favorite paper

[ignatiusjk]

I'm trying to see what all of you like as far as paper type goes. I've never tried Epson's Exibition paper.Have any of you tried this paper and if so what did you think of it. What paper do you like and why.All I've been doing right now is just making 4x6 "proofs" I'm going to be making some 16x20's and wanted to know what paper's are good.I prefer fiber based.

[Greg Lockrey]

Harmon FB Gloss AI is my absolute favorite but Epson's Enhanced Matt is my standard to which I need to match for all others but since you want FB paper I like both Epson's Texture and Smooth Fine Art depending on the look that needs to be achieved.

[Vaughn]

COT 320 for platinum prints.

Vaughn

[Greg Lockrey]

COT 320 for platinum prints.

Vaughn

How about for carbon prints? (Real carbon prints). :)

[Vaughn]

How about for carbon prints? (Real carbon prints). :)

Old photo paper that others are throwing out because it is too old to print on. Just about anything works -- I prefer fiber glossy. The old Kodak Elite is great, though the one I use the most has been the old Ilford Gallerie. All I have to do is toss it in the fixer to get rid of that useless silver!;)

The only paper I found that did not work was Oriental Fiber, Glossy (graded) -- it somehow attracts the carbon particles and creates a fogging effect. And wouldn't you know it -- it has been the only photo paper I have ever bought as the final support of carbon prints (on sale, grade 1).

For the carbon tissue, as the temporary support, I use used litho film the students toss out. Nothing more eco than a process that can used recycled material!

Vaughn

PS...I could not resist tossing in the post with COT 320 -- seeing how this thread is in the wrong forum:p

[Andrew O'Neill]

Favourite paper was forte polygrade V until production came to a halt. I'm liking Oriental VC now...Hey, I don't care if this thread is about inky jetty paper...it wasn't specified in the heading:D

[JBrunner]

I refuse to announce a favorite paper. Manufacturers monitor me, and upon an announcement of paper that I like, they discontinue it!:eek:

[PViapiano]

My everyday standby is Ilford MGIV, but I have a stash of Agfa MC118 that I love. Some of the Foma and Bergger papers are stunning as well...

[Mattg]

Ilford Galerie and EMAKS, a good pair to complement each other. Galerie cool and clinical, EMAKS warm and emotional.

[Peter Latner]

Best paper I've ever used:

Bergger VCCB (variable-contrast, warm-tone, fiber, glossy)--selenium-toned and optically brightened in Sprint End Run Print Brightening Converter.

Close second: Ilford Galerie.

[Drew Wiley]

Since Seagull G seems a little off nowadays, and as my stock of Forte Polygrade V is
slowly disappearing, I've turned to Kentmere Fineprint. Getting wonderful results with
glycin and amidol developers.

[John Kasaian]

Ilford Galerie, Emaks and Kentmere Bromide are what I'm using these days (I've also got a stash of AZO for negatives that truly deserve it)

[Turner Reich]

Kodabromide and Polycontrast :D .

The older, 1980's Oriental, just like Ansel Adams used. I wish some of the old Platinum and other contact papers were still around.

[chinapaul]

Ilford and kentmere are useing now.
I've used Bergger and Forte.

Oriental is still for sell in Japan and Hongkong.

[Gary L. Quay]

I've been meaning to try Ilford Galerie for years. I've seen a number of mentions of it as a favorite paper on this post. Before I blow a wad on a package, what makes it a superior paper?

My current favorite is Kentmere VC Select FB, but I just opened a package of the Arista II FB Grade 4, and I was impressed.

--Gary

[Bill_1856]

Agra Portriga Rapid/Selectol.
With the re-introduction of MCC I may even set up my darkroom again. I loved it in Ansco 130, and would like to try Amidol.

[Jim Graves]

I'll second Bergger Variable CB Warm Tone Glossy fiber ... beautiful paper ... bright whites and really nice tonal range.

[jnantz]

i like a few different papers, old blue box seagul, and the old forte ...
i like using expired agfa grade 1 for paper negatives.

[Vlad Soare]

Forte Polywarmtone FB, semi-matte.
Unfortunately it's extinct. :( I'm still searching for a replacement.

[Ole Tjugen]

I've been meaning to try Ilford Galerie for years. I've seen a number of mentions of it as a favorite paper on this post. Before I blow a wad on a package, what makes it a superior paper? ...

It looks great, has a great tonality, and is "flexible" enough that Grade 2 paper can stretch from Grade 1/2 to 3 1/2 by adjusting development. It also responds very well to most toners.

That, and Bergger Silver Supreme, are my favorites.

[mcfactor]

ill second the galerie. its by far my favorite paper. Great neutral to warmtones and wonderful microcontrast. I have also been using emaks for contact sheets. in ansco 130 its very rich and slightly warmer than galerie, but not quite as sharp.

[D. Bryant]

It looks great, has a great tonality, and is "flexible" enough that Grade 2 paper can stretch from Grade 1/2 to 3 1/2 by adjusting development. It also responds very well to most toners.

That, and Bergger Silver Supreme, are my favorites.

The Ilford Galerie that is being sold today isn't the same as it was years ago. A better paper then than now, IMO.

