Steinheil Lens

[Brian Bullen]

I picked up this little lens yesterday at a local camera show and wondered if the lens masters could help with identifying exact type, date of manufacture, and coverage. Barrel reads Steinheil in Munchen No 40176 , focal length is ~24 inches. Front and back are symmetrical, the element diameter is 1 3/4" and inside aperture is 1 5/16". Each element is a cemented triplet. Overall length (with hood) is 2 1/4".
I'm assuming it's a wide angle aplanat because of the small size and my estimation of max aperture is F 18. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Dan Fromm]

Cemented triplets do not an aplanat make.

A pair of cemented doublets, each element biconvex, an aplanat makes, at least in the VM's cross section of a Steinheil aplanat. See http://www.dioptrique.info/base/n/n_aplanat.htm for a number of aplanat cross sections and here for cross sections of a number of lenses with six elements, some of them pairs of cemented triplets.

Good snag! Inexpensive, I hope.

[Brian Bullen]

Cemented triplets do not an aplanat make.
Dan,
Thanks for the reply and the great link. Wonderful resource that I clearly need to study up on.:)
I thought I'd add a photo of one of the elements.

[Arne Croell]

I picked up this little lens yesterday at a local camera show and wondered if the lens masters could help with identifying exact type, date of manufacture, and coverage. Barrel reads Steinheil in Munchen No 40176 , focal length is ~24 inches. Front and back are symmetrical, the element diameter is 1 3/4" and inside aperture is 1 5/16". Each element is a cemented triplet. Overall length (with hood) is 2 1/4".
I'm assuming it's a wide angle aplanat because of the small size and my estimation of max aperture is F 18. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Actually, it could be an Aplanat despite what Dan said, although its generally true that they are 4/2. My (German) Steinheil book places your serial no. in 1894-1895. It also lists a number of "Weitwinkel-Aplanat für Reproduktionen" lenses with a 6/2 construction and a max. aperture of 1:15 around that time. They came in focal lengths of 360, 450, 600, 780, 970, 1220, 1420, 1700, and 2000mm. So the 600mm would fit your description. The Orthostigmats, which are the most well known 6/2 lenses from Steinheil usually have much larger openings (f/.6.8-f/12) and most were made later.

[Dan Fromm]

Oh, dear, wrong again. Thanks, Arne, for the correction.

[Brian Bullen]

Arne,
Thank you, exactly what I was looking for.

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that wide angle aplanats occasionally had the 6/2 configuration, but after searching the web I couldn't find any information at all. Was Steinheil the only maker or are there other wide angle aplanat/rectilinears out there with a 6/2 design?

[Arne Croell]

Arne,
Thank you, exactly what I was looking for.

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that wide angle aplanats occasionally had the 6/2 configuration, but after searching the web I couldn't find any information at all. Was Steinheil the only maker or are there other wide angle aplanat/rectilinears out there with a 6/2 design?

I don't really know about other manufacturers. In the Steinheil book this specific one, essentially an Aplanat version of a w.a. process lens (thats what the German name I quoted above means), is the only 6/2 Aplanat. Their landscape w.a. Aplanats are 4/2.

[Brian Bullen]

Arne,
Interesting stuff, thank you very much!

[Brian Bullen]

In case anyone is interested, I tried this lens out on my newly finished 18"x24" and it covers wide open at infinity with ease. With full rise, about 5 1/2", there is no darkening of the corners. Looks pretty sharp overall.
Makes me wonder what the largest negative this lens could cover?

[sultanofcognac]

I have an Aplanat 14 Lin(?) that says Steinheil in München No 9237. Can you date this? It also has three Waterhouse stops. I'm considering on placing it onto evilBay but don't know anything about it, nor what sort of outcome to expect from the auction.

Thanks,

johnny

[Dan Fromm]

Pont puts s/n 5000 in 1875, 15000 in 1885. So around 1880 for 9237 seems a reasonable guess.

[sultanofcognac]

thanks

[gstachow]

Pont puts s/n 5000 in 1875, 15000 in 1885. So around 1880 for 9237 seems a reasonable guess.

Sorry to resurrect a very old thread, but the topic seems appropriate and hopefully the knowledgeable Dan and Arne will be able to help. :)

I work at the Mt. Suhora Astronomical Observatory in Poland, and we have just been given an old refractor which was gathering dust in Brno, Czech Republic, for use as a guide scope on our 60cm telescope. On taking it apart to clean it we found the objective lens is marked "Steinheil in Munchen No. 4810". We know the diameter is 15cm and the focal length is around 2.5m. Since Dan and Arne have knowledge of these things, perhaps they can shed some light on this lens. From the above quote I guess it is ~1874-75. Any more information?

