BTZS film tubes

[tim atherton]

Anyone use the BTZS film tube system for processing 4x5? How do you find it?

Also, what about the daylight tank that Calumet sells (can't remember the name), that takes six negs at a time? Does this have any major problems?

Thanks

Tim A

[Ellis Vener]

The HP Combo tank you refer to is very messy to use, it leaks and Ihad difficult y with evenness,leakage and drain & fill time times. I have had two of them at d ifferent times. The way HP recommends you use them is to set up a line of them a nd move the film basket from one to the next with a water clear between stop and fixer (for B&W) and cap each tank for daylight flip and flop agitation. Four of these tanks are hardly cheap.

I cannot offer you advice on the BTZS tubes except to say that the people who us e them, like them.

BTZS/ Darkroom Innovations makes/markets the best darkcloth for large format cam eras period; it is a joy to use compared to the standard "horse blanket" design.

[Robert Ruderman]

If "the daylight tank that Calumet sells" is indeed the HP Combi-T tank, I also recommend avoiding it. Maybe it was the way I agitated the tank, but I found that the gizmo used to support the bottom of the negatives in the tank (the part with all the small little teeth) would gouge my negatives during processing. The result was bits of emulsion mission from my negatives. Needless to say the tank went back to the store.

If you are set on a daylight processing tank for 4x5, look at the Jobo 2500 (2000?) series tank. Uses around 55oz. of chemistry (if you don't have a roller/processor (the Combi-T uses 36oz). It's much easier to work with and a light year better with regards to filling and draining chemistry. The results are more even because of this.

[Michael Kadillak]

I started out tray processing sheet film and migrated to the BTZS tubes. They work fine. Some folks will tell you about the negatives of any system as everyone has their "favorite" technique. The knocks on the BTZS system have been: 1) The time it takes to unscrew the caps of a group of tubes being processed and dump the chemistry and 2) The requirement for additional fixing to remove the dark coloration of remaining antihalation backing of the film that did not receive chemistry during processing.

Start with one tube and work you way up to gain confidence. Shortly you will be slinging multiple tubes with the best of them. So what if you have to fix a little longer to clear the film ? I actually think that the rotational method gives great results with no potential scratching that can occur in trays. In my opinion, tha value of the BTZS system is the simplicity. A tube with a cap screwed to it. I cannot speak to the merits or the multiple sheets tanks. I look at their design and wonder what happens when all of these sheets do not line up correctly. Remember, you are setting it up in total darkness.

The 4 x 5 tubes are much more reasonable in price as compared to the 5 x 7 and 8 x 10 tubes because of manufacturing costs. The larger tubes are precision milled. I used the 5 x 7 and 8 x 10 tubes before I went the route of a JOBO CPP2. This decision on my part was predicated on the fact that I can process 5 8 x 10 sheets at a time in one run with my 3005 drum. As I have gained experience in large format and my frustration level has decreased, (thanks in part to this forum), I now shoot more film with a new level of satisfaction.

Check out the Darkroom Innovations web page and give them a call. They have a great brochure that they will provide you with.

[Erik Ryberg]

Tim, I didn't want to pay the $$$ for the BTZS tubes so made my own from directions found at http://www.csd.uu.se/~s93bni/btz.txt. I've been using them for nearly a year. They are very easy to make and easy to use, and above all cheap. I can't imagine going back to film hangars, which I used before, or trays, which I never liked. Erik Ryberg

[stradibarrius]

This thread is very old but I have just recently got into LF. My question is placing the tubes into the stop without any caps while the lights are on.
Does this not flash the negative?

[keith english]

I have used the BTZS tubes for years. Despite peoples qualms, there is no perceptipal fogging of the negs if you do it in subdued light, and quickly dump the developer and immerse the tube in stop bath. It only takes a second to unscrew the cap, with it upside down over a sink or tray, so the developer instantly drains out. You do have to give them a little more fix and clear to remove the backing. By the way, I use the combiplan tank for the fix and wash.

[Bruce Douglas]

Tim,

I use the HP Combi rack and tank as a dip and dunk set up. It works well for me. A disadvantage to is is that all six sheets of film receive the same development. Unlike the tubes you cannot develop each sheet for a specific time and it is done in total darkness.

If you are not going to utilize the Zone system and adjust film development times to control the density range of the negatives, the advantage the tubes provide is perhaps using less chemistry and being able to do some of the processing with the lights on.

