m-componon f4/80mm in barrel - can I attach the barrel into a shutter?

[Patrik Roseen]

I have acquired an m-componon f4/80mm in barrel and in absolute mint condition! It came with an M39 ring.

Looking at the Schneider documentation on their web site they say that the elements screw directly into a Copal-0 shutter. But I thought the whole lens including barrel was supposed to go into a shutter so that I could use the aperture in the barrel similar to a Tominon lens.

Since I do not want to fiddle around with all my lenses trying to work something out I thought I would kindly ask for some help here. Shutters I have alot of, the question is which one I should try if I want the elements to stay in the barrel they came in.

Any suggestions?

[Dan Fromm]

Patrik, Schneider isn't Tomioka or Rodenstock, both of whom made a few lenses that screw directly into the front of a #1 for use on a variety of Polaroid cameras. But you knew this when you bought the m-componon. Schneider, in their infinite wisdom, made enlarging lenses whose cells will go into standard shutters and didn't, as far as I know, support front-mounting. But and however, since Schneider is a merchant lens maker and will do nearly anything the customer requires they may well have made lenses that will front-mount for a special (customer-specific) application.

If you want to keep the m-componon's cells in the original barrel (why?), you can always buy an adapter that's M39x26tpi in front and M40x0.75 behind. I have one that SKGrimes made for me, use it behind a number of lenses in LTM. I don't believe these are a stock item anywhere, but a competent turner should be able to make one for you. Make sure that the thing's interior is threaded as for a filter or flocked to help control glancing reflections off its sides.

Cheers,

Dan

[Patrik Roseen]

Thank you Dan,
I looked at the M-componon pdf on the schneider .de website (archiv)and there it looks as if they put it in front of a copal-1 shutter using a tube. The 80mm should be the one in the middle.
http://www.schneideroptics.de/archiv/pdf/m_componon.pdf


In my case I do not have the tube but only something that looks like a retaining ring with threads also on the outside.
I guess this will not make it into a shutter since the rear element sticks out from the back of the barrel.

Guess I either need to find one of those tubes or go through the hassle of making my own aperture scale for a copal-0 shutter.

[Dan Fromm]

Patrik,

Thanks for the link. The tube in the picture could be threaded female M29.5x0.5 at the front and male M40x0.75 at the rear.

The real question isn't whether the rear of the lens will interfere with the shutter, it is whether it will fit inside the adapter. My 210/7.7 Beryl S is in LTM, won't fit the SKG adapter because its rear section is larger than the adapter's internal diameter. I use a short LTM extension tube to mount it on the adapter on the shutter.

This approach may work for your m-componon.

But why do you think it is in LTM? The link says that all three are in M29.5x0.5 and will attach directly to a #0 shutter. It offers no alternative mounts. Your lens may be attached to a "#0" to LTM adapter.

Cheers,

Dan

[Patrik Roseen]

My lens looks like an ordinary enlarger lens with a front element and a rear element sitting in a barrel in the middle. The barrel has threads on the backside as for a retaining ring...and that's it.
The rear element is smaller than the threads on the barrel.

The lens has a serial number of 14 nnn nnn.

It looks like this one:
m-componon (http://cgi.ebay.com/Schneider-80mm-f4-M-Componon-Micro-MINT-IN-BOX_W0QQitemZ120322103921QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item120322103921&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318)

[Dan Fromm]

Patrik,

Thanks for the additional link. If yours is mounted like a normal ordinary enlarging lens with LTM mounting threads, I don't see why my suggestion for hanging it on a #1 won't work. It has for my lenses in LTM.

If, like some Schneider enlarging lenses, it has M32.5x0.5 mounting threads (#0 shutter mounting threads), I also don't see why an adapter to #1 won't work. FWIW, I have a couple of Schneider enlarging lenses that I've tried as macro lenses. I made my own adapter to #1 for 'em, since I'm standardized on #1s as much as possible for front-mounting. Glued a retaining ring that fits the lenses in a 7 mm LTM extension tube. Works well, and the extension tube isn't permanently ruined.

