offered her the use of my Harrison Pup Tent if she really wanted to open the film (which she seemed to really want to do -- she asked me if there were "film canisters" inside my sheet film box and I assured her that my film wasn't 135 roll film but was instead individual sheets of 4x5 film -- that's when I gave her the example sheet to look at).

She insisted in taking my box out of my sight. I wasn't like I could stop her. When it came back one (not both) seals had been broken. Needless to say I didn't risk using this box of film on my trip. When I got home I took this box into my darkroom. When I had loaded nine sheets of exposed film in my Jobo 3010 tank, I opened this suspect box like they did (one seal still in tact) and found both foil bags were still sealed. I opened the top bag and pulled a sheet of unexposed film as my tenth sheet in the 3010 for my development run. All the other sheets came out just fine, the "unexposed" sheet had one edge that was fogged but was otherwise clear.

Now it might not have been TSA's fault. It's true that it could have shipped from the factory like that. Or I could have managed to load ten sheets into a 3010 tank while fogging the edge of exactly one sheet somehow. Or maybe it got X-rayed while standing on edge (?) by a delivery company between me and the Kodak manufacturing plant. Or something else...

I can't prove that the fogging originated with TSA. I'm just sayin' that there's strong circumstantial evidence that TSA played a (really big) part in crushing that box of Tri-X.

TSA's security theater isn't worth the risk to me. When I have to travel by air I always take my camera equipment in my carry-on and ship my film by FedEX or UPS. Better safe than sorry.

But you requested a hand inspection and then said she could not inspect it. If ran through the machine this wouldn't have been an issue.

So I guess my follow up question is, how many people have put it through the scanner and subsequently been pulled aside by TSA for hand inspection?

DJGainer
29-Oct-2008, 16:41
Not really. TSA got the bad rep when they were under staff and under equip few years back, regardless of the politics. Now it took only half of time to pass through the queue in the busiest airports. Initially, I mixed 35mm 400-1600 iso films in one bag but they went through every single roll, and there was no clear guideline about the hand inspection about the ISO either.

Now they just wipe the items and put it in the bomb detector, no arguments, no need to read through the labels.

If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that issues that were present in the past but seemingly have been corrected should be cause to continue to distrust TSA?

jnantz
29-Oct-2008, 19:22
i have travelled a few times from boston logan to france.
some via heathrow to basel, some via zurich.
i travelled with boxes of sheet film, and a graflex slr/leicam, and
a currier bag filled with 300 sheets of 4x5 film and hundreds of rolls of 120+35mm film.
i asked at every airport to hand inspect my film, they never did.
they never opened my film, just looked at it 6+ times / leg of trip
in the xray machine. they did the sniffy-thing often, and several times
they asked me to demonstrate the big wooden thing with all the metal
on it ( that means graflex slr ).
i have never had trouble with film, and some of it has been on all 3 trips...
(15-18 xrays ) some was 800, 400, 200, 100, 25asa color and b/w..
maybe i just was lucky ... in any case nothing was damaged that i could notice ...

adrian tyler
29-Oct-2008, 23:27
Oh I don't bother labeling film if I ship it, I gave up. And I get film by UPS or mail all the time. But it would be just my luck to have the job of my life ruined by some a-hole who decides to mail some white powder to those precious politicians and then then everything would be getting zapped in a heartbeat.

I wouldn't be surprised if our packages are x-rayed more often than we think and we just don't notice any fogging because they aren't cranked up.

I still think keeping your film, especially the exposed film, in your possession is the safest and most professional way to operate.


i don't send many packages UPS/FED-EX say ona a month, however two of them have come back with "X_RAY INSPECTED" stickers on them, the film was NOT fogged however.

that is a prettyhigh x-ray percentage over what i send, and i CERTAILY label everything "FILMSAFE X-RAY ONLY PLEASE".

Ross Chambers
30-Oct-2008, 00:12
FWIW Tri X, Arista Ultra and APHS from Freestyle all arrived in Australia via USPS and Australia Post with no harm. Maybe it was because they were unaccompanied.