Many thanks,

Greg Stachowski

[Arne Croell]

Sorry to resurrect a very old thread, but the topic seems appropriate and hopefully the knowledgeable Dan and Arne will be able to help. :)

I work at the Mt. Suhora Astronomical Observatory in Poland, and we have just been given an old refractor which was gathering dust in Brno, Czech Republic, for use as a guide scope on our 60cm telescope. On taking it apart to clean it we found the objective lens is marked "Steinheil in Munchen No. 4810". We know the diameter is 15cm and the focal length is around 2.5m. Since Dan and Arne have knowledge of these things, perhaps they can shed some light on this lens. From the above quote I guess it is ~1874-75. Any more information?

Many thanks,

Greg Stachowski
Well, Steinheil started out as a company famous for its scientific instruments, especially telescopes, and photographic lenses came later. Your refractor has probably been built on order for the observatory in Brno. The book I referred to has information on this history; however, I am in the USA right now and the book is in Germany, and I won't be back until mid-October, so maybe somebody else can chime in.

Arne

[Dan Fromm]

Thanks for asking, but I can't help you.

Sorry,

Dan

[gstachow]

Well, Steinheil started out as a company famous for its scientific instruments, especially telescopes, and photographic lenses came later. Your refractor has probably been built on order for the observatory in Brno. The book I referred to has information on this history; however, I am in the USA right now and the book is in Germany, and I won't be back until mid-October, so maybe somebody else can chime in.

Arne

Many thanks for the reply! You're probably right that it was built to order, it was sitting in the Observatory in Bno unused for many years. Do you perhaps remember the title or author of the book? I might be able to find a copy. If not, I guess I'll have to wait until October ;)

Thanks again,

Greg

[gstachow]

Thanks for asking, but I can't help you.

Sorry,

Dan

That's ok, thanks for replying anyway.

[Dr Klaus Schmitt]

Sorry to resurrect a very old thread, but the topic seems appropriate and hopefully the knowledgeable Dan and Arne will be able to help. :)

I work at the Mt. Suhora Astronomical Observatory in Poland, and we have just been given an old refractor which was gathering dust in Brno, Czech Republic, for use as a guide scope on our 60cm telescope. On taking it apart to clean it we found the objective lens is marked "Steinheil in Munchen No. 4810". We know the diameter is 15cm and the focal length is around 2.5m. Since Dan and Arne have knowledge of these things, perhaps they can shed some light on this lens. From the above quote I guess it is ~1874-75. Any more information?

Many thanks,

Greg Stachowski

It must have been made 1870, as in that year the serial numbers 4531 to 5120 have been made and yours falls in that range.

Hope that helps.

[Arne Croell]

Many thanks for the reply! You're probably right that it was built to order, it was sitting in the Observatory in Bno unused for many years. Do you perhaps remember the title or author of the book? I might be able to find a copy. If not, I guess I'll have to wait until October ;)

Thanks again,

Greg
Yes, it is this book: http://www.amazon.de/Steinheil-M%C3%BCnchner-Optik-mit-Tradition/dp/3895061972/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1280339938&sr=8-2

[gstachow]

It must have been made 1870, as in that year the serial numbers 4531 to 5120 have been made and yours falls in that range.

Hope that helps.


Yes, it is this book: http://www.amazon.de/Steinheil-M%C3%BCnchner-Optik-mit-Tradition/dp/3895061972/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1280339938&sr=8-2


Great! Thank you both very much! You've been most kind and helpful. I shall try to find the book, and in any case I now know the manufacturing date.

I've attached a photo of the lens for interest, unfortunately not very good (taken with a phone, I'll take some better pictures another day). Hopefully within a couple of months after (careful) cleaning and remounting it should be back doing its original job, looking at the stars - 140 years after being made. It's nice to have a little piece of history :)

Thanks again,

Greg

[Dr Klaus Schmitt]

I wish you best of luck restoring it to its intended use Greg!

Not sure if you could find that book outside of Germany (it is
written in German). The ISBN is 3895061972

This is in German also but about telescopes so you might like it:
http://www.achromat.de/oldpage/html/sitemap/frameset_archiv_steinheil.html
these look like the one you have! http://www.achromat.de/oldpage/html/frameset_wissen.html
http://www.achromat.de/oldpage/pictures/wissen/achromate_03g.jpg

[gstachow]

I wish you best of luck restoring it to its intended use Greg!

Not sure if you could find that book outside of Germany (it is
written in German). The ISBN is 3895061972

This is in German also but about telescopes so you might like it:
http://www.achromat.de/oldpage/html/sitemap/frameset_archiv_steinheil.html
these look like the one you have! http://www.achromat.de/oldpage/html/frameset_wissen.html


Yes, it does indeed look very similar (although shinier ...). Thanks for the good wishes and the interesting links!

Cheers,

Greg

[renes]

I have bought C.A. Steinheil Sohne Munchen 9x12 plate camera with Steinheil Orthostigmat 120/6.8 lens, serial No.62393 Pat. Could you date it?

[Louis Pacilla]

Hey Renes. I don't know if you noticed but this is an older post. I've not heard from some of the O.P.'s for a while. You may not get an answer. Then again.....

Peace