Uneven Skies w Pyrocat and Foma in 8x10

[G Benaim]

Hi all,

I'm having trouble getting even skies using pyrocat-hd at 1:100, 3 liters per 11x14 tray, and foma film in 8x10, and am curious whether this is a problem of technique or materials. I should say that I'm tray processing and developing by inspection, and that my dev temperature at present is around 74-75 deg. Not every neg w skies shows unevenness, and negs without skies show none, at least that shows up on a print. The kind of unevenness is of 2 types. Either along the edge of the sky, when there's a small amount of sky at the top, and it looks like a sine wave (loosely speaking) alternating areas of lighter and darker sky. The other type is where in a large expanse of sky, there'll be blotches or spots in the middle.
So, would cooler developer make a difference, or is it a matter of especially finicky materials when it comes to sky tones? Any and all pointers are appreciated.

GB

[G Benaim]

Just to add, I presoak for 3-4 mins., use a stopa bath, and don't have a scanner to show you the actual negs.

[Ken Lee]

How do you agitate your film - and how often ?

I try to use a developing time of 10 minutes at minimum, even though it takes longer that way. Longer development times give you time to perform DBI - especially if you use an infra red viewer (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/tech.html#Monocular) - and reduce small timing differences when working with many sheets at the same time.

I routinely develop 20 negatives at the same time, using Sterilite food containers (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/devtray.htm) instead of trays.

You might consider diluting the developer more, if you can't lower the temperature.

[eddie]

what are your development times? i am no expert but i will take a stab.

how many sheets do you do at once?

how do you put the film into the developer? one sheet at a time, making sure it is fully submerged is what i do. i made a mistake a while back and put more than one sheet in and they kinda stuck together just long enough to give me problems.

i also use foma100 and pyro. maybe try this once and see how you do. 20C 1:1:100 for 12 min. or 2:2:100 for 6 min. presoak.

[G Benaim]

Hi,

I shuffle film constantly, put in 1 sheet at a time, dev for about 10 mins at 74 deg for foma 200 at 1:1:100.

[Ken Lee]

Are your hands clean ? Is the film clean ?

Have you tried a different brand of film ?

Have you tried a different size of film ?

[Gene McCluney]

As I commented over on another forum, FOMA has to be the most "finnicky" film in regards to getting even development.

[Walter Foscari]

...FOMA has to be the most "finnicky" film..
Agreed, both the 100 and the 200.
Been rolling them in an expert drum in Pyrocat HD and was having all sort of uneven dev issues when none of the Ilford stuff was giving me trouble. Had to resort to longer presoak, more developer, pouring the chemicals while drum is turning, and manually inverting the rotation every minute (I roll it on a uniroller base that has been set to roll one direction only). Now I finally get good results. And I think foma is beatiful stuff when developed properly.

[Jim Noel]

I develop 2 sheets of 7x17 at a time, back to back. I use 12 minutes with 5 minute pre-soak. Agitate first 30 seconds and then 5 seconds each 30 seconds. Agitation is accomplished by turning the sheets over 3 times each 30 seconds. No streaks or uneven skies plague me.

[Ken Lee]

It sounds like FOMA may seem more affordable at first, but one pays the price eventually.

[Kirk Gittings]

I have never tried FOMA, but have about heard this issue many times. I'm wondering what people think is the cause? Uneven coatings?

[Vlad Soare]

...FOMA has to be the most "finnicky" film..
Agreed, both the 100 and the 200.
I don't know about 8x10", but I have used Fomapan 100 in 4x5" and 120, Fomapan 200 in 120, and Fomapan 400 in 35mm.
I've never had any uneven development (except once, but that was entirely my fault - I had not used the black caps of my Jobo 2509N). I've also never encountered any other manufacturing defect. No pinholes in the emulsion, no sheets missing the notch, no curling of the 120 or 135 films, no nothing. I was very reluctant at first, thinking that an inexpensive film cannot be any good, but now I believe I was wrong.
I also use Foma papers and chemicals, and they have never given me any reason to complain.

I use Rodinal (actually R09) or HC-110. I've never used Pyrocat HD. Could this perhaps be a finicky developer? Or maybe it's just the combination of Pyrocat and Foma that doesn't work? :confused:

[eddie]

I don't know about 8x10", but I have used Fomapan 100 in 4x5" and 120, Fomapan 200 in 120, and Fomapan 400 in 35mm.
I've never had any uneven development (except once, but that was entirely my fault - I had not used the black caps of my Jobo 2509N). I've also never encountered any other manufacturing defect. No pinholes in the emulsion, no sheets missing the notch, no curling of the 120 or 135 films, no nothing. I was very reluctant at first, thinking that an inexpensive film cannot be any good, but now I believe I was wrong.
I also use Foma papers and chemicals, and they have never given me any reason to complain.

I use Rodinal (actually R09) or HC-110. I've never used Pyrocat HD. Could this perhaps be a finicky developer? Or maybe it's just the combination of Pyrocat and Foma that doesn't work? :confused:

i agree with the above. i have been using foma 100 in 4x5 for years now. 1000s of sheets. i also use the 5x7 and 8x10. i have only had one problem and that was my fault (see above).

i guess the last option would be to try it again with a longer pre soak and maybe a lower temp (20C). another thing you can try is hc110. i have used hc110 with great results. even for my VDB the hc110 negs give me very very close results to the pyro hd negs (sometimes i think about switching back to hc110 all together). i use 1:63 dil. for 9 min. at 20C.

[Daniel Grenier]

Try brush development of your film , GB. You may well be surprised and pleased by the results with regards to uneven skies. Do a search under "brush" in the title as it has been well explained here before. It is more time consuming but worth the "trouble".

[Gene McCluney]

It sounds like FOMA may seem more affordable at first, but one pays the price eventually.

Not true..you just have to "learn" it. It is more difficult to "learn" than Kodak or Ilford films, but I get perfect results with Fomapan 200 now.

[Ken Lee]

Sounds right.

By process of elimination, it appears that there is something involving the film/developer combination, or perhaps the water itself.

GB, have you had the same problems with other developers ? Do you mix your own Pyrocat HD ? Is it the version which is dissolved in Glycol ? Is there anything special about your water ?

[G Benaim]

Hi Ken,

I buy the pre-mixed in glycol from PF. I'll try rodinal and lower temps, see what gives.