Simplest Processing System

[Tim Meisburger]

I am (or will be) a complete beginner at processing 4x5, and live in Bangkok where it is difficult to get practical advice and equipment. I wonder what is the simplest inexpensive method to develop negatives. I've considered trays, combiplan and Peterson Orbital.

Also, I would like to be able to make contact prints, and understand that some chemicals can be used for both development and printing. Is that correct?

Thank you.

[Nick_3536]

Stop and fixer can be used for both. But you should have different bottles of at least fixer for each process. Stop is so cheap it's not a big deal to have two sets of that.

Jobo 2551 with a 2509N is the simplest. It's not the cheapest new but can be reasonable used. Trays are the cheapest.

[rwyoung]

There are some threads around here and over at APUG about using Rodinal (normally a film developer) for paper development. Also seen threads where people have used Cafinol (Folgerol, i.e. coffee developer) as both a film and paper developer.

I have tried Folgerol as a paper developer and while it did work, I didn't like the look and it stinks in an open tray! :) Rodinal as a paper developer I haven't tried. Might be fun some afternoon.

You can use plain 5% vinegar (white) as stop bath by diluting it 1 part vinegar to 3 or 4 parts water. Replace after 10 or 20 8x10s or after each film developing session. Or use an alkaline fixer like TF-4 or TF-3 and (distilled) water as your stop bath.

[Donald Miller]

Rodinal as a paper developer does not produce the dmax that conventional paper developers do.

I have used heavily diluted Dektol (1-30) for developing lith film that I used in a continuous tone masking application...not sure about pan film...never used it.

[xmishx]

I will go along with Nick to say the 2551 Jobo and accompanying reels with a motor base is amazing simple. I have had no problems loading the film onto the reels either. I've got a film changing tent where I load the film onto the reels and tank. After that, just basic measurements and timing is all that is required.

Note, I have never processed my own 4x5 film until a week ago. While the motorbase does all the work, you'll have time to prepare your next step or clean. I almost felt like I was cheating somehow!

Good luck,

Ted

[Tim Meisburger]

Thanks guys. I will look into picking up a used jobo system. Very interesting about using coffee as a developer. We have a few coffee trees at our house in Indonesia and a few years ago I cut a few down and sawed them into smallish planks. This past summer I was there and used them to build (you guessed it) a coffee table. I have it here in Bangkok, and enjoy sitting there drinking a cup of the coffee from our farm. Maybe I'l take a picture of it and try to use coffee to develop it!

[Michael Heald]

Hello! A Unicolor roller system and 8x10 tube is simple and effective, and much cheaper than a Jobo. It will also do prints. Best regards.

Michael A. Heald

[Merg Ross]

The simplest, most inexpensive method to develop negatives is tray development. This has been my method for over fifty years. I have never had a problem with uneven development or any of the problems mentioned on this forum utilizing other methods. For 4x5 I would suggest no more that twelve negatives at a time, using a presoak with a pinch of alkali. Four trays are all that you will need.

[John Kasaian]

Ansco 130 works as both a film and paper developer---that would give you only one developer instead of two. I've yet to try souping film in Ansco 130 but if you do a search john nanian explains the proper dilutions etc... I've also found that plain water is an adequate short stop for film (but not paper.) Since stop is so cheap there's hardly any reason not to use it, but if you want to super simplify you can use water instead (for film)

[Merg Ross]

For further simplification, Dektol can be used as film developer for contact printing pan film (I used it for my 8x10 film for a few years), of course also as a print developer. As John suggests, water is all that you need for a film stop bath (I have never used anything else). Keep the process as simple as you can.

When I was an Army photographer in Thailand during the 1960's, temperature was a major concern. Processing at 80 degrees may alter your procedure, but there are solutions should that be a problem.

[John Kasaian]

They stopped selling them in the US but perhaps they are still available in Asia---a product similar to the GE Guide Lamp---these were plug in nite lights that were very low voltage and OC color so they won't fog panchro film. These cost about $1 for two on a cardboard display card(they are so dim you'll probably want two anyway)

For hanging up film to dry plain old wooden clothes pins (the kind with springs) work well.

Two panes of heavy glass (1/4" or 5/8" thick) can make simple contact printing frame if you hinge one side with gaffer's tape. Make it big enough so your finger prints won't show up in the image area.

For a graduate you can substitute a plastic measuring cup used in kitchens if you can find one that will accomodate the amount of chemicals you'll be mixing and have an appropriate scale (mine say "Betty Crocker" on the side.) You can stash your clothes pin collection and nite lights inside when you aren't mixing chemicals.

