Amount of developer

[SMBooth]

Is there a recommended amount of developer per sq inch of film?

[Greg Lockrey]

Yes.

[SMBooth]

OK, ive read that D76 will develop 80 square inches in 473 mL so doing the math for 5x4 sheet, works out to around 120ml per sheet. I cannot find the same information for Rodinal is it much the same?

[Greg Lockrey]

The size of the container that you will be using will also determine the mount of developer used. Basically most containers require more liquid than the minimum amount of developer required per square inch.

[SMBooth]

I was just wondering if i used BTZS tubes or a rotating drum what the min amount would be needed. I understand if using reel you would need to fill to a level covering the reel.

Thanks Shane

[Bruce Watson]

Is there a recommended amount of developer per sq inch of film?

There is. It will vary from developer to developer. The manufacturer's instruction sheet should list the amount of stock developer needed, usually to develop 80 sq. in. of film (an 8x10 sheet) which is the same as a 36 exposure roll of 135 film, four 4x5s, etc.

For example, XTOL wants 100ml of stock solution for each 80 sq. in. of film developed. When I develop ten 4x5 sheets at a time, I need 250ml of stock. Since I dilute the developer 1:3, that's 250ml of stock + 750 ml of water to make one liter of XTOL 1:3. Works like a charm.

[venchka]

I concur with Bruce. I use Xtol 1:3 in a Jobo 3010 (600ml total for 6 sheets) or Paterson tanks (700ml per 120 roll). Now if I could just get my times dialed in.

The official Agfa word on Rodinal: 10ml per 80 sq. in. Numerous users on the internet report quantities as low as 2.5ml per 36 exp. roll of 35mm film.

My last roll of 120 (Efke R25) was developed in a combination of the two: 175ml Xtol + 7ml Rodinal + 525ml water = 700ml.

[Henry Ambrose]

Keep in mind that the numbers referenced here and in manufacturer's suggestions are -minimum- amounts. A little more might be a good idea, especially when the developer is used at higher dilutions. Always use plenty of developer.

[venchka]

I agree Henry. I use 700ml in a Paterson tank so that I have 1/2" or more of developer covering the reel. I use 600ml to 1 liter in the Jobo 3010 for the same reason. Good coverage and no fear of developer depletion. Chemicals are much much cheaper than film or my time and expenses to expose the film.

[Brian Ellis]

BTZS 4x5 tubes take two ounces of developer per tube. So with D76 1-1 , for example, I used one ounce of stock and one ounce of water. One of the many nice things about BTZS tubes - minimal chemical usage.

[venchka]

So much for Kodak's obviously conservative minimum amount of developer.

[Michael Graves]

OK, ive read that D76 will develop 80 square inches in 473 mL so doing the math for 5x4 sheet, works out to around 120ml per sheet. I cannot find the same information for Rodinal is it much the same?

I develop HP5 in Rodinal, using a Jobo 3010. 500ml of working solution, 1:50 give full development at 11.5 minutes, even though that is slightly beyond the recommended capacity.

[tgtaylor]

I posted this question on the wrong thread - the one that dates back to 2001.

Originally Posted by tgtaylor
The volume recommended by Jobo on the 2521 tank is for the minimun volume to cover the roll (one roll on the outside of the reel?) during rotation. But the volumne of chemistry needed to develope the roll is set by, in this case, Kodak - the film's manufactor.

BUT since the amount of chemistry required in c-41 is dependent upon the films speed (faster films seem to require more chemistry), do you think you could squeeze 4 rolls of ISO 160 speed out of 1 liter of developer instead of Kodak recommended 3 rolls/liter since the Kodak table is given for films ranging from 100 to 200 ISO?

What do you think?

Thanks :)
Thomas

[boris]

i would suggest some testing. in my case i develop 6 sheets 5x7 b/w film in a jobo 3006 drum. if i would follow the kodak suggestions i should use 375mm stock d-76. i use it deluted 1:1 so 750mm liquid. i tried to follow the recomendations but felt pity for the poor motor of the jobo processor. so i tried the following:
i exposed two sheets with zone VIII and developed the first, alone, in 500ml (250+250) d-76 1:1. in the next run i developed a full drum of 5x7 film ( 6 sheets) in the same amount of developer. i compared the two zone VIII negativs under the densitometer and could not finde any difference in density!
i don´t want to save developer but do want to reduce the weight on the motor.