Regards - Ross

ki6mf
30-Oct-2008, 04:03
I did check a box of HP 5 in Luggage- not carry on. I shot several test exposures when home. I shot un X Rayed film too and compared the two negatives. I did not use a densitometer. I got about 1 to 1.5 stops of exposure added to the image. This was clearly visible on the edge of the film.

nelson_chan
30-Oct-2008, 05:30
I think people are really overthinking this, and I would love to hear of a specific first-hand report of a TSA officer insisting on inspecting the actual film and ruining it. Remember, they are looking for suspicious and threatening items and a box of film just does not seem threatening. I shoot velvia and fp4+ and always let it pass through the scanner. The scanners will not harm film below 800 and that should give them a good look inside the box, dispelling any suspicion.

As for shipping to destination/home, this just seems to be too much of a hassle for such a self-manifested fear.

I let my film run through the carry-on x-rays no problem now. I am actually in Asia at the moment with around 100 sheets of 8x10 and 100 sheets of 4x5 all happen to be Kodak 400NC. Surprisingly though, in one of the US's most busiest airports, Chicago O'Hare, a TSA security guard tried to pry open my 4x5 boxes clearly labeled KODAK FILM. Just put the film through the x-ray and don't think about it. I've had film go through an x-ray a dozen times before processing and have had no trouble.

Good luck.

Bruce Watson
30-Oct-2008, 06:16
But you requested a hand inspection and then said she could not inspect it.

Nope. She said she would hand inspect it. This one she apparently opened -- by hand. ;) The other three apparently were "wanded" with a nitrogen detector. So all my film was, in fact, hand inspected. One box was destroyed in the process. Lesson learned.

Martin L.
30-Oct-2008, 08:30
I probably don't carry as much film as many of you but I have found that wearing military style fatigues with their 6 pockets can hold 50 sheet 4x5 boxes very comfortably. I have gone thought the metal detectors many times with no problems. The 2 times I asked I was denied hand inspections in spite of informing the TSA agent the regulation allowing it and asking for a supervisor. Obviously this won't work for 5x7 or 8x10 unless you have REALLY big pockets....

Frank Petronio
30-Oct-2008, 08:58
No offense to you personally but I can't help but find it discomforting that they would let a guy with loaded-down Army pants pass through without a hitch -- while they strip-search Granny's fanny.

Ain't the TSA great?

z_photo
30-Oct-2008, 11:56
"Why would a terrorist or other nut case want ... instead of just a few New Yorkers who feel special because they were targeted.

:eek:

Wallace_Billingham
30-Oct-2008, 12:01
FWIW I used to work at the Airport in Baltimore Maryland doing baggage screening. That was in 1989 and 1990 before there was a TSA. I ran a roll of 400 KodaK Color film through the X-Ray Machine hundreds of times just to see what it would do. In the end it had no effect the film shot and developed just fine.

Remember that X-Rays are beyond UV on the spectrum (0.1-10 NM) and most films just do not have any sensitivity to it at all. Doctors and Dentists have to use special X-Ray film to take X-Rays.

Modern X-Ray machines used in carry on baggage screenings are much more sensitive to X-Rays than the machines I used 15+ years ago and as such use even less radiation than the old machines.

Also remember that for every hour you are in the air you are exposing your film (and yourself) to the same level of X-Rays used when you get a chest X-Ray.

Checked baggage on the other hand gets a very high level of radiation very much like a CAT Scan. Keep your film out of your checked baggage.

In the end just keep you film in your carry on bags and pass it through, nothing bad will happen and you will have an easier time with everything

GPS
30-Oct-2008, 12:34
...

Also remember that for every hour you are in the air you are exposing your film (and yourself) to the same level of X-Rays used when you get a chest X-Ray.
...


Nonsense. A typical dose rate for 1hr flight is 0.5 mrem. A chest x-ray examination is 6mrem.

eric mac
30-Oct-2008, 12:53
I have gone through carry on xray O'Hare (Chicago) and McCarren (Las Vegas) round trip twice with an unexposed holder. I developed the film and found no additional fogging compared to film that I left at home.

I have not let film go thru check in baggage as this will fry the film. I actually got a warning about the spot meter because of its shape.

Eric

Eric