Bruce Douglas:)

[David de Gruyl]

And I use both BZTS tubes and HP Combi tank. I do not find that the tank is particularly leaky (although it can be, if you either do not screw the vent back or if you do not open it up) or that it is uneven. It is important to remember to vary the direction that you invert (I change directions by 90 degrees every inversion).

The tubes provide very even development, but require continuous agitation. They also allow you to vary the development on a per-sheet basis. Sometimes you want to develop edge effects, which is aided by minimal agitation (especially in a low concentration of developer). In other words: I use them both, for different reasons.

I have no issues with stopping in subdued light, exactly as shown in the video you reference. Remember, film can be dropped into fix with the lights on and come out clear, so long as it does not come into contact with developer first. If you stop the developing, the image will never form.

[Andrew O'Neill]

I leave the lights on in my darkroom when I plunge the tube(s) into the stop. No worries about fogging. I even checked with my densitometre.
working with these tubes is very economical, too. And, you can use different developers/dilutions, etc all at the same time. I usually develop 4 sheets, sometimes 5. Four is easier with me wee hands.
I also use 8x10 BTZS tubes.

[asnapper]

Here are a couple of videos which demonstrate how to use the tubes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMXQO5ATgiY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_KGv_SqbzU&feature=related

[ki6mf]

I am in agreement with David de Gruyl and have both the HP Combi and BTZS. I prefer the HP Combi, use four of them, and have no problems with them. If they leak it usually because i did not seal the unit properly, or a washer slipped of one of the spigots, my bad for not noticing. Ditto the reduced light for BTZS once stop hits the film development stops and you should have no problem with stop or fix provided you do the process in dim light

[letchhausen]

When watching the video what confuses me is that part where you put in the caps full of chemistry. Doesn't that mean that your film is starting to develop while you go from one tube to the next for five tubes? Or does it happen fast enough that it doesn't matter? Does the two ounces cover the entire sheet at that point?

I currently use Yankee tanks with hangers for HC110 and a corral in trays for Pyro and have no problems with uneven development. My initial attraction to BTZS was thinking it could be done in the light but it turns out not.....perhaps though for pyro development at home it would be good since I don't really have an easy sink space for using the corral tray setup that I use at school....

[stradibarrius]

For some reason I am getting uneven development on the edges with my tubes. I do an initial agitation and the like in the video a continuous spin.
any idaes?

[David de Gruyl]

When watching the video what confuses me is that part where you put in the caps full of chemistry. Doesn't that mean that your film is starting to develop while you go from one tube to the next for five tubes? Or does it happen fast enough that it doesn't matter? Does the two ounces cover the entire sheet at that point?


The 2 oz of developer stays in the cap until you shake it. Once you lay the tube down, and start spinning, the film passes through the developer as it rotates. So long as you keep the agitation continuous (or at least moving) you get even development.

[David de Gruyl]

For some reason I am getting uneven development on the edges with my tubes. I do an initial agitation and the like in the video a continuous spin.
any idaes?

For what it's worth, I switch the order (and thus the direction) every 30 seconds to 1 minute (depending on the total time). On the other hand, I have no idea.

[Brian Ellis]

When watching the video what confuses me is that part where you put in the caps full of chemistry. Doesn't that mean that your film is starting to develop while you go from one tube to the next for five tubes? Or does it happen fast enough that it doesn't matter? Does the two ounces cover the entire sheet at that point?

I currently use Yankee tanks with hangers for HC110 and a corral in trays for Pyro and have no problems with uneven development. My initial attraction to BTZS was thinking it could be done in the light but it turns out not.....perhaps though for pyro development at home it would be good since I don't really have an easy sink space for using the corral tray setup that I use at school....

It balances out at the end. Development starts as you put a tube into the water jacket. You do that in some order, presumably from #1 to #6, so #6 starts development maybe 5 - 10 seconds later than #1. But when you remove them from the water jacket and put the tubes in the stop you remove them in the same order (the tubes don't change position during development) so in the natural order of things #6 will go into the stop bath maybe 5-10 seconds after #1. Which means they all are processed for the same time give or take maybe a second or two.

That assumes, of course, that you want them all to be processed for the same time. One of the nice things about the tubes relative to some other systems is that you can process different sheets for different times in the same run for normal, minus, or plus development if you want to.

As far as being done in the light, you do everything in the light except load the film in the tubes and screw the tubes onto the caps. Once that's done you turn on the lights and leave them on through the wash. Since no system I know of would allow you to load film in light, that's about as light as it gets AFAIK.