If you don't have room for drying screens to dry your prints there are blotter books available. I don't know how they'd perform in a humid envirement but after you've placed your prints inside you can weigh it down with a stack of books so they'll dry flat.

A simple spring wound kitchen timer ( Sunbeam comes to mind) can certainly be put to good use---not as convenient as an electric timer for printing but it will get the job done. Mark the most used settings with bits of glow in the dark tape so you can reset it in the dark---make sure it will operate accurately at the 1 and 2 minute settings since a lot of the really cheap ones won't.

One bit of gear thats not neccessary but I find worth having simply because I find that I don't waste as much photo paper is a step tablet. Delta make one thats a copy of the old Kodak Projection Print Scale. It simplifies things for me (but I'm also a clutz!)

If you need an easel for enlarging, a flat piece of sheet steel with a few magnets work nicely.

Amber glass or plastic jugs for storing chemicals can be scrounged for free from pharmacies (or saloons) If you're going to use old whisky bottles to store chemicals make sure you mark clearly so nobody mistakes your chemistry for a beverage!

Good luck!

[Pete Watkins]

Tim,
I think that a Patterson Orbital (adjusted fof 4x5 film processing ) is the ultimate for 4x5. I use a Combiplan tank as a washer for 4x5. I've had problems with a Combiplan so I only use it as a as a washing tank ( not to mention that it uses 1 litre of fluid as opposed to the 300 ml of fluid needed to develop / stop /fix 4 sheets of 4x5 film in the Patterson,.
P

[NiallPhoto]

OK, so I posted this answer in the wrong thread.
doh.

[Brian Stein]

Are you going for a darkroom? If so, tray processing is simplest. If not Id vote for the paterson orbital with a changing tent (which is what I use). I do cyanotypes so I dont need a darkroom at all, and I need only chemicals for film and making my cyanotypes.

One key point alluded to before is temperature. If you dont have air-con to keep the room cooool some sort of cooler that you can fill with water and ice to keep temperature around 20C will make life a lot easier by keeping your emulsion firm and not needing compensation of developing times is very helpful (If you are limited to ambient temp you need to look at 'tropical' developers eg in the developing cookbook).

[Alan Davenport]

I agree that trays are probably the least expensive system.

I think hangers and tanks is probably the simplest. You might end up wasting some developer capacity if you don't shoot enough film, unless you use floating lids that seal well.

[Tim Meisburger]

Thanks guys for all this good advice. I think, if I can find one, I might try the Paterson Orbital. In the short term, I'll try trays. I don't think I can process in an air-conditioned environment with trays (I plan to use an outside storeroom), but possibly I could load the Paterson in a changing bag in the house. Not sure I could get any room down to 20 degree c, but could probably get to 22 or 23, which is cool by Bangkok standards.

Is developing around 30 degrees a problem, or merely a change in chemistry or timing?

[eli]

Here's another nod to Ansco 130 for both film and paper. Ansco can be used warmer than 20∘but you should check out the sticky thread over at Apug for more in-depth info on that aspect. I'm thinking 30∘is a bit much. What do small studios that have done in house B&W film have to share? It might behoove you to check around some for local work-throughs.
Eli

[Colin Corneau]

My advice is to not waste time getting cute with developers on both film and prints.

In just starting out, better to do it right - and make that a habit. It's really not any extra space or appreciable effort to have two bottles instead of one. It's a common piece of advice - from talented, veteran photographers - to say one should find a film and developer combo that you really get to know, inside and out.

Establish a baseline...down the line you can experiment. Best to get it right at the start.

[John Whitley]

The simplest, most inexpensive method to develop negatives is tray development.

This is true, but it's only available if you have a darkroom-like space. I'm also just getting started with 4x5 and the lack of a darkroom was a substantial short-term hurdle if I wanted to continue processing film at home (vs at a rental darkroom).

In my case, I went the route of Beseler 8x10 print drum and motor base (same style as the Unicolor drum + base). The Beseler and Unicolor motor bases and drums are available inexpensively on the used market (at least in the USA), and it's nice to be able to do daylight processing with only a changing bag.

[John Whitley]

Is developing around 30 degrees a problem, or merely a change in chemistry or timing?

I'll point you at Brian Stein's advice, above. Either cool things down or use tropical developers. For cooling, you just need a small cooler or plastic tub to use as a water bath, with some ice to bring the developer, stop, and fix down to temp. Focus on the developer being a consistent target temperature when you start, it isn't so critical if the stop and fix temps drift a bit as you process.

See also the Large Format Photography site's Unicolor drum article (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/unicolor/), which has good discussion and photos of using a unicolor drum for 4x5, with coolers to manage process temperature. The author also works with color neg. and transparency processing, which are far and away more critical than B&W.