Don Bryant

[Ole Tjugen]

Mine was bought last year, and it's that "modern" version i like.

[mcfactor]

yeah, i cant attest to how the paper was years ago, but i can tell you that compared to today's papers, it its my favorite.

[John Bowen]

Favorite paper = Lodima......cause it is the only silver chloride paper still in production :-)

[Allen in Montreal]

.....old blue box seagull.........

That was great stuff wasn't it!

I still have a fridge full and hold my breath every time I open a new box praying it will still be good.

[Allen in Montreal]

Agfa Insignia...... RIP :(

[venchka]

Old photo paper that others are throwing out because it is too old to print on. Just about anything works -- I prefer fiber glossy. The old Kodak Elite is great, though the one I use the most has been the old Ilford Gallerie. All I have to do is toss it in the fixer to get rid of that useless silver!;)

The only paper I found that did not work was Oriental Fiber, Glossy (graded) -- it somehow attracts the carbon particles and creates a fogging effect. And wouldn't you know it -- it has been the only photo paper I have ever bought as the final support of carbon prints (on sale, grade 1).

For the carbon tissue, as the temporary support, I use used litho film the students toss out. Nothing more eco than a process that can used recycled material!

Vaughn

PS...I could not resist tossing in the post with COT 320 -- seeing how this thread is in the wrong forum:p

Thanks Vaughn. Last night I discovered that a 50 sheet box of Ilford MGIV that I was given is terminally fogged. I'm guessing that the companion box of 16x20 is in similar condition. I was ready to toss it in the dumpster. Perhaps I should save it for exploring carbon transfer printing. I wasn't too thrilled with the curl along all four sides either. However, after developing, the curl disappeared.

[Fred L]

I miss the old Zone VI Brilliant paper when it was made by Guillemot in France. Really miss it. Kentmere Bromide is my current go to paper.

[redrockcoulee]

I'll add another thanks to that suggestion for old fogged paper. Lately I have been given some old papers including an unopened box of 500 sheets of 8X10 Opal. With an expiration date in 69!. Most of the the other papers are much newer and several years ago was donated a box of 8X10 Azo that is still good. As have only getting my darkroom up and running I have not had the opportunity to try out some of the boxes. That and several boxes of various Polycontrast from I to III.

Used to like Gallerie the best in the past.

[John Bowen]

I'll add another thanks to that suggestion for old fogged paper. Lately I have been given some old papers including an unopened box of 500 sheets of 8X10 Opal. With an expiration date in 69!. Most of the the other papers are much newer and several years ago was donated a box of 8X10 Azo that is still good. As have only getting my darkroom up and running I have not had the opportunity to try out some of the boxes. That and several boxes of various Polycontrast from I to III.

Used to like Gallerie the best in the past.

check APUG for threads dealing with developers to use with old fogged paper. Randy Libersky has done some nice work using very old, fogged papers.

[MIke Sherck]

Ilford MG Warmtone or Kentmere Fineprint. Still missing Forte, or Cachet right after Oriental disappeared (the first time.)

[evan clarke]

Ilford WT FB glossy, developed neutral, selenium toned (minutely warm/neutral). Bad news is that Calumet in Chicago (shipping center) did not have one box of 11x14 yesterday...Evan Clarke

[Vlad Soare]

Favorite paper = Lodima......cause it is the only silver chloride paper still in production :-)
What does that mean in practice? Why is silver chloride so great?

[Vlad Soare]

What does that mean in practice? Why is silver chloride so great?
I'm really curious about this. I've heard (actually read) several times about how great silver chloride papers used to be. Why is that? What made them so special?
I imagine they were warm toned and very slow. But modern chlorobromide papers seem warm enough to me, and the slowness can be easily achieved by stopping down the lens. So it must be something else. What?

By the way, Lodima is not the only chloride paper in production. Foma makes one, called Fomalux (RC only, unfortunately). :p

[John Bowen]

What does that mean in practice? Why is silver chloride so great?


Silver Chloride papers have a VERY, VERY LONG tonal range. (Think Platinum Papers...much longer than other silver papers) They also can vary in print tone/color depending on the developer/toner used.

Azo is a dream to print with. As a good friend of mine states "it's almost like cheating." :eek:

Check out www.michaelandpaula.com for articles/discussions on Azo and other silver chloride papers.

Hope this helps answer your question,

[Chuck Pere]

How does a long tonal range differ from a low contrast grade paper?

[Vaughn]

[QUOTE=redrockcoulee;414446]...Lately I have been given some old papers including an unopened box of 500 sheets of 8X10 Opal. With an expiration date in 69!...QUOTE]

You might find that the Opal is easy to work with! I have found that they tend to keep very well!

Vaughn

[Vlad Soare]

Thanks John, I think I understand.
Chuck, I think I know what John is trying to say. It's not just about being low in contrast. A low contrast grade paper has a lot of grays, but no white and no black. If you go higher in contrast until you get clean blacks and whites, you start losing some of the grays. If I understand correctly, John is saying that Azo can give you clean whites and blacks without sacrificing intermediate grays.