I didn't rotate the tubes the way I think the video shows it being done. I ran my hand across the tops of the tubes to rotate them, 10 times in one direction 10 times in the other throughout the development time. Nothing magic about 10, that's just an easy number to remember. I never had uneven development doing it that way though I'm sure there are other equally good methods. The important thing about agitation with any system of developing film isn't so much that you use a particular method. The important thing is that you use the same method every time so you get consistent results.

[RPippin]

I add a pre soak with water for about 5 min before using the developer. So far only with HC110 or D76, have not tried Pyro with the BTZS system yet. With Pyro it's best not to use an acid stop bath, but plain water, so don't know about leaving the lights on. However, it's easy enough to turn on the lights while organizing everything and spinning the tubes, so it's no big deal to switch off the lights before adding the caps with water for a stop. I also use my Kodak stainless hangers for the fix part. Since doing the pre soak to the workflow, I've had no problems with streaking or uneven development.

[letchhausen]

Thanks for the information, that helps. I manage to do multiple times in Yankee tanks without to much trouble but like I said would like to figure out a method for home development. Thanks.

[jeroldharter]

I have never needed to use a pre-soak with BTZS tubes. I think that adds a lot of room for problems or at least nuisance because the lights must be out completely when "attaching" the developer cap. I would recommend against a routine pre-soak with BTZS tubes.

[Graybeard]

The BTZS tubes are a clever idea but their usefulness may depend on the film format which you process and the ambient temperature of your darkroom.

I'm in northern New York State and my darkroom (quite a nice one, BTW) is in the basement of an old farmhouse located on the side of a hill - the basement is below grade. With the exception of July and August, I have to heat the darkroom in order to reach an ambient greater than about 62F. A superior wine cellar it is, but a chilly darkroom it is as well. Eddie Gunks is south of me.

I do my processing in a surplus (eBay source) laboratory constant temperature bath which holds 72F +/- 0.1 F well (quite the thing for 35mm in Nikor tanks also). The BTZS tubes are intended to be used floating in a tank (tray) of water in order to maintain temperature during development. I'm not at all comfortable with the temperature variation that will occur if development is in a pan of water which relies on (my) room temperature for temperature regulation (several degree F cycle).

The 4x5 BTZS would fit (just) into the CT bath that I have and all would be well, temperatue wise. 8x10 BTZS tube are about 14" long and are simply too large for my temperature bath.

What works for me is use of film hangers and immersing the developer tank in the laboratory constant temperature bath. Temperature swings of +/- 5 F are unmiportant for the solution chemistry susequent to development and I have those tanks in the sink, their temperature following the darkroom ambient. Negative scratches just aren't a problem with the hangers.

I tend to process negatives in lots of 25-35 at a time (4x5, 5x7, 8x10), so the low solution volume requirement per negative advantage of the BTZS tube is lost for me, given the way that I work.

I'm a retired physical chemist. While I admire the ingenuity of the BTZS tube approach to film processing (and I have some tubes here) I feel that I have better control with hangers and tanks.

Your mileage may vary, of course.

[photobymike]

ok ok i had a chance to use some BTZS tubes. i used them in my friends darkroom. I liked them maybe for color neg film but the tray only held 6. i can do 24 sheets of film with my jobo 2500 tank system at the same time. And i dont need a darkroom ... except a harrison tent. The tubes are cheaper and current tech and available. I guess the BTZS tubes would have to be a second choice for me. I prewash all my film. Thats hard to do with the tubes without a darkroom. My film developing work flow has been refined by me over the years, and hard to change i guess.

[Professional]

Sorry to post here, but i've got that BTZS today and i really don't know how to use it either from youtube video clip or the included instructions manual, the video clip is a bit not so detailed step by step for me, and the manual is not so straight forward and my English is not that good to understand all the steps/procedures on the manual, so i hope i can find a link or help somewhere about how to use this BTZS without problem.

[RPippin]

When I first starting using the BTZS tubes, I wasn't very happy with the results. Uneven development, general poor quality. Lately I've had great luck with the tubes for 4X5 as well as 8X10, and what I've done different is to presoak for a good 5 min, with constant agitation first. After doing the standard procedure with stop bath, sometimes just water, I take the film out and put them in stainless hangers to fix. I've done this with the lights on and have no fogging. Being a little more careful with the film when loading in the hangers has prevented any scratching. I also shake the tubes with the presoak and developer a bit as well. Check out the videos on the procedure and follow them to see how they turn out.