If you decide to use a #1, let me recommend the Copal #1 Press for the Polaroid MP-4 system. That shutter, unlike Copal #1 Press shutters for other Polaroid cameras, has an open shutter lever. And since it has no diaphragm and is not all that useful, used ones are usually inexpensive. But of course you already have plenty of shutters.

Cheers,

Dan

[Peter K]

My lens looks like an ordinary enlarger lens with a front element and a rear element sitting in a barrel in the middle. The barrel has threads on the backside as for a retaining ring...and that's it.
The rear element is smaller than the threads on the barrel.
This kind of mounting was used for the Linhof macro-tube equipped with a shutter size #0. So the thread should be M 29,5 x 0,5 mm. The lens is mounted with a dove-tail and three little screws in the mounting ring. If you loose the screws you can turn the lens to align the lens in the shutter for a better view of the f-scale.

Peter K

[Michael Jones]

This kind of mounting was used for the Linhof macro-tube equipped with a shutter size #0. So the thread should be M 29,5 x 0,5 mm. The lens is mounted with a dove-tail and three little screws in the mounting ring. If you loose the screws you can turn the lens to align the lens in the shutter for a better view of the f-scale.

Peter K

Peter is correct and these Linhof mounts pop up on eBay with some frequency. But, I did not say inexpensively.

If you wanted, S K Grimes could mount it in a copal shutter, but you're talking $300 plus parts.

Good luck.

Mike

[Peter K]

With M-Componon's mounted in this way one needs no other parts as a shutter size #0. If you have a lens mounted in such a shutter, remove the lens parts and screw in the M-Componon in the shutter's front thread. The shutter diaphragm should be wide open.

Peter K

[Patrik Roseen]

Wow, thanks for all the help.

I will try to make my own tube and attach it to a Copal-1 Press MP-4 shutter as Dan propose. I have several to choose from and I guess the risk for vignetting is smaller than if I attach it to a copal-0 (especially if I do not get the package close enough to the shutter).

Peter, I do not want to unscrew the m-componon elements since I assume I might not get the right distance between them when screwing them into a copal-0 shutter.
The reason I bought the m-componon in the first place is for the famous characteristics of this macro lens, i.e. I do not want to tamper with it too much.

Michael, I will look out for a Schneider macro-tubus from now on.

Thank you everyone!

[Peter K]

Patrick, as one can see on the first page http://www.schneideroptics.de/archiv/pdf/m_componon.pdf
the M-Componon in the background is mounted in a shutter size #0. So the shutter is used as a back-shutter. To use the same shutter with another M-Componon, only unscrew the whole lens and screw the other lens in. It's the same as with switching between different enlarging lenses.

With the three small screws loosened, not removed, you can turn the lens in the mounting ring to avoid the f-scale is at the wrong side so you can read the f-scale
effortless. If the whole lens is turned in such a position, fix the screws.

Peter K

[Patrik Roseen]

Peter, thanks for trying to help me.

I have understood that the shutter should go behind the lens and that it should be a copal-0. But,the problem is that I am missing a piece (the tube) that will add some distance between the barrel and the shutter so that the rear lens element will not hit the shutter blades. The barrel with lens is shown if you follow the link in a previous post.

Did I overlook something?

[Peter K]

Patrik you are right, you are missing this special tube. So ask the previous owner, possible he has used the lens with a different mounting and he don't remember this strange piece of metal in his drawer. Or ask at Schneider.

Good luck

Peter K

[archivue]

you need that ring :
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/46486-REG/Schneider_92_056002_Leica_40mm_to_Copal.html

[Patrik Roseen]

Thank you archivue, I will investigate if this is what I need...I need to measure the threads on the back of the barrel a bit more precise to be certain.