[John Bowen]

Thanks John, I think I understand.
Chuck, I think I know what John is trying to say. It's not just about being low in contrast. A low contrast grade paper has a lot of grays, but no white and no black. If you go higher in contrast until you get clean blacks and whites, you start losing some of the grays. If I understand correctly, John is saying that Azo can give you clean whites and blacks without sacrificing intermediate grays.


Yes. Thanks for expanding on my answer. I was struggling on how to respond to Chuck's question.

I didn't get started wiht 8x10 and Azo until 2005, in fact, I ordered my first boxes of Azo from Michael Smith the DAY before Kodak announced they were bailing on the b&w paper business....

With the last batch of Canadian Grade 2 Azo, the Dmax isn't as great as the older Rochester Grade 2. However, with the right negative (think well exposed and VERY fully developed...I shoot TMY and process it in Pyrocat HD 2:2:100) the prints this paper can deliver are wonderful. It took me several hundred sheets (I shoot 8x10) to get comfortable with the Canadian Grade 2/Michael Smith Amidol combination. Of course I first developed it in Dektol (because that is what I had on hand) and didn't like the tone of the prints....I didn't like much of anything about the prints. I spent significant time on the Azo forum reading Michael Smith's articles then reading ALL the posts and learning from other Azo users.....It takes some time and effort to produce negatives that allow Azo to really shine, but once you get the hang of it, it is actually quite easy to print with Azo. I was also able to purchase some Azo prints from Ryan McIntosh on Ebay for about $50-$100. There were others that sold Azo prints on Ebay (and may well still be those that sell Azo prints on Ebay). This helped in seeing 1st hand just what others were able to produce with these materials.

I think if you just took the negative from the print you are most proud of, purchased some Azo/Lodima and made a print from that negative you would likely ask the question "what's all the fuss about?" Most of us that use Azo also develop our negatives in a pyro developer. The density added by the pyro stain helps fit the negative to the paper. I don't think I have a print from a Tri-X HC-110 negative that really allows the paper to show it's stuff. I'm also certain that there are those out there that have produced wonderful Azo prints from Tri-X HC-110 negatives. I've just found TMY/Pyrocat HD a better combination for my way of working.

I hope this helps,

[Chuck Pere]

A low contrast paper has the same black and white end points as higher contrast paper. See http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/20061302013402375.pdf
You just will need a negative that matches the paper contrast.

[jnantz]

That was great stuff wasn't it!

I still have a fridge full and hold my breath every time I open a new box praying it will still be good.

i still have a little left too, vintage 1987 i think, grades 2, 3 and 4.
yeah, i liked it alot ...

[Ben Hopson]

Harman Bayrta FB Al is what I am currently using and I wish I had tried it sooner.

[Vlad Soare]

A low contrast paper has the same black and white end points as higher contrast paper. See http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/...2013402375.pdf
You just will need a negative that matches the paper contrast.
True, but on the other hand such a negative will have to be very high in contrast. You win on the paper but lose on the negative. :)

Thanks for the explanation, John. I understand now.

[Vlad Soare]

Is silver chloride paper really limited to contact printing? I know it's slower than enlarging papers, but how much slower? Are we talking 100 seconds? 200 seconds? 5 minutes?
Does anyone use Azo/Lodima for enlarging?
I'm very curious about it and would like to give it a try, but I have no plans to go bigger than 4x5" in the foreseeable future, so contact printing is out of the question. For me it's either enlarging or nothing.
Thanks.

[Mark Sampson]

Vlad, when I tried enlarging on Azo, my exposure times were above 3 minutes, so I gave it up as impractical. However, at the Azo Forum, on michaelandpaula.com, there's a category called "Enlarging on Azo"; I believe that someone invented an enlarger light source powerful enough to do the job.

[John Bowen]

Vlad,

Yes there is an Azo head. Michael Smith sold 10 of them prior to Kodak discontinuing Azo. They were $1,900 each when new.

I would suggest you consider contact printing some 4x5 or medium format negatives on Azo/Lodima. You will likely fall in love with the small prints. Peter Schrager has done some marvelous work contact printing smaller negatives on Azo and Platinum. Granted this may not be ideal for the "grand landscape," but for the right subject matter, say abstracts, a flower or even portraits it is hard to beat.

Paula Chamlee has produced some medium format Azo contact prints. I haven't seen them, but I'd bet they are just wonderful little gems.

Good luck,

[Drew Wiley]

Slightly off topic, but it's not all that difficult to enlarge onto Azo. Light sources have even been made which will enlarge onto Pt/Pd and carbon tissue. It's an easier project
than building a specialized colorhead. You need a fast lens with good UV tansmittance,
UV-tranmitting carrier glass, UV-tolerant bellows and gasket material (silicone or hypalon rubber), a serious cooling system, then the high-output lamp itself. The most
difficult project is always the mirror box and diffusion, since these need to be heat and
UV tolerant too. For Azo per se you really just need a strong halgen source and a fast
lens. Be interesting to see how the new paper responds, even though I rarely use
chloride papers myself.

[John Bowen]

The latest Nikon enlarging lenses are better at transmitting UV than Schneder, Rodenstock etc.