Anyone use night vision goggle while cutting film?

[Don Hutton]

I was about to sell my night vision monocle as I have barely used it since I gave up ULF. Anyone used one of these while cutting down film? I'm just throwing some money at 5x7 and know that from time to time 5x7 color neg is unavailable - is it likely to be worth keeping? Any experience with this?

[Enrico Faini]

I occasionally cut down my film but I have never felt the need for any night vision equipment. A good quality paper cutter is all I use.

[Ash]

I'm tempted to buy night vision's if I get myself more than 100ft rolls of 35mm bulk film (or cine). I daren't drop 300ft on the floor because I can't co-ordinate or find the scissors.

I've not had to cut down large format so I can't help you there.

[john collins]

I routinely cut film on a rototrim. No need to see the process, your monocle isn't really necessary.

[Michael Kadillak]

I routinely cut film on a rototrim. No need to see the process, your monocle isn't really necessary.

WHAT?

That is precisely what the professionals use to cut film so why in hell would it not be the choice for us? If you can SEE what you are doing it is likely you just might do a better job doing it. Your eyes are a wonderful tool - use them.

Being able to physically align a film edge with a line on your Rotatrim is precision to the power of five. Don't get me started......

[IanMazursky]

I use them for cutting 9.5" & 5" aerial film down to size.
Without them i can just imagine the 500' roll, rolling down the table and onto the floor.

I am also using them to cut down some 10" x 575' rolls of Kodak Metallic paper.
I making some 10x10's, 9x10's and 10x12's for contact sheets. They look cool.
The price was good so i couldn't resist.
Without the ATN Viper it would really suck trying to cut the roll down.

[john collins]

Michael,

The only problems that I have experienced happened when I first started this process. The moveable stop on the rototrim will allow you to place the film EXACTLY for cutting. Shortly after I started to cut film, the procedure became routine and is extremely accurate. You seem to be very sure that your argument holds water when
you are obviously unaware of the aforementioned stop that can be placed anywhere one chooses precluding the operator having to hold the edge of the film on a line. The use of the moveable stop is as accurate, if not more accurate than holding the edge of the film on a line.

IF YOU HAVE A FULLY EQUIPPED ROTOTRIM NIGHT VISION EQUIPMENT IS NOT NECESSARY TO ACCURATELY CUT SHEET FILM.

[Michael Kadillak]

Michael,

The only problems that I have experienced happened when I first started this process. The moveable stop on the rototrim will allow you to place the film EXACTLY for cutting. Shortly after I started to cut film, the procedure became routine and is extremely accurate. You seem to be very sure that your argument holds water when
you are obviously unaware of the aforementioned stop that can be placed anywhere one chooses precluding the operator having to hold the edge of the film on a line. The use of the moveable stop is as accurate, if not more accurate than holding the edge of the film on a line.

IF YOU HAVE A FULLY EQUIPPED ROTOTRIM NIGHT VISION EQUIPMENT IS NOT NECESSARY TO ACCURATELY CUT SHEET FILM.

Let me put this into a risk a reward context for those that had a problem thinking through the entire process with facts.

1) Sheet film in large sizes that one uses to cut into smaller sizes is very expensive. Making a mistake could result in not properly seating the film in a holder.

2) The horizontal adjustable cutting template on my 24" and 36" Rotatrim is a lofty four inches long (wide). Yours is the exact same size. So if I am cutting a 20" sheet of film like Hellen Keller in complete darkness I have a whopping 1/5th of the length of the film physically covered on this proportion by the cutting template. Tell me about precision in this common scanario.....

3) Fact - The less you touch the emulsion of a sheet film the better. Everything that happens when you are compeltely blind when one deals with such a complicated process as trimming sheet film requires touching to adjust and correct. Not good. A sheet inadvertantly falls on the floor, you accidentially hit the film source box with your hand and it is only by trial and error touching that one corrects this problem.

4) Night Vision goggles at a bit over $200 pay for themselves in less than a month in a darkroom because you can process sheet film, load holders and trim sheet film with the accuracy that one would expect as thought they were performing these tasks with the lights on in the darkroom. The IR monocle costs less than one box of 12x20 FP4+ and the device pays dividends for years. If you have convinced to yourself that you do not need one, then good for you. But I stand behind the fact that using this device is what film companies use to accomplish the task including Ilford, Kodak and formerly Photo Warehouse.

These statements are not opinion. These are facts.

[john collins]

In fact, the OP is cutting film down to 5X7, 8X10 film is commonly used for this. My experience is in cutting 8X10 down to 5X8. My response is appropriate to these small sizes. The "adjustable cutting template" is half as long as the film in question. You are the one cutting 20" sheets of film - you didn't tell us that you were referring to such large sheets. In the circumstances that you have outlined in your previous post (the use of really large film) night vision equipment helps, I understand that. I have no problem whatsoever with the very high quality results I get from cutting film in the smaller sizes referred to by the OP.

[Wally]

Sorry to trim your enthusiasm, folks, but night vision goggles are not magical: They work by amplifying light. They rely on starlight or other faint light sources of light (the moon, a distant city's lights shining up into a clouded sky, etc), because photons still have to be winging around for them to work.

Trying to see in a room where no photons are permitted, the only thing around emitting photons is the white-green glow coming off the goggle's screens. When this light leaks out into your darkroom, you might be able to see your film fog as it happens. Talk about the measurement affecting the experiment!


// Wally

[Michael Kadillak]

Sorry to trim your enthusiasm, folks, but night vision goggles are not magical: They work by amplifying light. They rely on starlight or other faint light sources of light (the moon, a distant city's lights shining up into a clouded sky, etc), because photons still have to be winging around for them to work.

Trying to see in a room where no photons are permitted, the only thing around emitting photons is the white-green glow coming off the goggle's screens. When this light leaks out into your darkroom, you might be able to see your film fog as it happens. Talk about the measurement affecting the experiment!


// Wally

Wow. And to think of all of those college years studying physics and I could not figure this complex issue out for myself. I should ask for a refund for all of those tuition dollars that expended with nothing to show for them.

Please....

[ic-racer]

Did I miss something here? Aren't we discussing infrared imaging and the associated infrared photons?

[ic-racer]

I actually pride myself for being able to do all the required tasks in the dark with facility, but for sure when the price on these devices drops below $100, they will almost be an essential. In fact you could just illuminate your work area (or the whole darkroom!) with the IR LEDs and use goggles without a built in source.

[KOG]

Try a big toy store near you. Eye Clops Night Vision Infrared Stealth Goggles. Currently on sale for $69.99 in my city!

[Ken Lee]

"Sorry to trim your enthusiasm, folks, but night vision goggles are not magical: They work by amplifying light. They rely on starlight or other faint light sources of light (the moon, a distant city's lights shining up into a clouded sky, etc), because photons still have to be winging around for them to work.

Trying to see in a room where no photons are permitted, the only thing around emitting photons is the white-green glow coming off the goggle's screens. When this light leaks out into your darkroom, you might be able to see your film fog as it happens. Talk about the measurement affecting the experiment!"

The goggles you describe, which rely on starlight and other low-level ambient illumination, are rather expensive. They are later generation designs, used by defense forces, etc.

The devices we use, are of the first generation: they have a small lamp on top, which projects IR light. They may not be much good for the military, but they're perfect for the darkroom, and much more affordable. Mine is just a monocular.

These devices also have a rubber eye-cup, so that no visible light leaks into the room. I have never noticed any fogging.

Think of these things as 21st century portable safelights, for b&w film. They really are "the greatest thing", as they say, "since sliced bread".