Horseman woodman 45, Tachihara or Osaka

[eivind]

Hi.

I have been reading too much lately regarding which large format camera (4 x 5") I should or should not buy. So I hope someone here will be nice enough to give me a decent answer, based on facts and possibly experiences.

1. What is the difference between Tachihara and Osaka? Is Osaka a new updated version?
Choose one for me please..

2. Will Horseman woodman 45 be a better choice (if I am looking for a camera in the same class and are not really into Cherry=)

3. I will be using the 4x5 mainly for portraits and landscapes. Will you recommend me the best lenses for this? This is where I will put the money..

I thank all of you kindly and hope to get some answers before too long.

Eivind S, Norway

[Howard Tanger]

Hi. ...
1. What is the difference between Tachihara and Osaka? Is Osaka a new updated version?...
Eivind S, Norway

I have heard that the Osaka is a rebranded Tachihara. I have a 5x7 Osaka and it is a decent camera> Howard

[Kuzano]

When I was shopping for a Tachihara, I confirmed that the Osaka was a Tachihara. Also, I could easily be corrected, but I also believe that Tachihara built the Woodman for Horseman. If you look very closely at the hardware, I suspect it is the same.

A Tachihara is a very good camera and will probably hold resale better, simply because of the abundance and awareness factor. Some say the Tachihara/Osaka/Woodman are a bit wobbly which is the tradeoff for being a light field camera. I had a Shen Hao, which was sturdier than the Tachihara, but at twice the weight, being about 6.5 pounds. So, the Tachihara variation usually ends up being the choice for backpackers. However, a Tachi has more limited back movements than a Shen Hao. Let me say that by wobbly, I don't mean that derogatorily. If you take hold of the top of the front standard for instance and move it, it will move more easily than the twice as heavy Shen Hao. However, a Tachi locks down nicely and holds position for shooting quite well.

In short, of the three cameras you mentioned, I think you are looking at roughly the same camera, so buy the one in the best condition if that's important.

In the meantime, if you want to see what an accomplished photographer can do with a Tachihara, all the pictures on this site were shot with a Tachi and Bruce has used the same Tachihara and three lenses and Fuji Velvia 50 exclusively for many years. His Tachi may well be 20 years old. He backpacks into some very rugged countrly

www.brucejacksonphotography.com

Have fun!!!

[Brian Ellis]

The Tachihara, Osaka, and Calumet Woodfield are identical cameras, all made by Tachihara. However, I don't believe the Horseman is a Tachihara, I believe it's a different though similar camera.

Tachiharas are fine cameras, I've owned two that I used for a total of about four years. However, IMHO the Chamonix is more camera for not much more money and was my choice for my last 4x5 camera.

I don't do portraits so others can comment on lenses for that. For landscapes a 90mm lens is a good place to start if you're into wide angles. Otherwise something in the 150/210mm range works well. It's really difficult to generalize because it depends on how you "see." FWIW, I carried 4 lenses for landscapes, an 80 or a 90mm, a 150, 210, and 300. I'm not a lens freak, some here are and they probably have better thoughts. To me the most important thing is just to buy something, almost anything from 75mm to 300mm for landscapes, and get to work.

[Oren Grad]

In general construction and in hardware details the Woodman 45 is a much closer match to a late-model Nagaoka than it is to a Tachihara. But I don't know who actually makes it.

My guess is that the Phillips-like design of the Chamonix will make it distinctly more rigid than either the Woodman or the Tachihara, at comparable weight. Perhaps Brian or someone else here who has owned the Chamonix as well as one of the others can comment on that point specifically.

[Don Hutton]

I've owned both a Tachihara and a Chamonix - the Chamonix, as Oren suggested, is more rigid by design. The folding front standard is simply a less rigid design - that doesn't make it unusable though - the Tachihara is a great little camera. I simply think that in terms of features for the money, nothing come close to the Chamonix. I'm a big fan - I have a 4x5 and 8x10 and actually just ordered a 5x7 Chamonix which seems like a scaled up version of the 4x5 except the cost jumps up a lot.

If you're considering portraits, I'd definitely pick the Chamonix every time - it has significantly more bellows extension (about 360mm which would likely be really useful) and is much more rigid at full extension or close to full extension than the other cameras you mention.

I'd look around for an older 210mm f4.5 Xenar as a starting lens - they're pretty cheap, very nice wide open for portraiture with a decent amount of "character", bright and easy to focus and very sharp when stopped down for conventional shooting. That focal lengh should be accommodated by the bellows extension on those cameras for most purposes.

[Frank Petronio]

A more rigid camera is especially good for portraits because you want to be able to move quickly. The Tachis are by all means very usable, but sometimes you need to take a few extra seconds and pay greater attention to loading the film holder because it is a bit flimsier.

[Alan Davenport]

I believe Calumet may have had more than one supplier for what they called their "Wood Field." Mine is a Calumet Wood Field XM and it is definitely a Tachihara. I've been told that Calumet also sold Zone VI cameras as wood fields at one point, though I've not confirmed it.

[eivind]

Hi to you all, and thank you a lot for all replies! I have been reading even more, and from what you suggest, I see that the Chamonix 4x5 might be even better for me! Now, I suddenly realised I can spend a little more money on good lenses. Now, where can I buy the Chamonix 4x5 new for 700 USD? And which lenses are top notch for portraits.. how about extra gear? Cloth, film cassettes and so on.. great to get this answers! Thanx =)

[Brian Ellis]

I believe Calumet may have had more than one supplier for what they called their "Wood Field." Mine is a Calumet Wood Field XM and it is definitely a Tachihara. I've been told that Calumet also sold Zone VI cameras as wood fields at one point, though I've not confirmed it.

Could be but during the period of my Calumet catalogs (roughly 1990 - 2000) they were selling Zone VI cameras as Zone VI and Calumet Wood Fields (i.e. Tachiharas at a higher price than Tachiharas) as Calumet Wood Fields, i.e. two different cameras. Since a Zone VI is a very different camera from a Calumet Wood Field/Tachihara I'd be surprised if they sold a Zone VI as a Calumet Woodfield.

With respect to rigidity of the Tachihara compared to the Chamonix, I always found Tachiharas to be plenty rigid so I didn't notice any major difference between them in that respect. But the Chamonix has a longer bellows, front axis tilt, shift, and a bunch of other things that the Tachihara lacks and that I've now forgotten. Plus they weigh about the same. So for a difference of about $200 I preferred the Chamonix.

[Brian Ellis]

Hi to you all, and thank you a lot for all replies! I have been reading even more, and from what you suggest, I see that the Chamonix 4x5 might be even better for me! Now, I suddenly realised I can spend a little more money on good lenses. Now, where can I buy the Chamonix 4x5 new for 700 USD? And which lenses are top notch for portraits.. how about extra gear? Cloth, film cassettes and so on.. great to get this answers! Thanx =)

Do a search here using "Chamonix." You'l find all the information you need about where to buy one and everything else you need to know about them. I'm not sure $700 is still the price, it's fluctuated (gone up) since they were first introduced.

[eivind]

Ok. So I decided to buy the Chamonix, but really can't find it any place when looking for it. Anyone who knows a safe dealer that sell it NEW, and that will ship to Norway, Europe - where I live at the moment ? How about lenses ? Sharpest possible.. wide and portrait.. suggestions ? Thank you all

[eivind]

Nice Brian - thanx

[Vaughn]

The Horseman Woodman field camera is a much different beast than the Tarhihara or any camera ever marketed by Calumet.

The Horseman is well made, but has the same limitations as the Tachihara when compared to the Chamonix. The Horseman is a nice light camera -- simple design (less to break) and solid.

I take care of and check out the photo equipment at a university. Besides the standard Calumet rail cameras, we have Tachihara and Horseman Woodman field cameras. Student use, which is harder on equipment than personal use (unfamilularity and non-ownership being the reasons) has shown me that the Tachihara is not as well made as the Horseman...both in construction and hardware. But with normal care, the Tachihara should last a lifetime.

Vaughn

PS...any modern lens will be as sharp as one needs. To get any jump in noticable image quality by buying the absolute best possible lens will make the cost of the camera itself seem like peanuts. And even the best possible lens will not create the best possible print if the rest of the process is not equally high quality (enlarger and lens, or scanner/printer, etc). A search here will give you endless discussions on lenses -- brands, models, focal lengths -- and their image circle, etc.. It is important to envision what type of image you want to make, then find a lens to match that vision. For example, the terms "sharpest possible" and "portrait" for many photographers do not go together...unless one wants to count the pores on their face.

[eivind]

Vaughn. Thank you for your opinions. I use an Imacon scanner at the moment, and I also use a Sinar at school. I am used to fixing pores in photoshop, and are aware of the fact that it can be too sharp at times. Still, I am aiming for fine art in the future. What would be appropriate if not too sharp, still perfect for portraits..? Also, I am really careful with my equipment, not like many other students ;) so will not be an issue for me :) thanx a lot - Eivind

[eivind]

Also, what is the full name on the Chamonix 4x5 ? I can't find it anywhere.. at least not for sale for 700 dollars ..

[Vaughn]

Vaughn. Thank you for your opinions. I use an Imacon scanner at the moment, and I also use a Sinar at school. I am used to fixing pores in photoshop, and are aware of the fact that it can be too sharp at times. Still, I am aiming for fine art in the future. What would be appropriate if not too sharp, still perfect for portraits..? Also, I am really careful with my equipment, not like many other students ;) so will not be an issue for me :) thanx a lot - Eivind

Opinions...I am full of it, I mean, full of them.

A general rule of thumb for portraits would be a longer than "normal" lens -- for 4x5, perhaps around 210mm. Used Caltar lenses (the f5.6 variety), if available in Europe, are excellent value as they are re-branded Rodenstocks (Apo-Sironar-N, I believe) and sometimes the older ones are Schneiders. Nikon W lenses would also be fine. The Copol shutters are dependable workhorses. But for the price the used Caltars are hard to beat.

Note...the Caltar II-E lenses are their budget line...good lenses, but you seem to want the next step up. The Caltar II-N are the recent Rodenstock lenses, while the Caltar -S are the Schneiders.

Vaughn

[orlandus]

Ok. So I decided to buy the Chamonix, but really can't find it any place when looking for it. Anyone who knows a safe dealer that sell it NEW, and that will ship to Norway, Europe - where I live at the moment ? How about lenses ? Sharpest possible.. wide and portrait.. suggestions ? Thank you all

In France:

http://www.taosphotographic.com/