[venchka]

Boris,

That is good information. I would like to save the motors in my Uniroller & Beseler motor base as well.

[SMBooth]

Thanks that answered all my current questions. There may be more....

[tgtaylor]

i would suggest some testing. in my case i develop 6 sheets 5x7 b/w film in a jobo 3006 drum. if i would follow the kodak suggestions i should use 375mm stock d-76. i use it deluted 1:1 so 750mm liquid. i tried to follow the recomendations but felt pity for the poor motor of the jobo processor. so i tried the following:
i exposed two sheets with zone VIII and developed the first, alone, in 500ml (250+250) d-76 1:1. in the next run i developed a full drum of 5x7 film ( 6 sheets) in the same amount of developer. i compared the two zone VIII negativs under the densitometer and could not finde any difference in density!
i don´t want to save developer but do want to reduce the weight on the motor.

I believe that for B&W Kodak says it takes 100ml of developer per 8x10 sheet or equivalent. So 6 5x7 sheets (i.ie., 210 sq inches of film) would require 262.5 ml of developer according to Kodak. At a 1:1 mix ratio that would translate to 525ml of working solution. If my memory is correct at 100ml/8x10, then you are using too much solution in both cases.

[tgtaylor]

Correction: Too much in the first instance and "close enough" in the second.

[boris]

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/j78/j78.jhtml#004
kodak recomend 4 sheets 8x10 per liter d 76, so...125 for 1 sheet 5x7. 125x6=375ml :rolleyes:

[tgtaylor]

True for D-76 (thanks for bringing that to my attention!) but I use Xtol which requires 100ml:

The volume of diluted XTOL Developer needed to cover the film will depend on the size of your tank or tray or the design of your rotary-tube processor. However, the minimum amount of diluted developer needed to cover the film may not contain enough active ingredients to develop the film fully in the recommended time. We recommend always starting with at least 100 mL (3.5 fluidounces) of full-strength developer to prepare the diluted solution for each 135-36 or 120 roll (or the equivalent of 80 square inches [516 square centimetres]). For example, when processing 4 rolls of film with developer diluted 1:1, use at least 800 mL even if the processing equipment will allow the use of less solution.

[Keith Tapscott.]

Ilford are a bit more conservative with their advice for minimal volumes of processing solutions, but even they consider 100ml of their near identical ID-11 developer for each 135-36, 120 and 8x10 inch film-sheet as the minimum required.

[tgtaylor]

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/j78/j78.jhtml#004
kodak recomend 4 sheets 8x10 per liter d 76, so...125 for 1 sheet 5x7. 125x6=375ml :rolleyes:

Boris your math and/or your reading of it is wrong. Kodak says it takes 1L of FULL STRENGTH D-76 to process 4 sheets of 8x10. Simplifying to one sheet,

(250ml/80")*(35"/5x7)=109.4 ml of full strength D-76 per 5x7 sheet. So 6 sheets of 5x7 would require 6*(109.4)=~656ml of full strength D-76. Now add 656 ml of water to mix to 1:1.

Frankly I find that it takes 250ml of D-76 to process one roll suprising! Xtol only requires 100ml and Xtol lasts 6 months in tank with a floating lid as opposed to only one month for D-76.

Glad I happened upon this thread because I always assumed that the Xtol and D-76 requirements per roll were the same. :)

[Drew Wiley]

A generic question inevitably leads to a shotgun approach to answers. What specific
film, what specific developer, and what exact method of processing? If you're talking
drums versus trays, laminar flow, oxidation, etc all become crucial factors, not just
hypothetical chemical volume. Even in trays, thick emulsion films typically behave very
differently from thin emulsions. The size and geometry of the tray relative to the film
is also important, as well as the agitation cycle and pattern itself. When I do really fussy work, like color separation negatives for example, I use twice as much developer
for the same amount of film as ordinary black-and-white work, when dodging and burning can correct minor inconsistences center-to-edge. When in doubt, use more
developer, because an unevenly developed negative is difficult to salvage.

[boris]

sorry for the confusion... of course 125x6=750ml
but the fact remain the same. i develop 6 sheets 5x7 b/w negativs in a jobo 3006 with 250ml stock d 76 1:1 with good results.
boris.:eek: