drop bed issue on master technika w/ 75mm lens

[shannaford]

Hi all - hoping you'll be able to offer some advice to a relative newcomer trying to figure out best way to focus a 75mm lens on a master technika.
I'm having an issue with the drop bed getting in the way. To achieve inifity focus, I get the drop bed in the image when folded out flat, so following Linhof's instructions I've tried to lower the drop bed a notch and then tilt the lens back, while using a few cranks of rise to get everything level again.
While this solves the 'drop bed in the image' problem, it takes the lens too far away from the GG to allow me to focus on infinity! I have tried sliding the bed rail backwards into the camera body, but that doesn't seem to go quite far enough. For info, I've got the lens mounted in a 19mm recessed lens board, and given this camera is supposed to work with lenses down to 72mm without extra gadgets, I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong! Any thoughts greatly appreciated. Thanks,

[David A. Goldfarb]

Are you sliding the standard back or are you sliding the rail back? If the lens is at the infinity point when the bed is in the flat position, you should be pretty close to infinity (likely you will be exactly at infinity) when you drop the bed one notch and then slide the top rail back until it clicks into the stop. To release the rail, push the appropriate tab on the side of the rail. I've owned two 75mm lenses (75/8 Super-Angulon and 75/4.5 Grandagon-N) and both have worked on my Tech V this way.

[shannaford]

Thanks David, I'm using a 75/4.5 Grandagon too. I was finding when open flat, that i was almost having to move the standard back into the rail inside the camera (ie off the end of the drop bed rail) to get it to infinity, but I'll have another play with it this afternoon and see if I can't make this technique work.
Cheers,
Scott

[LeoK]

Hi,

I was wondering the same thing. I have the same problem, with the same lens, but with a Tech V.
Thanks to your question I just tried again.
I noticed 2 things:
1.
It seems that to move the lens closer to the filmplane, one has to push the lensboard back while squeezing the levers under the lensboard. One has to push so far back that the lensboard that it is s not completely covering the rail.
2. While pushing it so far back I noticed that ths left side could not be pushed as far back as the right side. I then noticed that the back of the lever that is used for rising the lens board was touching a part of the folding mechanism (the thing that pushes the tab against the stop).
3. It is possble to circumvent this blockage by shifting just a few millimeters (I'am an Euro man) to the right. (right=looking in the direction the lens is viewing). Then it is very well possible to reach infinty.

Hope this helps (it helped me anyway)

[David A. Goldfarb]

The rise lever should not interfere with the lug for the strut, and you shouldn't have to shift to make it work. If you do, the lever is probably not in the neutral position.

I just checked my camera, and with the bed flat (first photo), the standard should be securely on the rail, a little farther back than for a 150mm lens, with the top rail in the retracted position. With the bed dropped one notch (second photo), you would need to move the standard back so it's a bit off the rail even with the rail in the retracted position, but it should still be gripping the rail securely.

[LeoK]

Yes David you're right,

I forgot to mention that what I wrote applied to the situation with the bed lowered.
Maybe my camera is a bit faulty, is is second hand and not serviced.
To illustrate I took a picture of the scene.
The green arrow points to the part of the dropbed mechanism that hinders the pushing back of the lensbord, It touches the rise lever (red arrow).
With a shift of a few millimeters (yellow arrow) it cleares the dropbed mechanism.
I guess the best thing is to have the infinity stops properly adjusted, so that parallelism is ensured. The stops that are in place seem to be for a longer lens, maybe 90 mm.

[Brian Ellis]

Thanks David, I'm using a 75/4.5 Grandagon too. I was finding when open flat, that i was almost having to move the standard back into the rail inside the camera (ie off the end of the drop bed rail) to get it to infinity, but I'll have another play with it this afternoon and see if I can't make this technique work.
Cheers,
Scott

When using a 90mm lens and also an 80mm lens I always pushed the drop bed rail back so that it abutted the rail inside my Tech V and Master Technika cameras. That prevented the lens from hanging over or falling off the drop bed rail and also gave more room in which to move the lens back. I never had any trouble focusing at infinity with those two lenses.

[David A. Goldfarb]

LeoK--It might be that the guide for the strut is a little bent. I had this problem on mine, which I also bought second hand. I sent it to Marflex, which is the US service shop for Linhof, and had it repaired along with some other things. From the Netherlands, I'd guess you would send it to the factory.

[shannaford]

Thanks all, your pics and advice are a great help. Had a close look at things last night and without going into too much detail, found the previous owner had bent (I have no idea how!) the metal grip on the underside of the front standard, the one that goes slack and allows you to slide the standard when you squeeze the two buttons together. He had even managed to break a chunk of the rail on the otherside off, but there remains enough to work - just (I may have to address this in the future).
I - very gingerly and carefully - bent the grip back a touch, and it seemed to solve the issue I was having.
To get the lens to focus(while the bed is dropped one notch), I also find I have to hang the standard slightly off the back of the rail, even when the rail is slid back. Because of the damage, the standard wasn't gripping at the front while slightly off the end of the rail, which is why it was moving around and driving me nuts when I tried to focus (essentially the back was doing all the gripping).
Anyway, I'm reassured I'm not the only one who has to slide the standard back so far (I thought it was a little wierd having the standard hang off the end like that, but it seems reasonably stable now the grip is secure).
The other 'ah ha!' moment I had yesterday was just using a bit of front rise on its own while the drop bed is flat. Couple of cranks lifts the drop bed out of the image area. Sure, it may change the perspective of the shot somewhat, but if it still looks OK it's a lot less fuss to go to than trying to drop the rail etc.
Cheers,
Scott

[LeoK]

David--the guide for the strut seem project more inwards one the affected side than the other side. However, it seems not bend.
Also, the copper spacer (red arrow) at the base of the rise lever seems to me thicker than needed:
the lever clears the side of the lensboard holder 3-4mm.
Is the copper spacer also as thick with your camera?

thanks in advance

[David A. Goldfarb]

Leo, it looks just like it does on my camera, but your lens is pushed back farther than mine is at the infinity point. If you look at the second attachment I posted, you can see that my front standard is about a 5-10mm forward of where you have it, and I think we established that we are using the same lens.

I'm wondering if maybe my recessed lensboard is deeper, or maybe you have a spacer between the lensboard and the shutter, and that is why you need to push the standard back farther than I do, and it is a tight squeeze there between the rise lever and the strut guide, so I could see how it would interfere.

Linhof provided recessed lensboards with different spacers for different focal lengths, and if the camera is set up right with the correct lensboards and spacers for each lens, it is often the case that two lenses can be shimmed to share one set of infinity stops with the rail in the recessed position for the wider lens, like a 150 and a 90 or a 135 and 75.

[adrian tyler]

how do you assure that the lens is parallel to the film plane when the bed is dropped and thelens swung back, is there any trick? or do you have to "guesstimate" by eye and on the gg?

thanks

[David A. Goldfarb]

On the Tech V, if you drop the bed one notch and tilt back all the way, the standards will be parallel. You could check it with a 90-degree level to be sure, but it's designed that way.

[adrian tyler]

thanks david.

[LeoK]

Wow, thanks David, that helps!
I didn't know that of the different spacers.
It could be that the spacer puts the lens too far in front of the lensboard (away from the film plane), making in fact the the lensboard not recessed enough fot the 75mm.
I took 2 pictures of the lensboard with a "rolmaat" (I dont't know the English word) next to it.

[David A. Goldfarb]

It looks like what we call a "tape measure."

Yes, I think that's the issue. My lensboard doesn't have a spacer, and yours does.

[Peter K]

It could be that the spacer puts the lens too far in front of the lensboard (away from the film plane), making in fact the the lensboard not recessed enough fot the 75mm.
Almost all recessed lensboards where equipped with a distance piece. If the lens is mounted without the spacer the shutter could not used properly. Specially with the shutter size #00 one could not mount a cable-release.

But a 75mm lens can also be used with a flat lensboard on a Technika 4x5".

[LeoK]

It looks like what we call a "tape measure."

Yes, I think that's the issue. My lensboard doesn't have a spacer, and yours does.

Thanks David

[LeoK]

Almost all recessed lensboards where equipped with a distance piece. If the lens is mounted without the spacer the shutter could not used properly. Specially with the shutter size #00 one could not mount a cable-release.

But a 75mm lens can also be used with a flat lensboard on a Technika 4x5".

I think I' am a bit confused now.....

[David A. Goldfarb]

If you look at mine, it doesn't have a spacer. There is a 45-degree cable release attachment on the other side of the lens, which is not visible in the photo, but lacking that, a Gepe flexible cable release adapter will fit with a 0 or 00 shutter inside a Linhof recessed lensboard. Also, the knob on the shutter cocking lever has been ground down on one side so that it can move freely inside the recess.

The controls are not necessarily easy to reach, but I have thin fingers, so it works for me. Some people do things like using a pencil to push the levers. Linhof makes a new style lensboard with extenders for the controls, if you want to go all out.

[Peter K]

I think I' am a bit confused now.....
Why? At my left my Technika 4x5" looks at infinity with a SA 75mm, mounted on a flat lensboard. :)

Peter K

[Peter K]

Is the copper spacer also as thick with your camera?
There is no copper spacer at a Technika V, so your camera should be "repaired" in the wrong way.

[LeoK]

There is no copper spacer at a Technika V, so your camera should be "repaired" in the wrong way.

Peter, to be honest I don't know for sure if it is a spacer or even if it's made from copper. There is a "thing" that seems to make the lever stick out a bit more to the side than maybe is necessary. To clarify, here is an other picture from the rear.

[Peter K]

Leo, it looks like the "thing" is a litte bit too thick. The whole axis is mounted with two screws at the standard and the "thing" is only a cover. Possible it was changed with a "repair" action. As I know the axis together with toothed wheels and ratched is "one item". But to be shure your camera works properly, send your camera to the factory for cleaning, repairing and aligment.

[David A. Goldfarb]

That spacer looks pretty similar to mine on my Tech V, except mine is two pieces. It could be that yours is slightly too thick, and that is causing the abrasion you're getting.

[Rafael Macia]

Hi,
I had a 75mm SA, at one time, and when using it on my Master simply jacked up the front standard a bit until it cleared the bed. I did not bother trying to drop the bed. Seemed more convenient that way.
Rafael